Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > Engineers & Technicians
Reload this Page >

Maint. damaged Boeing aircraft investigated

Engineers & Technicians In this day and age of increased CRM and safety awareness, a forum for the guys and girls who keep our a/c serviceable.

Maint. damaged Boeing aircraft investigated

Old 8th Jun 2004, 12:26
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Red face Boeing aircraft investigated

Some food for thought!

Source: The Australian

Damage that occurred recently with two Qantas jumbo jets has encouraged an urgent worldwide examination of Boeing aircraft that has so far uncovered similar problems in more than 40 planes. Qantas grounded the Boeing 747s last year after engineers discovered a potentially devastating 70cm crack in one aircraft's fuselage during maintenance.

The crack was in a strap used to knit sections of the fuselage together during manufacturing and could have led to a serious structural failure if left unrepaired. Marks on the damaged plane indicated the crack had grown from damage caused by the use of metal tools during repainting by previous owner Malaysia Airlines. Similar metal tool marks had now been found worldwide on 32 Boeing 737s, four 747s and seven 757s.



Cejkovice is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2004, 13:19
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 130
Food for Thought indeed!

I believe Ryanair had a similar scare soem time ago with some of their 737-200's. These have now been permanently withdrawn from service.
SNNEI is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2004, 13:37
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 588
I thought Ryanair still operate 732's?
eal401 is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2004, 13:42
  #4 (permalink)  
Too mean to buy a long personal title
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,941
According to this week's Flight, seven withdrawn from service through damage with compensation for the early retirement, 13 more to be retired.
Globaliser is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2004, 16:21
  #5 (permalink)  

Self Loathing Froggy
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: elsewhere
Age: 15
Posts: 546
Not wishing to start any war here, but I'm just wondering how many replies would have fallen onto this thread if it was Company A instead of B ?
Bre901 is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2004, 01:38
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: ex EGNM, now NZRO
Posts: 448
This is old news guys - it was news last year here
Anti Skid On is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2004, 08:36
  #7 (permalink)  
Too mean to buy a long personal title
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,941
No, that's not the news. The news is the additional "32 Boeing 737s, four 747s and seven 757s" on which similar damage has been found. And a good thing too.
Globaliser is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2004, 08:45
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: wales (new south)
Posts: 80
Not wishing to start any war here, but I'm just wondering how many replies would have fallen onto this thread if it was Company A instead of B ?
Well, my bet is plenty more actualy. Why try to reduce this to A v B? What we are talking about is serious structural issues that are causing aircraft to be withdrawn from service early, whats more its not a rumour. Do you not think that this is worth discussing on a professional pilots forum?
RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2004, 09:05
  #9 (permalink)  

Self Loathing Froggy
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: elsewhere
Age: 15
Posts: 546
Do you not think that this is worth discussing on a professional pilots forum?
Yes indeed (although some might think I'm not qualified to have an opinion on that matter )
And I do think that as an SLF, safety matters also to me.

The point I wanted to make is that I am surprised that no discussion started at all.

I'm still thinking that if it had been company A, a heated discussion (to say the least) would have started.
Bre901 is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2004, 15:29
  #10 (permalink)  
Union Goon
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,097
This is a maintenance issue, not an aircraft issue. That is why there has been no disccussion of it.

The companies in question chose to use a substandard paintshop, and they have reaped what they sown.... The perils of contract maintenance. (not a slam on ALL contract maint, but the very real risks when costs become your number one prioirity)


Sooner or later someone will find an Airbus that visited that shop and it to will be a scratch...

A better title on the thread would most likely have drawn more comments and discussion as this is a maint issue, not an aircraft issue.

Cheers
Wino
Wino is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2004, 16:17
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 44
As far as I know the design is different between the bus and the boeing which is why this is only affecting boeing planes. Someone mentioned that the paint shops were following boeing procedures/tooling - can anyone confirm that?

You're right that this may be maintenance companies looking for a quick $$$ but this is certainly something that all of us in the industry need to be aware of as people's lives are possibly at stake which will cost us all many $$$$$ across the industry if planes start breaking up.

Cejk
Cejkovice is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 08:50
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: ex EGNM, now NZRO
Posts: 448
And from the original thread the maintainence was questioned and the firm who did it allegedly no more

Ryanair is removing six 737's - all from the same source as the two QF -400's. Other operators who bought second hand Malaysian aircraft are also quite concerned. It appears Malaysian - who were required by the contract of sale to do the repainting - may have used an incorrect stripper and metallic tools resulting in dissimilar metal corrosion and subsequent fatigue cracking.
by Direct Anywhere

and from Lambeth1
the outfit involved has done many a/c for many airlines,there last stuff up (carried out the same method of sealent removal) was 3 x 777's for an American carrier.which have been subsequently written off.The outfit question is no longer around.
So if the 73's are additional ones, then it is new news.
Anti Skid On is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 10:09
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 44
....and the 757's
Cejkovice is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 10:55
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wilmington
Age: 43
Posts: 134
fish

Not wishing to start any war here, but I'm just wondering how many replies would have fallen onto this thread if it was Company A instead of B ?
What are you wishing to do, then, exactly? Start a "reasoned discussion" between likeminded probability theorists regarding the likely outcome of something which didn't happen?

A flame war is the only logical result of your hypothetical question. So, I guess, *flame*.

Everyone else: Feel free to interupt with pertinent facts and on-subject comments at any time. We'll be over here in the sandbox throwing things and making faces.
TRF4EVR is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 11:28
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: London
Posts: 78
So who do all these aircraft belong to?? Are they still in service or parked up somewhere while someone decides their fate??
Onions is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 13:26
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
Posts: 40
I may be wrong but I was abouring under the impression that one of the RYR 200's that suffered this probem was the Jaguar aircraft...I have flown that STN-DUB recently....Are they operating under a concession from the IAA?

Flight also quotes MO'L as saying that FLS wil pay an est $10M compensation package to RYR for the damage...Interesting as the last I heard FLS were trying to sue MO'L for damages reating to his comments implicating them in the problem - a climb down or MO'L stirring again?
Cytherea is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 15:32
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: western europe
Posts: 1,367
could someone give a Technical summary of how the problem occurred and its effects on the Aircraft?

thanks .....


ps. to think it could cause the Write-off of three 777's is mind boggling!
hobie is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 15:52
  #18 (permalink)  
Union Goon
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,097
What ever they were doing and what ever machinery they were using there was contact with the aluminum skins of the aircraft. If you scratch it you weaken it. and create a weak point that will crack.

Do it in enough places and you total the aircraft because you would be faced with reskinning the whole aircraft, which is practically impossible.

I suspect they had some sort of automated machinery that was miscalibrated or something similar.

There are many ways of stripping paint off an aircraft, some chemical (with fierce envirnmental problems if you are in a country that cares about that) some via impact. sandblasting,( which leaves a contamination problem) I've seen CO2 (dry ice) beads used as well which later evaporate eliminating the contamination problem, but causes other problems. The impact ones are the cleanest, but improper technique will have you cutting metal. You can also have contact from the spray nozzles



Cheers
Wino
Wino is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 17:22
  #19 (permalink)  

UkEng
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: England
Posts: 87
Wino, it's more simple than that. It was the use of metal scrapers (hand tools) removing sealant from lap joints that caused the damage (allegedly).
Not a cause of cost cutting IMO but more of poor training/ignorance.
ukeng is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2004, 17:48
  #20 (permalink)  
Union Goon
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,097
WOW,

if they did that its mind boggling....

No oversight either.... You pay your money and takes your chances....


Cheers
Wino
Wino is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.