A&P Licence
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I did mine about 8 years ago and it took me 5 days in an A&P school in Dallas, Texas (Not ACME, the school I went to was quite small and AFAIK the owner closed it a few years ago after he retired). The reason was that I was (already a B1 at the time) working for a company, which had a maintenance contract for an American airline.
If you are not an American citizen or resident in the US, the biggest obstacle will be to provide a letter stating that you, as a foreigner, require an FAA licence to service N-registered aircraft. This letter has to come from the operator or the maintenance company and it is even better if it states that there is no American citizen available to do the job. Fortunately I got one from the wellknown American freight airline, which was accepted by the FAA field rep during the preliminary interview (which was also used to check my ability to speak, read and write English).
If you are not an American citizen or resident in the US, the biggest obstacle will be to provide a letter stating that you, as a foreigner, require an FAA licence to service N-registered aircraft. This letter has to come from the operator or the maintenance company and it is even better if it states that there is no American citizen available to do the job. Fortunately I got one from the wellknown American freight airline, which was accepted by the FAA field rep during the preliminary interview (which was also used to check my ability to speak, read and write English).
Last edited by MD11Engineer; 18th Apr 2009 at 17:45.
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Im not a engineer so could not comment on the technical issues but i do know as someone in the recruitment game that holders of UK and Australian issued engineer licences appear to be held in the highest regard world wide, whilst the A@P certificate is regarded as something of a joke, whether this justified or not i wouldnt like to say but that is how it is.
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Im not a engineer so could not comment on the technical issues but i do know as someone in the recruitment game that holders of UK and Australian issued engineer licences appear to be held in the highest regard world wide, whilst the A@P certificate is regarded as something of a joke, whether this justified or not i wouldnt like to say but that is how it is.
I work as a mechanic for an airline in the US that has more flights and more planes than BA and Qantas combined and we operate boeing, MD Douglas, Airbus, Canadair and Embraer jets and yet me and my coworkers do a pretty good job at keeping our planes safely in the air.
You see, you people with your B1 and B2 can call A/P and A/P license holders any kind of names you want however I know one thing, when it comes to aircraft maintenance I'm has good has anybody else anywhere in world.
Anyway I'm tired now, I just finished return to service an airplane that just Took off for 15 hour flight to the middle east with about 245 souls on board. Not bad for somebody who has a license that some of you call a joke.
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so at last i got to know that it doesnt matters how much maintenance experience u r having but till your company dont have N register aircraft u cant appear for a+p .well its not with easa licence which is good thing.and guys just want to know that in usa its a and p and in europe its easa and in asia its icao then which one in africa and antartica?
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so at last i got to know that it doesnt matters how much maintenance experience u r having but till your company dont have N register aircraft u cant appear for a+p .well its not with easa licence which is good thing.and guys just want to know that in usa its a and p and in europe its easa and in asia its icao then which one in africa and antartica?
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Well, IMO, the A&P licence doesn't go as much in depth as the EASA (or even more the CAA, LBA or IAA, which I had before the EASA licence, licence), but is spread out more.
E.g. while the European licences are pretty restricted to aircraft categories, but demand a large amount of knowledge within this category, the A&P system demands a lot, but not very deep knowledge about the whole range, e.g. I had to learn stuff all the way from wooden, fabric covered glider repair, via WW2 era piston engines and props, helicopters to turbine engines and heavy jets, plus avionics (no seperation between A&C and X, or B1 and B2 licence in their system).
The European system is more specialised, but demands more knowledge within the speciality.
From my experience, the Irish IAA exams (which are based on the British CAA system) were much harder than the A&P exams. The written exams were essay type exams, lasting about 2 hours for each category (airframe, gas turbine engines, electrics, general and air legislation), with typical questions like: "Describe in detail (with drawings, if necessary) the lubrication system of a turbine engine of your choice" or "Explain in detail the internal workings of a static inverter unit". Also, the Irish disn't publish exam questions.
Then, after you have passed the written exam for a category, you were invited to the IAA headquarters in Dublin and grilled for one hour by two examiners during an oral exam. They had the written results in front of them and were poking for weak areas in your knowledge. These exams definitely left youi feel wrung out and covered in sweat.
The multiple choice A&P was much easier for me (I don't know about the EASA exams, never did any of them, since I had my old Irish licence grandfathered into a B1 licence).
The practical exam for the A&P was a joke, ok, I already had years of aircraft experience behind me at this time (though most of uit on heavy metal) and a German apprenticeship is quite thorough on hands on experience and workmanship as well.
Concerning the A&P oral exam, I thought it would never end. Later I discovered that the lady examiner read the whole list of questions to me, but the questions themselves were pretty easy and could be easily solved with a bit of common sense.
E.g. while the European licences are pretty restricted to aircraft categories, but demand a large amount of knowledge within this category, the A&P system demands a lot, but not very deep knowledge about the whole range, e.g. I had to learn stuff all the way from wooden, fabric covered glider repair, via WW2 era piston engines and props, helicopters to turbine engines and heavy jets, plus avionics (no seperation between A&C and X, or B1 and B2 licence in their system).
The European system is more specialised, but demands more knowledge within the speciality.
From my experience, the Irish IAA exams (which are based on the British CAA system) were much harder than the A&P exams. The written exams were essay type exams, lasting about 2 hours for each category (airframe, gas turbine engines, electrics, general and air legislation), with typical questions like: "Describe in detail (with drawings, if necessary) the lubrication system of a turbine engine of your choice" or "Explain in detail the internal workings of a static inverter unit". Also, the Irish disn't publish exam questions.
Then, after you have passed the written exam for a category, you were invited to the IAA headquarters in Dublin and grilled for one hour by two examiners during an oral exam. They had the written results in front of them and were poking for weak areas in your knowledge. These exams definitely left youi feel wrung out and covered in sweat.
The multiple choice A&P was much easier for me (I don't know about the EASA exams, never did any of them, since I had my old Irish licence grandfathered into a B1 licence).
The practical exam for the A&P was a joke, ok, I already had years of aircraft experience behind me at this time (though most of uit on heavy metal) and a German apprenticeship is quite thorough on hands on experience and workmanship as well.
Concerning the A&P oral exam, I thought it would never end. Later I discovered that the lady examiner read the whole list of questions to me, but the questions themselves were pretty easy and could be easily solved with a bit of common sense.
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I certainly wasnt implying A and p holders are any less able than anyone else, im only saying that it isnt generally held in high regard as a qualification where as some other licences are, for eg UK and AUS issued licences
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Two different philosophies regarding certification. FAA is intentionally broad and relies on industry for weeding out those not capable, the methodology is efficient and effective. The dispatch reliability and safety records of carriers maintained by those with "highly regarded" maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.
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Ferrydude,
do you want to back that up with numbers?
or just amount of number of aircraft grounded due to non-compliance to mandatory inspections?
do you want to back that up with numbers?
or just amount of number of aircraft grounded due to non-compliance to mandatory inspections?
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Ferrydude,
What’s with the evasive answer? I asked a simple question, “Do you want to back that up with numbers?” you say, “absolutely, prove me wrong.”
So where are your numbers, come on how can I prove you wrong if you’re not going to justify your big bold claim?
Tell you what lets keep things fair I’ll go first:
You said: “[The] safety records of carriers maintained by those with "highly regarded" maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics. ”
I said, as stated above:
“Do you want to back that up with numbers?”
You said, well we’ve been through that, you didn’t…
Iata say: “North Asia had a perfect record of zero hull losses in 2008. North America (0.58), Europe (0.42) and Asia / Pacific (0.58) all performed better than the global average.”
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/2009-02-19-01.htm
…and Flight Global they say, in response to your comment, “maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.” say:
“US FAA fines Southwest $10.2 million for missing fleet inspections
Southwest Airlines grounded nearly 7% of its Boeing 737 fleet in mid-March after the FAA proposed a record $10.2 million fine for missed fleet inspections and after a congressman charged that the carrier's "cosy" relationships with FAA on-site inspectors had endangered safety.
For an airline that wins award after award as an admired company, and as the US carrier that carried the most domestic passengers in 2007 - 101.9 million - the possible erosion of its reputation presents a serious challenge”
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/03/20/222313/southwest-fined-10.2m-for-missing-fleet-inspections.html
I particularly like the comment made by Garry Kelly, Southwest Airlines Chief Executive: "We have safely transported the population of the United States four and a half times" great comment to put at the end of an article where his airline has ignored mandatory inspections on 7% of it’s fleet… can you help with the numbers there? How many people did that endanger?
Let’s do some very basic maths here:
Population of the U.S.A = 306,252,710 (http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html)
So 306252710 x 4.5= 1,278,137,195 people flown, 7% of fleet missed mandatory inspections = 96,469,603.65 people flown on aircraft with missed mandatory checks, do you thing Garry Kelly uses the same smiley as you when he talks about safety?
Ok I’m being mean you can have your statement “maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.” in Europe were not as good as you guys in the states, and lest not forget while “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics” the Southwest incident didn’t do any good for the aviation industry in the Sates or anywhere for that matter!
.
What’s with the evasive answer? I asked a simple question, “Do you want to back that up with numbers?” you say, “absolutely, prove me wrong.”
So where are your numbers, come on how can I prove you wrong if you’re not going to justify your big bold claim?
Tell you what lets keep things fair I’ll go first:
You said: “[The] safety records of carriers maintained by those with "highly regarded" maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics. ”
I said, as stated above:
“Do you want to back that up with numbers?”
You said, well we’ve been through that, you didn’t…
Iata say: “North Asia had a perfect record of zero hull losses in 2008. North America (0.58), Europe (0.42) and Asia / Pacific (0.58) all performed better than the global average.”
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/2009-02-19-01.htm
…and Flight Global they say, in response to your comment, “maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.” say:
“US FAA fines Southwest $10.2 million for missing fleet inspections
Southwest Airlines grounded nearly 7% of its Boeing 737 fleet in mid-March after the FAA proposed a record $10.2 million fine for missed fleet inspections and after a congressman charged that the carrier's "cosy" relationships with FAA on-site inspectors had endangered safety.
For an airline that wins award after award as an admired company, and as the US carrier that carried the most domestic passengers in 2007 - 101.9 million - the possible erosion of its reputation presents a serious challenge”
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/03/20/222313/southwest-fined-10.2m-for-missing-fleet-inspections.html
I particularly like the comment made by Garry Kelly, Southwest Airlines Chief Executive: "We have safely transported the population of the United States four and a half times" great comment to put at the end of an article where his airline has ignored mandatory inspections on 7% of it’s fleet… can you help with the numbers there? How many people did that endanger?
Let’s do some very basic maths here:
Population of the U.S.A = 306,252,710 (http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html)
So 306252710 x 4.5= 1,278,137,195 people flown, 7% of fleet missed mandatory inspections = 96,469,603.65 people flown on aircraft with missed mandatory checks, do you thing Garry Kelly uses the same smiley as you when he talks about safety?
Ok I’m being mean you can have your statement “maintenance certifications are no better than those maintained by FAA certificated mechanics.” in Europe were not as good as you guys in the states, and lest not forget while “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics” the Southwest incident didn’t do any good for the aviation industry in the Sates or anywhere for that matter!
.
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Nice try Miles, typical faulty logic. I do hope your aircraft troubleshooting skills don't follow similar logic. Please tell me how hull loss statistics have anything to do with maintenance quality, or dispatch reliability? Tell me how many of those hull losses counted by IATA were lost due to poor maintenance?
How does Southwest being fined by the FAA have anything to do with A&P certification being "easy".
"Our tests are harder than yours, therefore we are better" Yeah, right.
Same logic is, "our country is so much older than yours, therefore we are better"
Non compliance with mandatory inspections were management decisions. It has absolutely nothing to do with mechanic licensing being easy, lax, etc.
How does Southwest being fined by the FAA have anything to do with A&P certification being "easy".
"Our tests are harder than yours, therefore we are better" Yeah, right.
Same logic is, "our country is so much older than yours, therefore we are better"
Non compliance with mandatory inspections were management decisions. It has absolutely nothing to do with mechanic licensing being easy, lax, etc.
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Chill out dude no one saying that anyones any better than any else, the fact is compared to some licences the A&P is very easy to obtain it requires no where near the same level of knowledge or effort than say obtaining BCAR licence required and thats a fact, end of story really as for europe being better, of course were better no sane person could argue otherwise
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Cummon guys, Chill out......the poor guy only wanted to know how and where to get his A & P......instead of helping him out or guiding him.....everyone seems to enter the forum with blazing guns everywhere!!! 
. Nobody is better or worse, its all down to certifying individuals....I have seen so many penpushers having Licenses...both from FAA & EASA(JAR). so its NOT down to standards of any country or their authority but rather its the person and how they do their job!!! We can go on and on and on needlessly arguing about who and what is better!!!!
. Nobody is better or worse, its all down to certifying individuals....I have seen so many penpushers having Licenses...both from FAA & EASA(JAR). so its NOT down to standards of any country or their authority but rather its the person and how they do their job!!! We can go on and on and on needlessly arguing about who and what is better!!!!
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Im not a engineer, i couldnt pass a technical exam A@ P or otherwise to save my life, however i do know a bit about engineer recruitment and i do know that for whatever reasons engineers holding the A@P qualification are deemed by employers to be less qualified that those holding certain other licences the general consesus is A@P holders are classed as "mechanics" whilst for eg holders of CAA licences are seen as "engineers "all seems a bit strange to me but thats how it is.
Further one thing i can say is EASA licence holders(and CASA) especially if UK or German issued in the B1 AND B2 cat with type ratings attract a higher renumeration genearally than A@P holders, again whether that is justified or not i could not say
Further one thing i can say is EASA licence holders(and CASA) especially if UK or German issued in the B1 AND B2 cat with type ratings attract a higher renumeration genearally than A@P holders, again whether that is justified or not i could not say
With thanks to Harry Hill
The thing is, I like A & P Mechanics, but I also like B1 Engineers.
But which is best?
There's only one way to find out.
FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
But which is best?
There's only one way to find out.
FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
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It does seem that most jobs advertised outside of North America are for EASA licence holders and not for A&P . I have often toyed with the idea of doing an A&P as well but it always seems to come back to the above reason that I can't seem to justify the time and expence of doing it !
On a slight tangent , I have heard a rumour (pprune after all !) that the CAA are looking to go back to the old BCAR system because of the lack of a level playing field between EASA member states and the way they issue licences: re comment above about Spain and we've all heard about the French !! Anyone else heard the same ?????????
On a slight tangent , I have heard a rumour (pprune after all !) that the CAA are looking to go back to the old BCAR system because of the lack of a level playing field between EASA member states and the way they issue licences: re comment above about Spain and we've all heard about the French !! Anyone else heard the same ?????????