QANTAS Engineering Apprenticeship
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: australia
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Aus01
Sorry mate QF anit the only bad boy in aus aviation. other airlines are no better when it comes to pay or any of the other issues you've been warned about. its all the same today . 7 years ago i made a bad mistake buy takeing an apprentiship, now a LAME on $25.00/hr i kick myself everytime time i sign to think i am certifing for A/C maintenace for $25.00/hr i can throw bricks or concret for $30/hr
DONT DO IT
DONT DO IT
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Reply to QF22.
Mate, I know the Air-Force doesn't pay that well. It does, however, offer a huge range of allowances/benefits on top of an airman's normal salary. i.e. The Defence Credit Union offers full-time and part-time members of the Australian Defence Force low interest rates on Home Loans, lower than bank and other Home Loan lenders. Not to mention the amount of allowances you get when on operations and exercises.
Most of all though, i reckon i'll get job satisfaction and career progression in the Air-Force, aswell as the ability to work with people my own age, which is something that members of this forum say that QANTAS doesn't offer.
Most of all though, i reckon i'll get job satisfaction and career progression in the Air-Force, aswell as the ability to work with people my own age, which is something that members of this forum say that QANTAS doesn't offer.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Eshlon,
I wish you the best of luck to your endeavours with QANTAS Engineering. However, in light of the previous replies, you might want to look somewhere else with better career prospects and progression.
The Australian Defence Force would be a good move I would think. The Navy, Army and Air Force offer apprenticeships in Avionics, Mechanical and Structures. The equivalent of an Avionics streamed AME, is known as an Avionics Technician across the three services. The main difference is that the RAAF is all fixed wing, while the Navy (pays more) and Army operate all the rotary wing assets.
With the pay side of things, I don’t know many other occupations that you could walk straight into earning $49,000+ p.a., along with your training paid for, free health and dental care, subsidised accommodation and a few of the other perks that Eshlon mentioned before. Consequently, this drives your wage further when compared to living in civvy world as you don’t have many of the usual expenses. Not to mention that your pay keeps going up in healthy increments, and as a technician your pay can go up to $100,000 p.a. based on rank and posting. It’s the bigger picture that people haven’t seen here, maybe it’s because people only see $$$$$$$$$ signs.
Not to steer away from the aircraft trades, but the RAAF also has a mustering called a Communication and Electronics Technician, that might better reflect some of the work you have done in your apprenticeship and have a better chance at gaining RPL from already completed/related modules.
I wouldn't mind the Rarely Active After Four lifestyle on base, no hope of that though in the Navy or the Army!
Regards,
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Just got offered an aprenticship with Qantas as an AME avionics. Wonder why it took so long for them to make a decision.
A few questions...
Is a pathway to Uni to do like Aerospace enginneering? I know technically that there is but how probable is it that you would be accepted into a Uni course after doing an apprenticeship.
I havent finished school yet, i am about half way through Yr 12, is it worth finishing or doing the apprentcieship now?
A few questions...
Is a pathway to Uni to do like Aerospace enginneering? I know technically that there is but how probable is it that you would be accepted into a Uni course after doing an apprenticeship.
I havent finished school yet, i am about half way through Yr 12, is it worth finishing or doing the apprentcieship now?
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I you want to go to Uni, finish year 12 and got to uni. Don't do an apprenticeship which takes 4 years.
I your smart enough to get into aeronautical engineering then I would advise you to go down that path. Not into a fairly dead end trade with little earning capacity and even less training available to get a licence. Sure, the training by major airlines might change in the future (or it may not) but either way you'll be earning well less than the average wage for the first 10 years of your career.
Go to uni if you can, you'll earn more money and be earning well above the average wage probably straight after you finish.
I your smart enough to get into aeronautical engineering then I would advise you to go down that path. Not into a fairly dead end trade with little earning capacity and even less training available to get a licence. Sure, the training by major airlines might change in the future (or it may not) but either way you'll be earning well less than the average wage for the first 10 years of your career.
Go to uni if you can, you'll earn more money and be earning well above the average wage probably straight after you finish.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Plus Aeronautical Engineers are highly sought after by Formula 1,Indy and other car racing teams for their design abilities.And there are loads of other interesting industries that require those types of engineering skills.
If you really want to be a LAE after doing university,then you can always go back(or is it backwards) as you will still be young enough.
If you really want to be a LAE after doing university,then you can always go back(or is it backwards) as you will still be young enough.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I thought I would add my experiences with QF into the mix. I did a Mechanical apprenticeship starting in 96 and finishing in 00. Bear in mind that much may have changed since then.
Don't get too worried if you receive papers from QF where the application date has already past. This is just how things work there. Fill in the forms and send them off. Do tick the AME box, as it is generally easier to get onto better things than ticking the AM box.
The initial testing for the apprenticeship consist of a set of aptitude tests. From memory, there is a mechanical aptitude test (i.e. you are given a drawing of a gear train and you must figure out which way the various gears turn / drawings of various shapes and you must decide which two items are identical etc), a English grammar test, a mental arithmetic test, and one more that escapes my memory (may be a short written test on your motivations for working with QF / why you would be a good engineer etc.)
The interview is the next stage if you pass. This used to be conducted by engineering personel, so there was none of the usual nonsence you get with job interviews. If you were going for avionics, you are given a circuit board where you have to identify various components. Mechanical guys are asked to describe the workings of 2 and 4 stroke engines with the aid of a sectioned engine.
If you get the apprenticeship, you then start your training. This used to be a combination of the first nine months at the QF apprentice training school (don't think it exists anymore). You go to your fist section in the last three months of the first year. Second and third years alternates between rotations at the jetbase, and block release at TAFE. Fourth year consists of rotations at the jetbase.
You can get a degree through QF (cadetship), but you will have to finish your apprenticeship first. Bear in mind, that the cadetship is another eight year commitment. You spent the fist two years at uni, and the alternate between a year at QF, and a year of uni. At the end of this, you have to give another two years to QF. You can apply for Mechanical and Aero engineering, and another degree, which is basically a management / business type degree. Bear in mind that the final choice as to the degree you get is decided by QF.
On a personal note, if you want a aircraft maintenance engineering trade, with experience on the big jets, then go for QANTAS, as it is the only employer offering this in OZ. If you do like planes, it is very interesting, but bear in mind that there is lots of tedious crap as well.
Also bear in mind what the old hands have said. Training was always a contentious issue at QF. It is certaily a case of "it's not what you know, it's who you know". Also be prepared for shift work and the restriction it places on your life. It certainly gave me the ****s when my mates were out and about and I was working.
The best way to possibly see it, is gaining an apprenticeship and some experience that you use to get into other areas. Of the 5 blokes that started with me as mechanical AME's, 5 have gone back to uni (3 thru QF cadetship, 2 including me off our own backs) with only one left still at QF.
My colleagues still at QF genrally reflect the sentiments of some of the older hands who have written here. That is, things are not what they used to be, and going down hill.
In summary, go for the apprenticeship if you want to, as not many people ever get to play with jet engines and 747's, but keep an eye out for other opportunities as other have said. Think of your QF apprenticehip as a stepping stone to stuff outside of QF.
Regards, JetMech
Don't get too worried if you receive papers from QF where the application date has already past. This is just how things work there. Fill in the forms and send them off. Do tick the AME box, as it is generally easier to get onto better things than ticking the AM box.
The initial testing for the apprenticeship consist of a set of aptitude tests. From memory, there is a mechanical aptitude test (i.e. you are given a drawing of a gear train and you must figure out which way the various gears turn / drawings of various shapes and you must decide which two items are identical etc), a English grammar test, a mental arithmetic test, and one more that escapes my memory (may be a short written test on your motivations for working with QF / why you would be a good engineer etc.)
The interview is the next stage if you pass. This used to be conducted by engineering personel, so there was none of the usual nonsence you get with job interviews. If you were going for avionics, you are given a circuit board where you have to identify various components. Mechanical guys are asked to describe the workings of 2 and 4 stroke engines with the aid of a sectioned engine.
If you get the apprenticeship, you then start your training. This used to be a combination of the first nine months at the QF apprentice training school (don't think it exists anymore). You go to your fist section in the last three months of the first year. Second and third years alternates between rotations at the jetbase, and block release at TAFE. Fourth year consists of rotations at the jetbase.
You can get a degree through QF (cadetship), but you will have to finish your apprenticeship first. Bear in mind, that the cadetship is another eight year commitment. You spent the fist two years at uni, and the alternate between a year at QF, and a year of uni. At the end of this, you have to give another two years to QF. You can apply for Mechanical and Aero engineering, and another degree, which is basically a management / business type degree. Bear in mind that the final choice as to the degree you get is decided by QF.
On a personal note, if you want a aircraft maintenance engineering trade, with experience on the big jets, then go for QANTAS, as it is the only employer offering this in OZ. If you do like planes, it is very interesting, but bear in mind that there is lots of tedious crap as well.
Also bear in mind what the old hands have said. Training was always a contentious issue at QF. It is certaily a case of "it's not what you know, it's who you know". Also be prepared for shift work and the restriction it places on your life. It certainly gave me the ****s when my mates were out and about and I was working.
The best way to possibly see it, is gaining an apprenticeship and some experience that you use to get into other areas. Of the 5 blokes that started with me as mechanical AME's, 5 have gone back to uni (3 thru QF cadetship, 2 including me off our own backs) with only one left still at QF.
My colleagues still at QF genrally reflect the sentiments of some of the older hands who have written here. That is, things are not what they used to be, and going down hill.
In summary, go for the apprenticeship if you want to, as not many people ever get to play with jet engines and 747's, but keep an eye out for other opportunities as other have said. Think of your QF apprenticehip as a stepping stone to stuff outside of QF.
Regards, JetMech
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Forget QF, BAE Systems is looking for apprentices in all trades at all sites, basic AME wage when finished is $26.40 hr, or about $55K. and that only working a 4 day shift, every weekend is 3 days long! work hrs are 6 am to 4 pm, mon to thurs.
you will be working on Millitary aircraft, so market forces are not a factor in wage yearly increases, in the 4 yrs i have been here, it has average 4% PA. not to mention performance bonuses of about $4000 PA. and with life of type contracts at most sites, work wont be drying up any time soon..
im ex QF, QF is a sheltered workshop, unless you get on your hands and knees under a desk, you will NOT get anywhere.
PM me if you want any more info....
sites are Pearce with the Hawk 127, Williamtown with the F18 Hornet and Hawk 127, Townsville, Holsworthy, Nowra working on sea Hawk, sea King and squirrel, blackhawk Brisbane working on Hercs and F111 occasionally.
you will be working on Millitary aircraft, so market forces are not a factor in wage yearly increases, in the 4 yrs i have been here, it has average 4% PA. not to mention performance bonuses of about $4000 PA. and with life of type contracts at most sites, work wont be drying up any time soon..
im ex QF, QF is a sheltered workshop, unless you get on your hands and knees under a desk, you will NOT get anywhere.
PM me if you want any more info....
sites are Pearce with the Hawk 127, Williamtown with the F18 Hornet and Hawk 127, Townsville, Holsworthy, Nowra working on sea Hawk, sea King and squirrel, blackhawk Brisbane working on Hercs and F111 occasionally.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: new zealand
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apply to the air new zealand engineering school, sure its across the tasman n such, but its a really good setup here in christchurch and there are good prospects at the end, not to mention if you get your licence then you can go anywhere in the world pretty much. better than any building jobs cos you get to mess with aircraft 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I did my apprenticeship there, and got bugger all out of it apart from part filled SOE's I now work elsewhere and after being there for a year they are offering Licence courses to AME's. Also on your days off go work in GA like I did through your apprenticeship and get your Group 1 at least and try and get group 5, 6, and 10 which will give you a reduction on group 20/21. There are plenty of GA places which would welcome your cheap labour and at the same time you are setting up yourself for endless opportunities. People employ LAME's more than AME's. Also the experience you get in GA is so much more than what you will ever get at Qantas, aka fitters engineers as thats what really goes on when you think about it. Just watch out for management and don't piss anyone off, as that will be it for your career.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Group 1,5,6,10 will give you a 20% reduction in your group 20/21 Airframe.
Then if you have a Group 20/21 you have to do some work in Sked maintenance on your group 1, and you get given 5,6,10
Then if you have a Group 20/21 you have to do some work in Sked maintenance on your group 1, and you get given 5,6,10
Join Date: Apr 2008
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qantas dont want lame's
qantas wont you to stay a ame after your apprenticeship. no training given anymore. i am 2 yrs out of the apprenticeship and now have to look for something else as they do not offer a career other than ame. it has all changed in the last 5-6 yrs
stay away is my best advice.
low moral at the sydney jet base and heaps of engineers leaving.
sorry all
stay away is my best advice.
low moral at the sydney jet base and heaps of engineers leaving.
sorry all
Join Date: Apr 2008
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It is worth doing a QF Apprenticship!!!
I moved to Perth after completing an apprenticeship with QF and I have had no problems finding well paid work for an AME with good career progression towards getting licensed. The work isn't to stressful and the shift suits me.
As there is a shortage of engineers, there are many companies who are looking for licensed and unlicensed engineers. If you work hard, fill in your SOE and have you basics you will be given a course. If you don't mind working on Metros or other group 1 aircraft, after about a year of filling out your 1,5,6 and 10 SOE with a good company, you can earn about 75000 on shift with no course required!
There are opportunities to earn around 100K once you get a group 20 license.
With the average age of LAMEs being so high, more aircraft operating in Australia and not enough engineers being trained, there will be no shortage of jobs for engineers in the future.
I suggest that most of the people who tell you not do a QF apprenticeship are the ones who want everything handed to them on a plate and are too damn lazy to get off there arse and work for it.
It beats me how unblocking someones drain or installing someones oven could a better job than working on multi million dollar aircraft, you may get the big dollars a year or 2 quicker in other trades but in the long run, you can get pad just as well if not better fixing aircraft. Sure there are the mundane jobs but if you score a line job like I have then most of the work is pretty good!
The opportunities are out there, you just have to ask questions and find them!
For those of you who failed in your ambitions to be a rich QF LAME, please do not try to discourage others to justify your own choices!!!
If you really want to work on aircraft for a living then go for it. You will be a lot happier doing that than doing something you don't like for the sake of 10-20K a year. And if you do need the money then just hunt around for it cause its there!!!!
I moved to Perth after completing an apprenticeship with QF and I have had no problems finding well paid work for an AME with good career progression towards getting licensed. The work isn't to stressful and the shift suits me.
As there is a shortage of engineers, there are many companies who are looking for licensed and unlicensed engineers. If you work hard, fill in your SOE and have you basics you will be given a course. If you don't mind working on Metros or other group 1 aircraft, after about a year of filling out your 1,5,6 and 10 SOE with a good company, you can earn about 75000 on shift with no course required!
There are opportunities to earn around 100K once you get a group 20 license.
With the average age of LAMEs being so high, more aircraft operating in Australia and not enough engineers being trained, there will be no shortage of jobs for engineers in the future.
I suggest that most of the people who tell you not do a QF apprenticeship are the ones who want everything handed to them on a plate and are too damn lazy to get off there arse and work for it.
It beats me how unblocking someones drain or installing someones oven could a better job than working on multi million dollar aircraft, you may get the big dollars a year or 2 quicker in other trades but in the long run, you can get pad just as well if not better fixing aircraft. Sure there are the mundane jobs but if you score a line job like I have then most of the work is pretty good!
The opportunities are out there, you just have to ask questions and find them!
For those of you who failed in your ambitions to be a rich QF LAME, please do not try to discourage others to justify your own choices!!!
If you really want to work on aircraft for a living then go for it. You will be a lot happier doing that than doing something you don't like for the sake of 10-20K a year. And if you do need the money then just hunt around for it cause its there!!!!
Last edited by IFOT; 23rd Apr 2008 at 13:52.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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follow your dreams
AME and LAME is an awesome career. Get you Cert IV in aeroskills and complete an apprenticship and work hard. Too may Y gen people out there want everything haned to them on a platter and they want it now. And too there are too many old school LAME with their head in the sand that keep telling everyone that all our conditions are being erroded away. Once you are a qualified AME try contracting instead of working for an MRO. And work on getting your SOE on Group 20 to get a licence asap. Contractors are paid 20% more than permies, just remember you get not holiday or sick leave.
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im an ame and i recommend to do another trade unless you really love the jet, its bad money, very low moral, boring, training is very unorganised, no job security, just to name a few. even if you do your basics and type courses you will join the Que of many ame's with self funded licenses not getting reconised by the company