Strewth,

I'm with Jarse.

During my time at the Space Base (Cesspit early to mid 80's) both as a student and an instructor, I was taught and later taught, the subtle art of hand swinging a prop.

It is purely by the grace of the deity (of your choice) that I don't have the same nick as Jarse! :D

Maybe he wanted to send his kids solo. (3 at a time, saves $$ ) :D :D

If you haven't been taught properly how to hand swing a prop along with ALL of the precautions, you should not be doing it.

To have children in the aircraft while attempting to hand swing defies belief.

I'm with you Strobes. It's a matter of common sence, not necessarily training.

During a hand start simple common sence dictates someone in the pilots seat, brakes on and chocks.

We've found our man!

This chap would surely be the front runner for the NAS implementation managers job.

Criteria;

-Do something that seems like a good idea at the time because someone told you so

-Don't have a clue what you're doing

-Don't ask anyone who does know how to do it

-Drag a few unsuspecting punters along for the ride

-Inflict havoc upon the industry

-Expend huge amounts of money doing it

-Run like hell when it all turns to 5h!t.


I think the last requirement will probably rule him out. News reports indicate he was running to catch up with the aircraft where as this job has traditionally required the incumbent to make haste in an opposite direction.

Why?
 

Forgive me please for wondering out loud, but why are we more worried about the method of handswinging than asking the question: Why are we handswinging in the first place?

Please don't take this as a personal slight on anyone, but as a general comment on the practice of this procedure.

Why are we trying to get airborne in an arguably/possibly unserviceable aeroplane? How do we know that getting the engine started will result in a serviceable aircraft?

Why was the battery unable to do the job? Was the Master left on, is there a fault with the starter motor or engine that lead to battery discharge during start attempts, is the alternator failed, is the battery failed, are the wires and connectors corroded, frayed or broken, if we get this thing airborne and then have an alternator failed will the battery provide backup power for a reasonable time as expected.

Why on a busy aerodrome surrounded by maintenance organisations would we need to resort to handswinging. Could not the battery be recharged and voltages checked to ensure the problem is solved. Could not we borrow a battery or power cart to save the need to handswing, or at least find a qualified person to help?

Sorry to sound like a safety magazine, but maybe if we paid more attention to them we wouldn't get so many repeats of previous accidents. I recall the Cessna getting briefly airborne at Tamworth a few years ago.

Tin helmet on.

Just don't forget this fella has been flying up here for years and years and years incident free. Why he did what he did???????? but accidents do happen thats why we have insurance, fine might not have been the most intelligent manouvre in the world and yes hindsight is a wonderful thing. Lets face who hasn't done something amazingly stupid in their life...

As for swinging props it is ESSENTIAL that you be trainned correctly, go now stop reading and check out your company ops manual, my geuss is that there is a section in there that prohibts you from hand swinging props.

On the other side it is a piece of p*ss and very safe to do if done correctly although it should be a last resort, yes the start stick is good but $$$ How many of you know how to start lets say a C210 with normal jumper leads??? Can you jump a 24V system from a 12V car battery??? What I am getting at is if you want to be a bush pilot go learn the skills that will get you out the poo with out ending up in the poo poo...

Look at history Crash Test Dummy on Bathurst Island - PLANE written off with a full throttle no chocks hand swing (and lucky to be alive), Adelaide early this year??? Now this???

The hardest hand swing i've ever done was a Bonanza that was hot... what a b*astard... p.s. Who knows if and how to handswing a Chief???

HA...

Hand propping?
 

Hand swinging was still being taught in the US on the PPL when I was there years ago, but nary a mention in Oz when I did it here. (Perhaps it was the instructor, I don't know, she was a pretty thourough sort of gal). Ironically all the failed starts I've had have been in Oz ... (faulty solenoids, a few flatties).

I was taught to chock as many wheels as possible with whatever you could lay your hands on (had to use a flight bag and my Jepps once). Always work behind the prop disc as much as possible (especially if your on your own) and never forget to set the brakes anyway. A few compression strokes with the mags off are helpful after priming, but it's done at idle throttle and you always treat the engine as if it were live anyway. Never been able to get a donk running at idle, usual minimum was 1/4-1/3.

Two people is always safer and better, but some times it's a luxury you don't have. I don't mind propping a 4 cyl if done safely, but a 6 ... I don't think safe even comes into it. So much harder to pass through the closer compression strokes and with all the extra effort required it's that much easier to fillet youself on the tarmac.

Coffee thanks! - having said all this I whole heartedly agree with you, just that sometimes the unexpected does happen (for whatever reason - misguided or otherwise) and those who don't know what they're doing always seem to make the news - a la Saratoga at YPPF a year or so ago.

High Alt - bug+ger of a job swinging a B58 and a Part, don't think I would even dare a 31! :D

"And hey . . . Let's be careful out there!" :)

Chill,

I'm with you, perhaps hand swing a four cylinder with a two bladed prop, but a six with three blades , no thanks!

Fortunately for me covered this in my training, with the key ingredients also being two people and plenty of chocks!

Is'nt there half a dozen charter companies and at least three maintenance hangars within walking distance of where this accident took place, all of which have battery carts. If your stuck in the middle of nowhere with no options improvise, but if you have access to facilities, walk the 50 metres and use them.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Thankfully no major physical injuries . HH.

PS: who is/was crash test dummy?

Two of us handswung a C402 once.

Lucky me, I was the pilot did the the inside jobs while a big, burly engineer did the hard work. :)

CTD:- A pilot up here years ago... trouble seemed to follow him...

Including one of my fav incidents over the years...

In a C210 10nm from Darwin flying a bloke over his property decided to show it to him real low but didn't realise he flew over a CASA inspectors house WHOOPS... oh and was on radar.....

Chill so from your post I take it that you are happy to hand swing a prop on your own? No-one in the aircraft?

Thank Gold for the Salvo's :(
 

Hope this year the Salvo's give generously to the John Hardy appeal. :eek: :eek:

Problem with hand starting a PA31 is that someone has to be in the cockpit to hold the starter switch in the start position so that the shower of sparks ignition will work. From memory they are not fitted with impulse mags. You would need to be a brave person to try hand swing one.

I just watched the news and had a thought.
The salvo's are my prefered charity. If this guy was using the salvo's aircraft for non Salvo's business does he pay for the privelidge. I expect and certainly hope so.

Yeah I remember seeing photos of the damage caused by the run-away saratoga(?)

Took out about 6 other ac, including one whose fuselage looked like a garlic roll all sliced up (bummer).

Carrying on with who has swung the biggest, what about the big-@ss radials which 4-5 guys would loop a piece of rope around and haul away (being a rotor head I can't remember ac type - old ww2 ?)

Um, was it an act of God??? If so the insurers may not have to pay!!! :D

JH shouldnt throw too many stones....

I can think of one good reason why schools probably don't teach hand swinging these days.

I N S U R A N C E!

What does the aircraft manufacturer's (in this case Cessna) handbook say?
Where does it appear in the current CASA day VFR syllabus?
How many flying schools actually have an approved procedure in their training syllabus?

The list is endless.

We've all done it and in most cases successfully and without incident because we took smart precautions such as wheel chocks, pilot at the controls etc. Sadly, for this poor sod he appeared to have neglected even the most basic considerations and I would like to be proved wrong but I'll bet, his insurance company is going to wipe their hands of him and he is going to be hung out to dry.

northern chique
 

Northern chique, are you still friends with John after your mishap. He shed a tear last night on channel 8, was that a tear for you. It,s sad to see a great person like john suffer another mishap, I feel for him. Maybe Stefan can pick up the extra work.

Just out of curiosity, what's the rego of the Metro that got 'bitten'?
I think I used to fly it.