JAA License part 145/66/BCAR Why bother....?
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JAA License part 145/66/BCAR Why bother....?
OK, thought that would get your attention!
Can anyone help? I have had some conflicting advice from various engineers and CAA officials.
I was explaining my training route to an engineer who was rebuilding a Continental engine. He said "Why waste your time...?" He (somehow) does not need a license. He often had the CAA down to question him about where all his tools are and how he lables all his spares shelves, etc. but that's it.
I pointed out that I want a license so I can work on various planes as and when I need to - not just engines. He referred me to two different mechanics who have been in the trade for more than 10 years each (one of them is running a successful aircraft maintenance business on an airfirld). I called the CAA and asked them if I need a license. They said YES! So (without mentioning names) I asked how some people can operate without and they said "....Are..... well... em .... thats because ....... er ..... well that's different ....em what I mean is .... well anyway ... YOU have got to get one!"
Can anyone clear this up? Do you need a license or not? If not, what on earth is all the fuss about? If you do, then how is it that some mechanics have never had one and have been practising for many years (without another licensed mechanic on site)?
Can anyone help? I have had some conflicting advice from various engineers and CAA officials.
I was explaining my training route to an engineer who was rebuilding a Continental engine. He said "Why waste your time...?" He (somehow) does not need a license. He often had the CAA down to question him about where all his tools are and how he lables all his spares shelves, etc. but that's it.
I pointed out that I want a license so I can work on various planes as and when I need to - not just engines. He referred me to two different mechanics who have been in the trade for more than 10 years each (one of them is running a successful aircraft maintenance business on an airfirld). I called the CAA and asked them if I need a license. They said YES! So (without mentioning names) I asked how some people can operate without and they said "....Are..... well... em .... thats because ....... er ..... well that's different ....em what I mean is .... well anyway ... YOU have got to get one!"
Can anyone clear this up? Do you need a license or not? If not, what on earth is all the fuss about? If you do, then how is it that some mechanics have never had one and have been practising for many years (without another licensed mechanic on site)?
Without knowing their real situations...
I believe the guy building an engine may have qualified for a CAA "D" licence - but the CAA don't issue those now!
The guy you say is doing maintenance may actually be doing "B" licence work. Similar story.
In either case, there are things called "Exemptions". I worked under CAA approvals and exemptions when I worked for a UK-based flying club in Germany!
Ask them if they can do Annual Star Maintenance, or recommend for a C of A.
I believe the guy building an engine may have qualified for a CAA "D" licence - but the CAA don't issue those now!
The guy you say is doing maintenance may actually be doing "B" licence work. Similar story.
In either case, there are things called "Exemptions". I worked under CAA approvals and exemptions when I worked for a UK-based flying club in Germany!
Ask them if they can do Annual Star Maintenance, or recommend for a C of A.
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OK so.......
Thanks for that Rigga.
Still not too sure though. It is making me wonder if I am wasting my time!?
I have only spoken to one of the engineers and he is extremely busy. He has just finished an annual and was removing an engine from another warrior. He did let it out that he has to get a mate to sign off any C of As but I am still not too sure about the whole setup. He is reluctant to answer too many questions about licenses but is extremely busy and does not seem too concerned about the fact that he has no license at all. He is running an M3 company which he bought from a retired engineer.
The engine builder told me the CAA does not issue the type of license he has now but that you no longer need one. All you need is premises and as soon as the CAA approves your premises ...... that's it! You are in business!!! If this is correct then what on earth is the point of going through all the grief and time of passing exams and getting certified? If I understand it correctly, you still may not be able to do a C of A once you pass the test and get your license....?
Any advice or pointers appreciated.
Still not too sure though. It is making me wonder if I am wasting my time!?
I have only spoken to one of the engineers and he is extremely busy. He has just finished an annual and was removing an engine from another warrior. He did let it out that he has to get a mate to sign off any C of As but I am still not too sure about the whole setup. He is reluctant to answer too many questions about licenses but is extremely busy and does not seem too concerned about the fact that he has no license at all. He is running an M3 company which he bought from a retired engineer.
The engine builder told me the CAA does not issue the type of license he has now but that you no longer need one. All you need is premises and as soon as the CAA approves your premises ...... that's it! You are in business!!! If this is correct then what on earth is the point of going through all the grief and time of passing exams and getting certified? If I understand it correctly, you still may not be able to do a C of A once you pass the test and get your license....?
Any advice or pointers appreciated.
M3 organisations stopped being approved in 2004 (I think). From then onwards, only Part-145 organisations were allowed to start-up. (I know that cos I helped start one).
Your friends are alright to carry on until they want to sell-up or move on. I believe they can't hand over an M3 to another owner (post 2004) until it's made up to Part-145, in which case, they will then require a Licenced Engineer (as Chf Eng) to sign off the jobs they do now.
Building Piston Engines has always been a back-room job, not particularly thought of as an "Aircraft" job - more as a component - My apologies for the way that is written, but it shows the way Deep-Strips are thought of. It is a very specialist job (Hats-off to him) but it has been pushed to the back for some reason I cant think of now.
The advantanges of having a Licence over not having one:
Hope this helps.
Your friends are alright to carry on until they want to sell-up or move on. I believe they can't hand over an M3 to another owner (post 2004) until it's made up to Part-145, in which case, they will then require a Licenced Engineer (as Chf Eng) to sign off the jobs they do now.
Building Piston Engines has always been a back-room job, not particularly thought of as an "Aircraft" job - more as a component - My apologies for the way that is written, but it shows the way Deep-Strips are thought of. It is a very specialist job (Hats-off to him) but it has been pushed to the back for some reason I cant think of now.
The advantanges of having a Licence over not having one:
a) Its yours - it moves from job to job with you. You may/could be stuck at a place you dont like, with an non-transferable qualification.
b) It demonstrates (world-wide) to others what your level of knowledge is. Would you fly in an airplane with a pilot who didnt have a licence?
c) It may give you some level of 'seniority' over others, if its required - and possibly more pay too!
d) If you had one, you may be able to do the C of A's yourself - without paying some else to do it!
Lastly, It may pave the way for you to expand on your knowledge and into other types - using your (B1.2?) Licence as a starting point. (I have B1.1, B1.2, B1.4)b) It demonstrates (world-wide) to others what your level of knowledge is. Would you fly in an airplane with a pilot who didnt have a licence?
c) It may give you some level of 'seniority' over others, if its required - and possibly more pay too!
d) If you had one, you may be able to do the C of A's yourself - without paying some else to do it!
Hope this helps.
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Starting a Part 145 Shop
Thanks again for that.
You have been very helpful. You say you helped someone start a part 145 workshop? Is there a list of criterior/objectives to cover, etc before you will be approved?
I looked at a small airfield for sale recently. It went for 90K in the end. It had a lovely new hangar (at least the floor was brand new). It had almost 5 acres of runway and parking! I just did not have the money to go ahead and there was not enough time to research whether I would have been likely to get a part 145 cert.
Any advice on this? Is there a document setting out the requirements? I am also wondering what you actually need to start up in engine rebuilds or prop overhauls, etc. I find the CAA website extremely difficult to navigate and distinctly lacking in any real useful information on these matters.
Again, thanks.
You have been very helpful. You say you helped someone start a part 145 workshop? Is there a list of criterior/objectives to cover, etc before you will be approved?
I looked at a small airfield for sale recently. It went for 90K in the end. It had a lovely new hangar (at least the floor was brand new). It had almost 5 acres of runway and parking! I just did not have the money to go ahead and there was not enough time to research whether I would have been likely to get a part 145 cert.
Any advice on this? Is there a document setting out the requirements? I am also wondering what you actually need to start up in engine rebuilds or prop overhauls, etc. I find the CAA website extremely difficult to navigate and distinctly lacking in any real useful information on these matters.
Again, thanks.
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Sorry I can't give you any links, having real problems with my broadband connection.
If you go the the EASA website, google for EASA 145, that document tells you what you need with regard to personnel, their qualifications, tools equipment etc etc. You would I think go to the CAA if in the UK for the approval, if you go to the CAA website there is info on there as well.
Or the easiest thing may be to contact your local CAA surveyor for guidance. Unfortunately with EASA at the moment, you will not get the same answer from 2 different surveyors. Confused, they certainly are!
What has been mentioned above is 'Grandfather Rights' you basically retain them when the rules and regs changed, as said, once you leave or move elsewhere you can not take those rights with you, if you have a B1 or B2 licence with type ratings you take those with you. Not cheap though, I've recently converted my BCAR to an EASA licence and it wa almost £500. It's going to cost me some more yet as I have just completed all the modules to remove the restrictions from the licence, that's another £90 and then another £90 to remove them from each type.
If you go the the EASA website, google for EASA 145, that document tells you what you need with regard to personnel, their qualifications, tools equipment etc etc. You would I think go to the CAA if in the UK for the approval, if you go to the CAA website there is info on there as well.
Or the easiest thing may be to contact your local CAA surveyor for guidance. Unfortunately with EASA at the moment, you will not get the same answer from 2 different surveyors. Confused, they certainly are!
What has been mentioned above is 'Grandfather Rights' you basically retain them when the rules and regs changed, as said, once you leave or move elsewhere you can not take those rights with you, if you have a B1 or B2 licence with type ratings you take those with you. Not cheap though, I've recently converted my BCAR to an EASA licence and it wa almost £500. It's going to cost me some more yet as I have just completed all the modules to remove the restrictions from the licence, that's another £90 and then another £90 to remove them from each type.
Go to:
http://www.easa.eu.int/home/regul_en.html
Download:
Regulations – Part 145 - and also Acceptable Means of Compliance & Guidance Material to Part 145
A read through all these (how much?) will consist of a Guide for what to do.
When you wake up, you should understand some of the complexities of the hoops they want you to go through.
When you have some further understanding, and want to go further still, ask the CAA for info on setting-up.
As Spanners says, there is a cost to Licensing, and more for setting up your own Company - There is costs for anything in UK - but I believe those particular can be worth it.
Best of luck!
If you want any more PM me.
Rigga
http://www.easa.eu.int/home/regul_en.html
Download:
Regulations – Part 145 - and also Acceptable Means of Compliance & Guidance Material to Part 145
A read through all these (how much?) will consist of a Guide for what to do.
When you wake up, you should understand some of the complexities of the hoops they want you to go through.
When you have some further understanding, and want to go further still, ask the CAA for info on setting-up.
As Spanners says, there is a cost to Licensing, and more for setting up your own Company - There is costs for anything in UK - but I believe those particular can be worth it.
Best of luck!
If you want any more PM me.
Rigga
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Good Information...
Thanks Spanner and Rigga, that is useful.
I can't help wondering if the regs are put together to carefully find a way of extracting the most possible money from us ........ rather than to ensure safety standards.....?
Anyway, thanks, I shall read through that stuff.
PPiper
I can't help wondering if the regs are put together to carefully find a way of extracting the most possible money from us ........ rather than to ensure safety standards.....?
Anyway, thanks, I shall read through that stuff.
PPiper
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Grandfather rights....
Sorry there's just one more thing....
Is it possible to have grandfather rights when you dont have and have never had a license of any sort? This is the situation with one of the engineers I mentioned. As I have said, I dont' want to mention any names but he has been trading for many years and is very busy. He even has other engineers working under him and shows them what to do but I know he has no license at all.
I suppose this really goes back to my original question. I know he is waiting for - and expecting - part 145 approval but I also know he has no license at all. If you recall, I had been told "you do not need a license anymore .... just a part 145 aproval, which is on premises not staff...." OK, OK I will read the bumph on the website !
Is it possible to have grandfather rights when you dont have and have never had a license of any sort? This is the situation with one of the engineers I mentioned. As I have said, I dont' want to mention any names but he has been trading for many years and is very busy. He even has other engineers working under him and shows them what to do but I know he has no license at all.
I suppose this really goes back to my original question. I know he is waiting for - and expecting - part 145 approval but I also know he has no license at all. If you recall, I had been told "you do not need a license anymore .... just a part 145 aproval, which is on premises not staff...." OK, OK I will read the bumph on the website !
