Engineers - Keep Your Status!
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I Eng.
Litebulbs
Try http://www.raes.org.uk/ and then follow "membership joining and upgrading" then to "membership-individuals" and at the bottom of this page "CLICK HERE" and then select "GI Eng" this leaflet will give you all the information that you need to make a decision on your own circumstances regarding an application to join.
If you go to the C Eng route I think that the TRO costs are pretty stiff, I think that its £500 ish at the moment, and annual renewals are
£177 for MRAes plus £26 for Engineering Council fees.
The applications and interviews are not meant to be daunting, I help out as an assessor for C Eng and I Eng applications, and have recieved training on exactly how assessors should do the job, please don't be put off by horror stories about the process. the RAeS will also provide a mentor to help and advise at all steps in the process.
I think that any B1/B2/C licensed guy with a bit of experience can register as I Eng without any problems, and should be able to complete the TRO route for C Eng with some application
Best regards,
om15
Try http://www.raes.org.uk/ and then follow "membership joining and upgrading" then to "membership-individuals" and at the bottom of this page "CLICK HERE" and then select "GI Eng" this leaflet will give you all the information that you need to make a decision on your own circumstances regarding an application to join.
If you go to the C Eng route I think that the TRO costs are pretty stiff, I think that its £500 ish at the moment, and annual renewals are
£177 for MRAes plus £26 for Engineering Council fees.
The applications and interviews are not meant to be daunting, I help out as an assessor for C Eng and I Eng applications, and have recieved training on exactly how assessors should do the job, please don't be put off by horror stories about the process. the RAeS will also provide a mentor to help and advise at all steps in the process.
I think that any B1/B2/C licensed guy with a bit of experience can register as I Eng without any problems, and should be able to complete the TRO route for C Eng with some application
Best regards,
om15
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Thanks all
I am a B2 and C with 20+ years experinence, of which 10+ is certifying and I have accumulated a fair amount of cover in this time. Could I talk about the socio-economic impact of a TCAS mod? No. Is this the sort of subject matter that I would have to research before applying for an I Eng? I will have another look at the web site and any further advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am a B2 and C with 20+ years experinence, of which 10+ is certifying and I have accumulated a fair amount of cover in this time. Could I talk about the socio-economic impact of a TCAS mod? No. Is this the sort of subject matter that I would have to research before applying for an I Eng? I will have another look at the web site and any further advice would be greatly appreciated.
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hi McAero,
No I haven't had involvement there, about 3 or 4 years ago the RAeS sent round a circular to members who were registered C Eng requesting people to volunteer to be Technical assessors, this involved training at Hamilton Place by the RAeS and the Engineering Council, this dealt with the changes to the methods of registration and standards required, and instructions for assessors, my role has been purely technical, and I have no experience of the Review assessment process that was described by Blacksheep, or any of the other many activities carried out by the RAeS.
The theme of this thread is the standing in society of Engineers, although those of us that work in aviation have varied qualifications, HNC, Degrees, AMEL etc, the RAeS does provide a means of registering with the Engineering Council in a grade that is perhaps more commonly recognised by general society than our own specific qualifications.
As mentioned earlier, what is important is how we see ourselves and do our jobs, if the public don't understand what an AMEL is, well does it really matter?
If a car salesman takes a PPL in his spare time, he is quite entitled to stroll around descibing himself as a pilot, we know this isn't quite the same as 10,000 hour 747 Captain, all a matter perception by the public really.
Best regards,
om15
No I haven't had involvement there, about 3 or 4 years ago the RAeS sent round a circular to members who were registered C Eng requesting people to volunteer to be Technical assessors, this involved training at Hamilton Place by the RAeS and the Engineering Council, this dealt with the changes to the methods of registration and standards required, and instructions for assessors, my role has been purely technical, and I have no experience of the Review assessment process that was described by Blacksheep, or any of the other many activities carried out by the RAeS.
The theme of this thread is the standing in society of Engineers, although those of us that work in aviation have varied qualifications, HNC, Degrees, AMEL etc, the RAeS does provide a means of registering with the Engineering Council in a grade that is perhaps more commonly recognised by general society than our own specific qualifications.
As mentioned earlier, what is important is how we see ourselves and do our jobs, if the public don't understand what an AMEL is, well does it really matter?
If a car salesman takes a PPL in his spare time, he is quite entitled to stroll around descibing himself as a pilot, we know this isn't quite the same as 10,000 hour 747 Captain, all a matter perception by the public really.
Best regards,
om15
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Litebulbs,
Sure, have a read of the web site, all the gen is in there somewhere, if you need further info or do decide to proceed, then pm me, and if I can be of help, only too happy to do so,
Best regards, om15
Sure, have a read of the web site, all the gen is in there somewhere, if you need further info or do decide to proceed, then pm me, and if I can be of help, only too happy to do so,
Best regards, om15
Cunning Artificer
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If you're a 'C' license LAME with 20 years experience you'll have no difficulty at all in registering as an Incorporated Engineer Litebulbs (Though making the leap from there to CEng without the basic MEng degree is a considerable challenge. Personally, I'm working towards Chartered Manager as that is where my academic qualifications lie, but I'll always describe my profession as "Engineer".)
Applicants for IEng must be able to demonstrate an understanding of the position of the engineer's role in society within the bounds of what they do: I was in Technical Services and things like TCAS mods were routine stuff. You're running Base Maintenance checks so think of the benefits and responsibilites to society associated with that role. You know them well enough, so it should be no problem.
The RAeS make a better cup of tea than the CAA too.
Applicants for IEng must be able to demonstrate an understanding of the position of the engineer's role in society within the bounds of what they do: I was in Technical Services and things like TCAS mods were routine stuff. You're running Base Maintenance checks so think of the benefits and responsibilites to society associated with that role. You know them well enough, so it should be no problem.
The RAeS make a better cup of tea than the CAA too.
Last edited by Blacksheep; 3rd Mar 2007 at 13:51.
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Worked in France, title engineer very controlled: Advantage was you said you where an engineer you pulled women the same way a doctor did 
(ok I was young and they thought engineers had money )
Austria, the apartment door bells have the Ing in front of the Surname, just like a Dr.
Germany, well Germany you need to spend years in uni and be a doctor of eng before you get anywhere, look at say Luftansa manager titles, it is scary the amount of Dr's etc (so your working life spent paying of student debts)
Back to UK and yes I was back to level of respect with the photocopier repair man, so job title became "In aviation business" much better starting line
Why did I leave europe. MONEY
You can call me "chief bottle washer" as long as you pay me enough.
Respect/disrepect for title does not pay the bills and to be honest when I get business cards followed by all those titles I can only but smile to myself and think pl**ker.
Regarding the bank registering the engineers as semi-skilled. Actually all the bank is worried about is money that you are paid, not title, so if you think respect for engineer is going to get you a bigger house loan, dream on. Graduates of nearly all titles they give leeway as on average they earn more in the longer term so the bank has a better prospect of getting bigger fees on transactions (Dr in ancient greek classics etc excepted)
And me, I am a BEng(Aero) and other stuff, but that gets you only your first job (and you start as a run around for the more mature engineers as nothing as dangerous as a newly minted graduate who thinks he/she knows it all)
Just respect everybody, regardless of title (except divorce lawyers)
(ok I was young and they thought engineers had money )Austria, the apartment door bells have the Ing in front of the Surname, just like a Dr.
Germany, well Germany you need to spend years in uni and be a doctor of eng before you get anywhere, look at say Luftansa manager titles, it is scary the amount of Dr's etc (so your working life spent paying of student debts)
Back to UK and yes I was back to level of respect with the photocopier repair man, so job title became "In aviation business" much better starting line
Why did I leave europe. MONEY
You can call me "chief bottle washer" as long as you pay me enough.
Respect/disrepect for title does not pay the bills and to be honest when I get business cards followed by all those titles I can only but smile to myself and think pl**ker.
Regarding the bank registering the engineers as semi-skilled. Actually all the bank is worried about is money that you are paid, not title, so if you think respect for engineer is going to get you a bigger house loan, dream on. Graduates of nearly all titles they give leeway as on average they earn more in the longer term so the bank has a better prospect of getting bigger fees on transactions (Dr in ancient greek classics etc excepted)
And me, I am a BEng(Aero) and other stuff, but that gets you only your first job (and you start as a run around for the more mature engineers as nothing as dangerous as a newly minted graduate who thinks he/she knows it all)
Just respect everybody, regardless of title (except divorce lawyers)
A number of years ago the chairman of the licensed engineers group within the RAES (Ron Forrester) attended a seminar or similar meeting attended by a large number of the other UK professional engineering bodies. Institute of marine engineers, electrical engineers, e.t.c.
He gave a briefing on the "licensed engineer" and the scope of the engineers licence.
After the meeting a large number of people from the other bodies expressed their amazement at the scope and level of responsibilty that was placed on the licensed aircraft engineer.
Licensed engineers should never sell themselves short.
He gave a briefing on the "licensed engineer" and the scope of the engineers licence.
After the meeting a large number of people from the other bodies expressed their amazement at the scope and level of responsibilty that was placed on the licensed aircraft engineer.
Licensed engineers should never sell themselves short.
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What a load of b0ll0cks all of you primadonna "engineers" talk. It's just a job which involves a bit of responsibility. I'm sure that some of you guys walk out of your front doors in the morning with your (well travelled) nav bags with all the stickers attached feeling very proud and hoping that the pretty young neighbour at No 23 is watching you and thinking how important you must be, especially if you wear stripes! And down at the pub you'll be the centre of attraction as you recall decisions that you've had to make to ensure the safety of the travelling public. I bet you don't recall the bogs and basins that you've had to unblock or the times you spend up to your elbows in grease and cr@p, that's not so impressive is it? I believe that the true engineers designed and built the aircraft and we as licenced personnel maintain them. What's in a name when there's a nappy stuck down a lav?
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As an apprentice engineer I have witnessed that the term "Engineer" is by far and away overused and has lost much of its true definition.
Many people in workplaces are referred to as "Engineers", yet all they do is paperwork. This is absolutely NOT engineering. It is Administration.
Engineers are involved in the design, development, manufacture, test and maintenance of products, whether they be circuit boards, bridges across rivers, aeroplanes, cars, whatever. Producing paperwork is NOT "Engineering", never has been and never will be, and nobody who does can call themselves "Engineers".
I cannot call myself an "Engineer" either however, I am merely an apprentice just now, almost finished my Electronics HNC, doing my Mech Eng HNC starting September. However I will be an "Eng" once I'm done with College.
This obsession with "Engineering" titles is merely one part of the modern fad of Office Wallahs inventing new job titles to sex up there boring, mundane and generally completely unecissary Office Wallah jobs where they sit on the internet all day, e-mail their mates and generally bum about. Think about it. "Engineer" sounds interesting. Certainly a lot more so than "Jobsworth who does unecissary paperwork". Also it makes the advert in the jobs section of the paper sound more attractive.
P.S. Spannerhead - nothing wrong with getting the hands dirty, real engineers always do
Many people in workplaces are referred to as "Engineers", yet all they do is paperwork. This is absolutely NOT engineering. It is Administration.
Engineers are involved in the design, development, manufacture, test and maintenance of products, whether they be circuit boards, bridges across rivers, aeroplanes, cars, whatever. Producing paperwork is NOT "Engineering", never has been and never will be, and nobody who does can call themselves "Engineers".
I cannot call myself an "Engineer" either however, I am merely an apprentice just now, almost finished my Electronics HNC, doing my Mech Eng HNC starting September. However I will be an "Eng" once I'm done with College.
This obsession with "Engineering" titles is merely one part of the modern fad of Office Wallahs inventing new job titles to sex up there boring, mundane and generally completely unecissary Office Wallah jobs where they sit on the internet all day, e-mail their mates and generally bum about. Think about it. "Engineer" sounds interesting. Certainly a lot more so than "Jobsworth who does unecissary paperwork". Also it makes the advert in the jobs section of the paper sound more attractive.
P.S. Spannerhead - nothing wrong with getting the hands dirty, real engineers always do
Last edited by Captain Smithy; 4th Apr 2007 at 18:35. Reason: Addendum
Cunning Artificer
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Many people in workplaces are referred to as "Engineers", yet all they do is paperwork. This is absolutely NOT engineering. It is Administration.
What's in a name when there's a nappy stuck down a lav?
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Blacksheep
"I'm not sure anyone in the drafting office would agree with you though..."
Ah, no worries, since draughting is part of the design process. I've always been a bit crap at draughting (drawings that is, not farting
) though.
I had a read at the petition, I agree with where they're coming from however I think it's a bit pompous to say that you can only be called an "Engineer" if you are University-educated. That's a bit unfair surely to all of those who have worked hard for Engineering qualifications below Uni level and are in Engineering jobs. Also, plumbers and electricians etc. are technically engineers since they are doing engineering work of a sort (focusing on the maintenance/repair side of things). As I have said previously, what I do reject however is people who, for example, sit doing paperwork all day or any other non-engineering work being called "Engineers". I think this is one of the reasons why Engineers and indeed Engineering as a whole is very undervalued in Britain today.
"I'm not sure anyone in the drafting office would agree with you though..."
Ah, no worries, since draughting is part of the design process. I've always been a bit crap at draughting (drawings that is, not farting
) though.I had a read at the petition, I agree with where they're coming from however I think it's a bit pompous to say that you can only be called an "Engineer" if you are University-educated. That's a bit unfair surely to all of those who have worked hard for Engineering qualifications below Uni level and are in Engineering jobs. Also, plumbers and electricians etc. are technically engineers since they are doing engineering work of a sort (focusing on the maintenance/repair side of things). As I have said previously, what I do reject however is people who, for example, sit doing paperwork all day or any other non-engineering work being called "Engineers". I think this is one of the reasons why Engineers and indeed Engineering as a whole is very undervalued in Britain today.
Cunning Artificer
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Drafting or Draughting? - depends on your orientation. I've been working American aircraft for 30 years and the American English tends to rub off on you.
Our Head of Engineering attends meetings and does paperwork all day and I think the last time he used his tools on an aeroplane was about twenty years ago. I reckon he's still an Engineer though. Same goes for me - and neither of us has an engineering degree. My brother holds a PhD in Civil Engineering and he designs and builds power stations. He hasn't mixed any cement or laid a brick in thirty years, but don't try telling him he's not an Engineer.
...what I do reject however is people who, for example, sit doing paperwork all day or any other non-engineering work being called "Engineers"
spannerhead, you got it partially right.
However, I save the bogs n basins story, complete with nappy and needles just when it's my round.
It's strange, no one seems to want to accept a drink out of ones grubby mits after that.
However, I save the bogs n basins story, complete with nappy and needles just when it's my round.
It's strange, no one seems to want to accept a drink out of ones grubby mits after that.
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"I had a read at the petition, I agree with where they're coming from however I think it's a bit pompous to say that you can only be called an "Engineer" if you are University-educated. That's a bit unfair surely to all of those who have worked hard for Engineering qualifications below Uni level and are in Engineering jobs. "
The teachers went down the road of you can only teach if you have a degree, and look where it has got them!
The Royal Aeronautical Society's magazine Aerospace has an article on the society setting up a group to further enhance the status of the aircraft Engineer, things are looking promising for the future
The teachers went down the road of you can only teach if you have a degree, and look where it has got them!
The Royal Aeronautical Society's magazine Aerospace has an article on the society setting up a group to further enhance the status of the aircraft Engineer, things are looking promising for the future
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This petition is not about keeping the status of the Engineer but about changing the meaning of the word "Engineer" in every day use 
. I think Licensed aircraft maintenance Engineers should be more concerned about protecting the licence they worked hard for.
Even the ALAE do not support this petition.
. I think Licensed aircraft maintenance Engineers should be more concerned about protecting the licence they worked hard for.Even the ALAE do not support this petition.