counting the pennies
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hippy - to return to the start of this topic, we should be aiming for pay parity with the Capt's within our airlines.
If you took into account the enormous financial impact our decisions can have (operational consequenses,spares charges,return from lease penalties,etc,etc) this would not be at all unreasonable, never mind safety considerations as the bean counters don't give a monkey's about them.
If you took into account the enormous financial impact our decisions can have (operational consequenses,spares charges,return from lease penalties,etc,etc) this would not be at all unreasonable, never mind safety considerations as the bean counters don't give a monkey's about them.
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,125
Likes: 7
From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
WenWe,
Surely not ALL engineers should be on Captain's pay! There has to be some element of progression.
Nevertheless our compensation package for First Officers was fully revealed in cash terms in Rumours and News recently. I couldn't help noting the fact that our First Officers' salary, including all allowances and benefits, is higher than that of the Director of Engineering. (and all the other Departmental Heads apart from the Director of Flight Operations) Surely that shows a slight element of disproportion? I just came out of a presentation on costs given by Airbus in which it was revealed that flight crew salary exceeds the total accumulated cost of ALL engineering by a factor of 27%. We were told that in some countries labour rates are only US$10 an hour!!!! Now I'm not suggesting that pilots are overpaid, nor whingeing about their salaries. Flight crews are NOT overpaid. Compared to others with similar backgound and responsibility in the economy in general, flight crews are paid what they are worth. It is the rest of us in the aviation world who are being taken for a ride, and it us that are picking up the tab for the punters cheap air fares.
De-regulation? Don't make me laugh!
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Surely not ALL engineers should be on Captain's pay! There has to be some element of progression.
Nevertheless our compensation package for First Officers was fully revealed in cash terms in Rumours and News recently. I couldn't help noting the fact that our First Officers' salary, including all allowances and benefits, is higher than that of the Director of Engineering. (and all the other Departmental Heads apart from the Director of Flight Operations) Surely that shows a slight element of disproportion? I just came out of a presentation on costs given by Airbus in which it was revealed that flight crew salary exceeds the total accumulated cost of ALL engineering by a factor of 27%. We were told that in some countries labour rates are only US$10 an hour!!!! Now I'm not suggesting that pilots are overpaid, nor whingeing about their salaries. Flight crews are NOT overpaid. Compared to others with similar backgound and responsibility in the economy in general, flight crews are paid what they are worth. It is the rest of us in the aviation world who are being taken for a ride, and it us that are picking up the tab for the punters cheap air fares.
De-regulation? Don't make me laugh!
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Guest
Posts: n/a
I knew you folks would get the picture. If the airlines can afford the pilots, they can afford us. The quicker they warm up to the idea of real pay for real skills, the quicker they can stem the loss of quality due to low wages in our field. If you are interested, go to http://www.amfa33.org to see how we are handling the problem in the US.
Now get organized and get on with it. Get a dog that will hunt. Do you want to wait for the "market" to raise wages for you?
Now get organized and get on with it. Get a dog that will hunt. Do you want to wait for the "market" to raise wages for you?
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm not sure about this,but do A.L.A.E. have union status in the eyes of the law. I believe they were striving towards this a few years ago, but I have lost touch with the current situation. If they do hold union status we should all join. Surely this will give us the same collective clout as BALPA has. Anybody agree with this line of thought or any similar ideas???? 
[This message has been edited by SchmiteGoBust (edited 11 October 2000).]
[This message has been edited by SchmiteGoBust (edited 11 October 2000).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Scmite, don't just join if they have union status, join now, it's only a quid a week and if you are a member, you can decide how you want to be represented. The more people in it the better. Spread the word the more L.A.M.E 's as members the more recognition it will get and with that more clout. As previous posts have said, we need to raise the profile of our down-trodden profession and maybe then we will start to get the respect and loadsa money we deserve.
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is from about the 2nd page of the alae website at http://www.lae.mcmail.com
take note of the 2nd and 3rd sentences.
Associations are, by definition, a body of persons joined together for a common purpose. The ALAE is an Association registered as an Independent Trade Union. As such we may negotiate the terms and conditions for members where the ALAE is recognised by the Company.
Licensed Aircraft Engineers formed the ALAE when the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority were looking to abolish the License that many Engineers held with pride - especially as it had been earned through personal effort, experience and knowledge.
Aircraft are increasingly becoming more sophisticated and, again, efforts have been made to remove the Engineers Licence. The ALAE has had to apply pressure to both the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority and the European Joint Aviation Authority.
Engineers are the lifeblood of any Industrial organisation. The Aviation Industry is no exception. Its Engineers - many of whom are members of the ALAE - help to ensure the smooth, safe, low profile operation of that Industry.
Registered office:
Bourn House
8, Park Street
Bagshot
Surrey GU19 5AQ
Tel. ++44 (0)1276 474888
Fax. ++44 (0)1276 452767
take note of the 2nd and 3rd sentences.
Associations are, by definition, a body of persons joined together for a common purpose. The ALAE is an Association registered as an Independent Trade Union. As such we may negotiate the terms and conditions for members where the ALAE is recognised by the Company.
Licensed Aircraft Engineers formed the ALAE when the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority were looking to abolish the License that many Engineers held with pride - especially as it had been earned through personal effort, experience and knowledge.
Aircraft are increasingly becoming more sophisticated and, again, efforts have been made to remove the Engineers Licence. The ALAE has had to apply pressure to both the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority and the European Joint Aviation Authority.
Engineers are the lifeblood of any Industrial organisation. The Aviation Industry is no exception. Its Engineers - many of whom are members of the ALAE - help to ensure the smooth, safe, low profile operation of that Industry.
Registered office:
Bourn House
8, Park Street
Bagshot
Surrey GU19 5AQ
Tel. ++44 (0)1276 474888
Fax. ++44 (0)1276 452767
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,125
Likes: 7
From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
I just visited the site and found that they have a much improved approach since the last time I paid any attention. Much work is still needed to bring the Association up to the mark before it will be taken really seriously in the corridors of power, but the foundation seems well laid. If enough people join, the necessary talents will become available.
Count me in.
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Count me in.
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Guest
Posts: n/a
OK Hippy,
You asked for a figure, here goes.
I'd be happy with 30 quid an hour. I do AT LEAST 200 hrs a month = 6000.
OK, jockeys sometimes do a good job and yes they have a lot of responsibility so give 'em 50 an hour. They do approx 80 hrs a month = 4000 plus the flt pay, expenses, makeup allowance etc.etc. = 6000.
Everybody is happy ???????
P.S. Anyone know how I can get a pound sign for my f*****g laptop.
------------------
So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or vitrtue,
as you choose!"
You asked for a figure, here goes.
I'd be happy with 30 quid an hour. I do AT LEAST 200 hrs a month = 6000.
OK, jockeys sometimes do a good job and yes they have a lot of responsibility so give 'em 50 an hour. They do approx 80 hrs a month = 4000 plus the flt pay, expenses, makeup allowance etc.etc. = 6000.
Everybody is happy ???????
P.S. Anyone know how I can get a pound sign for my f*****g laptop.
------------------
So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or vitrtue,
as you choose!"
Guest
Posts: n/a
£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
As,I,see,it,
Yew Bewty, I owe you a pint and when I get my £30 an hour (permy) I'll buy ya one.
------------------
So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or vitrtue,
as you choose!"
As,I,see,it,
Yew Bewty, I owe you a pint and when I get my £30 an hour (permy) I'll buy ya one.
------------------
So that you may not be the martyred slaves of Time,
get drunk, get drunk,
and never pause for rest!
With wine, poetry, or vitrtue,
as you choose!"
Guest
Posts: n/a
I did 35 an hour for all hours as current contract rate. This is 72800. Sod approval pay & shift pay split of wages, it should be one rate for a LAE. The only reason for spliting payments is for lower company pension contribution, lower OT rate etc.
Still less than a Captain but heading in the right direction. Nearly as much as The Hippy makes with OT!
Still less than a Captain but heading in the right direction. Nearly as much as The Hippy makes with OT!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Come on guys, we need to do more than just chat among ourselves about this!
It is a fact that we Engineers or Techs which ever is politically correct have always been taken for granted. We have just as much power to ground an A/craft than a Pilot, 'actually more!'
When flight crew arn't getting what they want and EXACTLY what they want, they STRIKE! And it happens all over the world with all airlines till they get it!!!!!
And what do we do, we bitch and do NOTHING!
"An air traffic controller can unplug from the console at the end of the day, knowing that the days work is finished. When the flight crew leave the aircraft at the end of a flight, the chances are that any mistakes they made affected that flight only. But when maintenance personnel head home at the end of their shift, they know that the work they performed will be relied on by crew and passengers for days, weeks, and even years in the future!"
It is a fact that we Engineers or Techs which ever is politically correct have always been taken for granted. We have just as much power to ground an A/craft than a Pilot, 'actually more!'
When flight crew arn't getting what they want and EXACTLY what they want, they STRIKE! And it happens all over the world with all airlines till they get it!!!!!
And what do we do, we bitch and do NOTHING!
"An air traffic controller can unplug from the console at the end of the day, knowing that the days work is finished. When the flight crew leave the aircraft at the end of a flight, the chances are that any mistakes they made affected that flight only. But when maintenance personnel head home at the end of their shift, they know that the work they performed will be relied on by crew and passengers for days, weeks, and even years in the future!"
Guest
Posts: n/a
New here. We have been having the same conversation across the pond in Canada. Got quite heated. Here's the link if anyone wants to take a lookee.
http://www.aviatorselect.com/ubb/For...ML/000073.html
http://www.aviatorselect.com/ubb/For...ML/000073.html
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well said A/C slave. As far as I can see it ,the best way forward initially is for all LAE's to join ALAE. Personally I have just sent my membership off as a direct consequence of this thread. I strongly advise all LAE's to join. If the association has membership of the majority of Licensed engineers its profile will be raised and it will have to be taken in the same context as BALPA.
Part of ALAE's manifest is to raise the profile of Engineers. They will not be able to do this without all our support so lets give 'em a fighting chance. CHOCKS AWAY!!!!!!
Part of ALAE's manifest is to raise the profile of Engineers. They will not be able to do this without all our support so lets give 'em a fighting chance. CHOCKS AWAY!!!!!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
If anyone from the ALAE is reading this, could you let us all know if the membership is swelling, or if they have any idea what proportion of current LAE's are members???
The problem with my place is most are also members of the AEU or other unions and they do the negotiations on there behalf, along with the painters, refurbs ect ect ect.
The problem with my place is most are also members of the AEU or other unions and they do the negotiations on there behalf, along with the painters, refurbs ect ect ect.
