BSc (Hons) Aircraft Maintenance Top-up degree
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BSc (Hons) Aircraft Maintenance Top-up degree
Does anyone have any experience/comments about the BSc (Hons) Aircraft Maintenance top-up degrees being offered by Barry College or Kingston College?
Are they worth the cost and bother and can they realistically be completed part-time in 2 years.
The start qualification needed is a B licence so is it not just easier to serve your time and apply for a C licence, or is it a long term banker for when you want to move into management?
Are they worth the cost and bother and can they realistically be completed part-time in 2 years.
The start qualification needed is a B licence so is it not just easier to serve your time and apply for a C licence, or is it a long term banker for when you want to move into management?
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Management jobs are gained (in my experience as a junior one sometimes) through performance, networking and team playing.
VERY few managers in aviation maintenance are actually academically qualified in the classical sense at all. Mores the pity.
It's a clinched truism (IMO) that very few academics make decent engineers or managers. A much more pragmatic blend of skill is required.
In other words, Kingston degrees are only of value when allied with wider pragmatic skills and experience. FWIW.
VERY few managers in aviation maintenance are actually academically qualified in the classical sense at all. Mores the pity.
It's a clinched truism (IMO) that very few academics make decent engineers or managers. A much more pragmatic blend of skill is required.
In other words, Kingston degrees are only of value when allied with wider pragmatic skills and experience. FWIW.
Not too sure... but if you have a BSc in Aircraft Maintenance you are entitiled to apply for a C Licence and, following a (mere) further 12 months of practical experience and a Pt147 approved Type Course, the opportunity to release aircraft from base Maintenance!
As mentioned by Vortechs, not a great way to fully understand the ways of the Beast - more likely to understand the ways of the Beancounter.
However, if you already have a B1/B2 - after five years of certifying you get the same priviliges and have truly been inducted into mainteance, fully deserving the C Licence.
I have nothing against the academic route - I just have no faith in the possible "intentions" of its future use.
As mentioned by Vortechs, not a great way to fully understand the ways of the Beast - more likely to understand the ways of the Beancounter.
However, if you already have a B1/B2 - after five years of certifying you get the same priviliges and have truly been inducted into mainteance, fully deserving the C Licence.
I have nothing against the academic route - I just have no faith in the possible "intentions" of its future use.
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I have done the Kingston course and I am also a C cert licensed engineer with over 20 years experience.
There is no substitute for actual hands on experience on live aircraft in as many different enviroments as possible, a degree will not help you gain that experience.
What the degree HAS given me is added confidence and a positive change in attitude from my fellow licensed engineers. The degree has also enabled me to become involved in airworthiness and technical support roles and therefore I have become more of an asset to an organisation with the added job security and pay raise that goes with that. I have also become involved in writing and delivering aviation training packages.
All of the above could have happened without the degree, but the degree has made it much easier.
The course is achievable in 2 years, and speaking for myself, I needed to put in a lot of consistent effort to get a good mark which is time consuming but also very rewarding.
Overall, the best thing about having a degree is that it gives me options. No-one outside of this messed up industry knows what a licensed engineer is, or what the academic equivalent of a license is, a degree enables you to look at complimentary industries (tech services, consultancy, manufacturing, training, etc) and apply for jobs that are not possible without a degree.
Hope this helps.
There is no substitute for actual hands on experience on live aircraft in as many different enviroments as possible, a degree will not help you gain that experience.
What the degree HAS given me is added confidence and a positive change in attitude from my fellow licensed engineers. The degree has also enabled me to become involved in airworthiness and technical support roles and therefore I have become more of an asset to an organisation with the added job security and pay raise that goes with that. I have also become involved in writing and delivering aviation training packages.
All of the above could have happened without the degree, but the degree has made it much easier.
The course is achievable in 2 years, and speaking for myself, I needed to put in a lot of consistent effort to get a good mark which is time consuming but also very rewarding.
Overall, the best thing about having a degree is that it gives me options. No-one outside of this messed up industry knows what a licensed engineer is, or what the academic equivalent of a license is, a degree enables you to look at complimentary industries (tech services, consultancy, manufacturing, training, etc) and apply for jobs that are not possible without a degree.
Hope this helps.
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Brilliant Yoth, just the sort of detailed post I was looking for 
I can now see the point in a cat C licence holder going for it. Do you mind me asking what sort of effort you put into it, (hours per day, days per week) and a rough idea of cost?
Thanks in advance
I can now see the point in a cat C licence holder going for it. Do you mind me asking what sort of effort you put into it, (hours per day, days per week) and a rough idea of cost?
Thanks in advance
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I'm not sure of the price of the course as I beleieve that they put the price up recently.
Accommodation is expensive around Kingston, but the only times that you HAVE to turn up is to deliver the group project presentation, the end of first year exams, then the individual project presenatation and finally, the end of year 2 exams.
You do not have to turn up to any of the lectures, all the study material is made available on line. When you register, you are given a recommended reading list. Personally, the only one I bought was Exploring Corporate Strategy by Johnson & Scholes for the business studies module. Everyting else is available on line now. Wikipedia rules!!!
I would recommend that you turned up for the technology lecture week in the first year, lots of maths. The second module in the first year is an extended romp through air leg and basic aircraft engineering principles, NDT, planning, etc. So depending on your knowledge of these subjects I would give it a miss. The group project presentation is delivered during the second module week of the first year.
Year 2 I would turn up for both the modules. The business studies week is first and I thought was the best one of the four. The last module is Quality Systems, such as Six Sigma, continuous improvement methods, etc. I needed as much info on these subjects as I could get. The handouts on the Quality module was sufficient to study for the exam, so no need to buy any books.
In the first year you will have to team up with a number of your fellow students, who you may not know and produce a group project. This project is chosen amongst the group and must be relevant and have sufficient technical and academic merit for it to be accepted by the University. The group project is the one that absorbs the most time, not just in the writing but also arranging meetings with the other members of the group, all of which have to be minuted and agendas agreed, etc. Big pain in the arse. You also have to write a log book of the project, which is a diary of the project, what you did, any people you had meetings with, any research you did on the project, sketches, ideas, it was endless. I would say that in the first year I was averaging 10-15 hours a week on University stuff. Writing assignments, researching for the project, writing the project, reading up on various subjects, studying for exams, etc.
It is a relief to get the first year out of the way.
The second year is much calmer, the individual project takes up less time and the assignments for the modules were easier to compile because I was more used to it. The exams were easier too.
I seemed to have banged on a bit. Hope this helps.....
Accommodation is expensive around Kingston, but the only times that you HAVE to turn up is to deliver the group project presentation, the end of first year exams, then the individual project presenatation and finally, the end of year 2 exams.
You do not have to turn up to any of the lectures, all the study material is made available on line. When you register, you are given a recommended reading list. Personally, the only one I bought was Exploring Corporate Strategy by Johnson & Scholes for the business studies module. Everyting else is available on line now. Wikipedia rules!!!
I would recommend that you turned up for the technology lecture week in the first year, lots of maths. The second module in the first year is an extended romp through air leg and basic aircraft engineering principles, NDT, planning, etc. So depending on your knowledge of these subjects I would give it a miss. The group project presentation is delivered during the second module week of the first year.
Year 2 I would turn up for both the modules. The business studies week is first and I thought was the best one of the four. The last module is Quality Systems, such as Six Sigma, continuous improvement methods, etc. I needed as much info on these subjects as I could get. The handouts on the Quality module was sufficient to study for the exam, so no need to buy any books.
In the first year you will have to team up with a number of your fellow students, who you may not know and produce a group project. This project is chosen amongst the group and must be relevant and have sufficient technical and academic merit for it to be accepted by the University. The group project is the one that absorbs the most time, not just in the writing but also arranging meetings with the other members of the group, all of which have to be minuted and agendas agreed, etc. Big pain in the arse. You also have to write a log book of the project, which is a diary of the project, what you did, any people you had meetings with, any research you did on the project, sketches, ideas, it was endless. I would say that in the first year I was averaging 10-15 hours a week on University stuff. Writing assignments, researching for the project, writing the project, reading up on various subjects, studying for exams, etc.
It is a relief to get the first year out of the way.
The second year is much calmer, the individual project takes up less time and the assignments for the modules were easier to compile because I was more used to it. The exams were easier too.
I seemed to have banged on a bit. Hope this helps.....
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Unlike Yoth my degree from Kingston has been of no use. None of my employers has seen it as a plus point and my fellow engineers are indifferant. But then as metioned before no one outside the industry knows what a license is, so that was one of the reasons why I did it at the time. If given the choice again I think I would use the money for a B2 course.
Also its up to you. You might wont the chalenge of doing it.
The certificate will look good on your wall.
Also its up to you. You might wont the chalenge of doing it.
The certificate will look good on your wall.
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I am also a C cert licensed engineer with over 20 years experience.
Are you also B1/B2? If you got the C cert off the back of a degree then you only got it in the last 4 1/2 years if you don't hold any other lic cats with approvals.
I got my C license on all my types because I was clearing SMICRS on Base checks already for a few years when I chopped in my BCAR A&C for a full B1 when I passed the restriction modules and had the necessary experience requirements a few years back
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Kingston Top Up Degree
Mark Nine
I also have done the Top Up degree with Kingston. Overall I found it a very positive experience. I have B1/B2 licences and type ratings but I joined the degree program to expand my non technical knowledge. In comparison to type rating courses where answers are black and white, the degree challenges you, and broadens your outlook.
I also have done the Top Up degree with Kingston. Overall I found it a very positive experience. I have B1/B2 licences and type ratings but I joined the degree program to expand my non technical knowledge. In comparison to type rating courses where answers are black and white, the degree challenges you, and broadens your outlook.
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Kingston
I too have done the Kingston course however as I am in the mob I wanted it to capitalise on my HND and take me up to degree status. My end game is NOT that of B1 / 2 but to go into another part of the industry or another area of engineering altogether.
As has been said you will cover four taught modules each with assignments and exams along with two projects. MODULE DESCRIPTION pdf
The first year being very pertinent to the aviation industry in terms of technology and materials (plenty of maths to get your head around) followed by the maintenance and logistics, which as a military type I had to work hard at in order to get my head around the ledg and get my assignment correct.
Year two was really interesting I guess due to the fact it was away from my comfort zone but not so much so that the subject became too difficult or un interesting. The business studies will give you a good idea of how the company wants to progress (more likely how the company accountants want you to make their wallets larger!). I do remember writing for Britain in the exam four questions in 3 hours, I wrote 5 pages on the first question alone. The quality module, in some way, dove tailing into the business studies unlike others I had to read lots for this because of my lack of exposure to TQM, 6Sigma, Risk SPC ant others.
I felt that the exposure you gain whilst researching your assignments / projects may give you that impetus to explore other areas that you may not have considered in summary a very good course and I ended up with a first. Its not too hard to get a 2:2 but you will have to put the effort in if you want moor.
The current cost is about £3000 you may want to phone the course supervisor to confirm this. KINGSTON WEB
As has been said you will cover four taught modules each with assignments and exams along with two projects. MODULE DESCRIPTION pdf
The first year being very pertinent to the aviation industry in terms of technology and materials (plenty of maths to get your head around) followed by the maintenance and logistics, which as a military type I had to work hard at in order to get my head around the ledg and get my assignment correct.
Year two was really interesting I guess due to the fact it was away from my comfort zone but not so much so that the subject became too difficult or un interesting. The business studies will give you a good idea of how the company wants to progress (more likely how the company accountants want you to make their wallets larger!). I do remember writing for Britain in the exam four questions in 3 hours, I wrote 5 pages on the first question alone. The quality module, in some way, dove tailing into the business studies unlike others I had to read lots for this because of my lack of exposure to TQM, 6Sigma, Risk SPC ant others.
I felt that the exposure you gain whilst researching your assignments / projects may give you that impetus to explore other areas that you may not have considered in summary a very good course and I ended up with a first. Its not too hard to get a 2:2 but you will have to put the effort in if you want moor.
The current cost is about £3000 you may want to phone the course supervisor to confirm this. KINGSTON WEB
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Currently doing this degree with Barry college but its through university of Glamorgan. been in industry 30 years but only have licence 2 years due to being a workshops man for a long time. I would have to say that anyone working in this fickle industry must obtain a licence first and foremost, the degree is in my opinion is a personal goal for those of us that went from school to an apprenticeship as most employers are only interested in licence and type ratings unless you are going office bound in whatever guise that entails. Make no mistake, your B1/B2 ticket is what makes you eminently employable and not letters after your name.
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Have to agree with you Vern on the point that licences and type tickets come first, but now that I have a Cat C licence and all the tickets I need, I'm looking for something else to challenge me.
Please could you P.M. me with more details of the course, costs etc.
Please could you P.M. me with more details of the course, costs etc.
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Can anyone give me an example of what a module assignment entails for the Barry College (ICAT) top-up BSc degree in aircraft maintenance engineering.....for example module 3 or 4?
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BEng(Hons) top-up - Kingston University - Aircraft Engineering
BEng is NOT BSc. Well, they say they've been deemed by CAA as acceptable.
I haven't noticed anything of this nature regarding Glamorgan/ICAT course and their BSc. The PDF (link) below does not stipulate what has to be in.
Newcastle Aviation College website mentions their BSc option, but that's not BEng Kingston has directly as I understand it.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ELGDBook_07_WebVersion.pdf
Scroll to page 58.
Found this one on neighbouring thread here
I don't see 12 months only in there (or don't seem to find it) for C cat. They mention 3 years.
That is, if one only finishes 'academic route' towards C cat lic.
I'm just an observer about to embark on 'part 66 degree', no experience myself, but have been watching the threads for some time.
BEng is NOT BSc. Well, they say they've been deemed by CAA as acceptable.
I haven't noticed anything of this nature regarding Glamorgan/ICAT course and their BSc. The PDF (link) below does not stipulate what has to be in.
from linked PDF: F2.4 Graduate Route
A graduate holding a degree in Aeronautical
Engineering, or a similar discipline that is considered by
the CAA relevant to aircraft maintenance that has been
accepted for this purpose by the CAA, must have at
least 3 years experience in a civil aircraft maintenance
environment including 6 months of observation of base
maintenance tasks. There are currently no standard
assessment terms for these applications and therefore
applicants are advised, before applying for licence
issue, to ensure they meet the experience criteria in
accordance with Part-66.A.30 and related AMC. A
person qualifying for a Category C licence via this route
will not be entitled to a Category B1 or B2 licence
unless the requirements for those Categories are also
met.
A graduate holding a degree in Aeronautical
Engineering, or a similar discipline that is considered by
the CAA relevant to aircraft maintenance that has been
accepted for this purpose by the CAA, must have at
least 3 years experience in a civil aircraft maintenance
environment including 6 months of observation of base
maintenance tasks. There are currently no standard
assessment terms for these applications and therefore
applicants are advised, before applying for licence
issue, to ensure they meet the experience criteria in
accordance with Part-66.A.30 and related AMC. A
person qualifying for a Category C licence via this route
will not be entitled to a Category B1 or B2 licence
unless the requirements for those Categories are also
met.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ELGDBook_07_WebVersion.pdf
Scroll to page 58.
Found this one on neighbouring thread here
I don't see 12 months only in there (or don't seem to find it) for C cat. They mention 3 years.
That is, if one only finishes 'academic route' towards C cat lic.
I'm just an observer about to embark on 'part 66 degree', no experience myself, but have been watching the threads for some time.
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Anyone done or doing the BSc top-up degree at Barry that can give me an idea of what the assignment work involves ??
I've got a B1 & Cat C with mucho time served with a spanner and a pen, just looking for something to keep my brain busy.
I've got a B1 & Cat C with mucho time served with a spanner and a pen, just looking for something to keep my brain busy.
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A degree in aircraft maintenance won't add much to your overall skills.
If you want to get a degree as a "banker" for moving outside the industry or which will be useful when moving up into management, rather than staying with a specialist degree in aircraft maintenance, I'd recommend studying for a more general management degree such as a BSc in Economics.
In addition to compulsory modules that cover the important business areas such as management accounting (bean counting), corporate finance, human resources, industrial psychology etc., you can add interesting options such as politics (Machiavelli is especially valuable) and end up being able to play the bean-counting and anti-personnel departments on an even playing field.
University of London
If you want to get a degree as a "banker" for moving outside the industry or which will be useful when moving up into management, rather than staying with a specialist degree in aircraft maintenance, I'd recommend studying for a more general management degree such as a BSc in Economics.
In addition to compulsory modules that cover the important business areas such as management accounting (bean counting), corporate finance, human resources, industrial psychology etc., you can add interesting options such as politics (Machiavelli is especially valuable) and end up being able to play the bean-counting and anti-personnel departments on an even playing field.
University of London
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guidance needed !!
hi there YOTH
I am planing to do my AME course in Kingston or Glamorgan university . I am from India. i have already finished my bachelors degree in the field of electrical and electronics engineering . I have worked with dell computers for 2 years. I was always interested in the field of aviation finally decided to do my AME abroad. i don't know much about the field of aviation and there is no one to guide me to . My doubt is since i already have a bachelors degree ,would it be better for me if i just do a diploma in aircraft maintenance engineering or is it better that i do another degree ( BSC{hons}) in AME.Also would like to know which would be the best place in term of job prospects to do an AME. Hopin your vast experience in aviation would be able to guide me .. Thank you for your time .
I am planing to do my AME course in Kingston or Glamorgan university . I am from India. i have already finished my bachelors degree in the field of electrical and electronics engineering . I have worked with dell computers for 2 years. I was always interested in the field of aviation finally decided to do my AME abroad. i don't know much about the field of aviation and there is no one to guide me to . My doubt is since i already have a bachelors degree ,would it be better for me if i just do a diploma in aircraft maintenance engineering or is it better that i do another degree ( BSC{hons}) in AME.Also would like to know which would be the best place in term of job prospects to do an AME. Hopin your vast experience in aviation would be able to guide me .. Thank you for your time .
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@Bala Murali,
unsolicited advice, IMO, i would suggest you apply for a job as a technician with any of the pvt airlines in India or MROs.
Rack up (gain) your minimum experience to appear for the Indian DGCA exams. You should be able to get thru considering you have a degree in Electronics and Electrical Engg.
As Yoth mentioned, there is no substitute to hand skills. As a Avionics technician you will be in a position to appreciatiate the application of the theoratical knowledge. If given an option, seek a placement in the Heavy maintenance or hangar based positions. There are MROs coming up in Trivandrum, Hyderabad and Bangalore. The money won't be great to start with however as compared to spending close to £30k over 2yrs in UK chasing a degree in an industry on the decline in UK and EU, you could be half way thru to gaining your Indian AME lic with the possibility of working in what will IMO be the largest MRO country in the world. Middle-East, Singapore, Malaysia have a large number of Indians working in their MRO industries.
Alternatively apply for a opening with ROLLSROYCE, GE, BOEING or AIRBUS. These aerospace giants have significant works @ Bangalore especially GE.
unsolicited advice, IMO, i would suggest you apply for a job as a technician with any of the pvt airlines in India or MROs.
Rack up (gain) your minimum experience to appear for the Indian DGCA exams. You should be able to get thru considering you have a degree in Electronics and Electrical Engg.
As Yoth mentioned, there is no substitute to hand skills. As a Avionics technician you will be in a position to appreciatiate the application of the theoratical knowledge. If given an option, seek a placement in the Heavy maintenance or hangar based positions. There are MROs coming up in Trivandrum, Hyderabad and Bangalore. The money won't be great to start with however as compared to spending close to £30k over 2yrs in UK chasing a degree in an industry on the decline in UK and EU, you could be half way thru to gaining your Indian AME lic with the possibility of working in what will IMO be the largest MRO country in the world. Middle-East, Singapore, Malaysia have a large number of Indians working in their MRO industries.
Alternatively apply for a opening with ROLLSROYCE, GE, BOEING or AIRBUS. These aerospace giants have significant works @ Bangalore especially GE.