do we take our personal saftey for granted?

[Wirelock]

there are very real and present dangers in our jobs as engineers, technicians and mechanics. but do we not take safety seriously enough.??
examples... getting sucked into engines, falling from height without harness on..etc etc.
my own opinion is no... its very easy to not take the time to put on a harness or obey all safety procedures. we are paying with our lives or serious injury and for what??? an on time departure or maybe laziness....its crazy!!

[bucket_and_spade]

What mitchaa said.

Shame the Americanised politicians and lawyers don't agree

B&S

[cessna24]

Thats why in the UK, all engineering personel must be Human Factors course trained before they can work on aircraft.
And most companys have health and safety awareness notices regualy posted round.

Regards

c24

[SNS3Guppy]

I'm very big on safety glasses. I keep a respirator in my toolbox, and even if I'm just wiping a part down with MEK, I put it on. I never used gloves in the past in the solvent tank, but over the years I've found that I've become a lot more sensitive to chemicals, with exposure...now I do when I've got gloves...though I still often use simple solvents and fuels without them.

I don't often get up on scaffolding or tall stands any more, and the most I use is a ladder. No sense a harness with a ladder in most cases, but I am careful, and I've used webbing to lash the ladder to an engine mount or structure when working outside in the wind.

I've known a number of individuals who have been injured on the job, who might not have been, if they'd exercised more common sense and used the proper protective equipment, and measures.

I'd love to have a cage for wheels, and other such equipment, but I don't...so I work carefully and take my time. I think the single most common offense I see so far as safety goes is failure to wear eye protection. Very small cost and effort to keep a set of eyes that need to last a lifetime, I think.

[blackhand]

Well said SNS3Guppy use of eye protection in the workshop would have to be the most important issue for safety.
Another similar issue,but of longer term deterioration is aural protectors
Loss of hearing is insidious, especially around turbine and jet engines whilst they are running.

[ericferret]

Wirelock actually makes a good point.

An example is being asked to work on top of a DASH 8 tailplane with no harness and scafolding only on the leading edge. I refused, up steps macho man to do the job stating that in his previous job they always went on top of the tailplanes especially in winter when they had to clear snow off them!!!!!!

Same company working on the wings doing a spoiler cable change, chief engineer gets cleaners to wash the wings and looks surprised when we refused to continue on the slippy suface.

Human factors training might tell you about possible dangers, but I see engineers using dodgy ground equipment all the time.

Interesting that one major uk companies HF instructor can't get management to attend his courses. So the people responsible for safety cant be arsed to attend the training.

A lot of HF training seems to be about putting a tick in the box so that when someone is injured management can point the finger and say that that person was aware of the risks and therefore most of the fault lies with them. Crap working practices, excessive hours, working during the bodies low points and dangerous ground equipment are still common place in the UK and nobody really seems to care.

[MATMAX]

Guys,
Can you please stop talking about UK as a perfect model (mostly about HF) ?
Dont you know what is going on in other countries ?
HF are valid for all EASA one and even for the one who are sticking on it ...
In France , the Law limits you to work 8 hours a day and not 12 like in some other countries maybe there is a reason for it ( I am not talking about overtime ) ... HF , maybe.
I get the feeling that Wirelock just lost somebody important for him or maybe he has been seriously injured himself.
Wirelock , talk about it with your collegues if you are not working alone.
Salut.

[SNS3Guppy]

Loss of hearing is insidious, especially around turbine and jet engines whilst they are running.

Too often I think we perceive engine noise and a few other sources of noise to be hazards, but overlook the most common areas in on our own shop floor.

I find that using an air nozzle to dry a part after a solvent bath merits both eye protection and ear protection. I have no idea what the decibel level is around the air nozzle, but it's loud.

I carry a pair of shooting earmuffs ("defenders") when doing engine runs or anything else that makes noise in the shop, even though I also use foam ear plugs. Long ago someone explained to me that even with earplugs in, the bones around the ear canal can transmit vibrations that we don't interpret as sound, but which can cause damage to hearing. I've already got enough hearing loss that I don't feel I can spare more, and the ringing in my ears never really goes away. Sometimes in a quiet room, I hear crickets...that sort of thing. Too many radial engines and loud noises.

Eyes and ears...they don't come back, just like fingers and toes.

[Bus429]

hats why in the UK, all engineering personel must be Human Factors course trained before they can work on aircraft.
And most companys have health and safety awareness notices regualy posted round.

Regards

c24

Only under Part 145

[Wirelock]

thanks for the replies. its clear to me from your responses that you all have seen people disregarding their safety. personally i know of 2 people that have died. one was in Joramco , a 22 year old who fell from the stab of an A310 while removing the leading edge... a harness would have saved his life. also at europe aviation in paris last weekend another who fell from a lifter. i myself was inches from death/serious injury when a mechanic closed a A320 mlg door while i was in the wheel well. we all can recognize HF in our job but how come we all know the dangers but refuse to acknowledge them

[ericferret]

While working at an overseas maintenance facilty an engineer was crushed against an APU when he leant on the operating lever while working. The safety system was inoperative. His breathing and heart stopped, he was saved by the timely intervention of his workmates.

On returning to my home base where we had an identical piece of equipment I found it had the same fault. Response from the shift supervisor "It's been like that for weeks"!!!!!!!

At least the overseas guys were unaware of the fault. No excuse for continuing to operate the equipment with a known fault.

[BAe146s make me cry]

In Exeter's H21 recently, there was an incident with an RJ. Opening airbrakes and a genie lifter around the v-stab area. The one bloke involved very luckily positioned himself on the a/c whilst the genie went from vertical to horizontal.

Lessons learnt? Not sure... Airbrake CTL CB now pulled AND tagged.
Is that enough? Only time will tell.

Some clowns still race up to the front and start Hyd ACMPs without
prior warnings to other staff - now that really pisses me off

I'm personally not immune to making mistakes. I've made plenty.
I'm certain I've learnt from those luckily. The one's to watch out
for are those that profess an error free unblemished record-liars!

Simply work to the AMM slowy, heed warnings and exercise good judgement. A good place to start? - Teamwork..

BAe146???

[WOTME?]

I'm personally not immune to making mistakes. I've made plenty.
I'm certain I've learnt from those luckily. The one's to watch out
for are those that profess an error free unblemished record-liars!

Years ago someone told me this & I've lived by it ever since:
You're only as good as your last f**k up.

[Capot]

To clarify who, in an EASA Part 145-approved MRO, must attend HF training, look no further than the AMC. My bold highlights.

In respect to the understanding of the application of human factors and human performance issues, maintenance, management, and quality audit personnel should be assessed for the need to receive Initial human factors training, but in any case all maintenance, management, and quality audit personnel should receive human factors continuation training. This should concern to a minimum:
-Post-holders, managers, supervisors;
-Certifying staff, technicians, and mechanics;
-Technical support personnel such as, planners, engineers, technical record staff;
-Quality control/assurance staff;
-Specialised services staff;
-Human factors staff/ human factors trainers;
-Store department staff, purchasing department staff;
-Ground equipment operators;
-Contract staff in the above categories.

How many ground handling contractor staff have carried out HF?

[Dual ground]

MATMAX, nowhere other than France have I seen personel involved with aircraft maintenance drinking alcohol at lunchtime in company break rooms. Hardly in accordance with with best HF practises I would say....

[MATMAX]

Dual ground,
I totally agree with you.
Some guys of the oldest generations used to have some wine during their lunchtime because it is in the French culture to drink wine during dinner.
Also all doctors are saying that a glass of wine is good for your health ...
Sorry if some of my previous remarks had hurt you .
Are you working in France ?
Cheers.

[Dual ground]

MATMAX, no I am not working in France at this moment, I witnessed this last year at Orly.

I assure you that I was in no way hurt or offended by your remarks. Unfortunately no country is a perfect example when it comes to HF, it it was it would most likely be accident free.

France's restriction on working hours reduces the risk of fatigue, but the consumption of alcohol in the workplace increases the risk of incidents. In Britain consumption of alcohol in the workplace would most likely lead to dismissal, but we continue to allow long work hours, increasing the risk of fatigue related incidents or accidents.

Ultimately no amount of legislation can replace good old fashioned common sense and a healthy regard for your own safety and limits.

[HAWK21M]

Rules are in place & safety measures are there to prevent a mishap.One has to ensure the rules are followed.

[Dodo56]

Worth note is research by a gentleman called Frank Bird who observed some 2 million accidents with the conclusion that for every major (fatal) accident there are:
- 10 minor (injury)
- 30 property damage (FOD?)
- 600 near miss

And below this thousands of unsafe behaviours. All it takes is for an unbroken chain of events from an unsafe behaviour to a major accident and there but for the grace of god....

As much as industrial health and safety may be derided by some old hands and sneered at by the ignorant as "political correctness gone mad" or some such, it matters to all of us to be aware of the unsafe behaviours that can lead to disaster in the blink of an eye and remember that common sense and experience can only go so far to protect us. Those pesky H&S procedures matter folks.