Air NZ set to fly Australian routes
Evertonian
Got those rose coloured glasses on again eh Kaptin?? Yes, well I'm sure there were people that socialised, but it was no one that I knew of.
together with the eventual future of Ansett and YOUR employment with them ...If only we knew what was good for us then! Perhaps we all should've been in the AFAP, the shining light of Aviation Unions!!!
Move on ...err, isn't that a wee bit like Get over it ???
Okay, lets agree to disagree (again!). I don't like the decision makers that ended AN's life, you don't like those that brought about the demise of your jobs. But I think we agree that we
don't want ANZ to fold, for those that played no part in AN's demise, and we both don't like Abeles & Hawke. Solved!
together with the eventual future of Ansett and YOUR employment with them ...If only we knew what was good for us then! Perhaps we all should've been in the AFAP, the shining light of Aviation Unions!!!
Move on ...err, isn't that a wee bit like Get over it ???
Okay, lets agree to disagree (again!). I don't like the decision makers that ended AN's life, you don't like those that brought about the demise of your jobs. But I think we agree that we
don't want ANZ to fold, for those that played no part in AN's demise, and we both don't like Abeles & Hawke. Solved!
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polevaulter
for your information about the stupid prick who decided to buy into ansett - it was infact our very own Selwyn Cushing (sp?)
Yes the very same man who almost brought down Briely's (sp?)
How can one man do this? That is the million dollar question.
And to all the others on this page
"If ANZ rang you today and said do you want a job, start tomorrow"
What would you say? "Sorry but I like working for nothing in GA"
Get real people - and harden up.
for your information about the stupid prick who decided to buy into ansett - it was infact our very own Selwyn Cushing (sp?)
Yes the very same man who almost brought down Briely's (sp?)
How can one man do this? That is the million dollar question.
And to all the others on this page
"If ANZ rang you today and said do you want a job, start tomorrow"
What would you say? "Sorry but I like working for nothing in GA"
Get real people - and harden up.
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For the record, I am quite sure that none of us on these boards wants to see ANY airline go under. These people are our colleagues and friends, even though we may not work for the same airline, we are all in the job because of a love for aviation.
I personally would never set foot on an AirNZ aircraft. This does not mean that I do not respect my colleagues for doing a job they love. What it does mean is that I resent the fact that incompetent management at AirNZ bought something they couldn't afford. We all know the result of that decision.
So yes, I too am bitter. I'm even more bitter when I see people struggling both emotionally and financially after the collapse. Why? Because to watch human suffering is painful.
It is time that the decision makers and bean counters in every industry start taking responsibility for their actions.
SG
I personally would never set foot on an AirNZ aircraft. This does not mean that I do not respect my colleagues for doing a job they love. What it does mean is that I resent the fact that incompetent management at AirNZ bought something they couldn't afford. We all know the result of that decision.
So yes, I too am bitter. I'm even more bitter when I see people struggling both emotionally and financially after the collapse. Why? Because to watch human suffering is painful.
It is time that the decision makers and bean counters in every industry start taking responsibility for their actions.
SG
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I hope those Air New Zealand bastards sink. They F*** Australian aviation and then have the gall to come over here again. It will be a cold day in hell before I would travel with those mongrels and I hope every otherAussie feels the same way.
Topend3
A Kiwi and proud of it.
Suspected as much with your prattle.
Migrate north for the winter did we?
Bondi Beach to the long grass of Darwin.
Enjoying the privileges of the Australian worker?
A Kiwi and proud of it.
Suspected as much with your prattle.
Migrate north for the winter did we?
Bondi Beach to the long grass of Darwin.
Enjoying the privileges of the Australian worker?
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Biggles51,
Would you please enlighten us on how Air New Zealand managed to F*** Australian aviation (as you so eloquently put it)
Just the pertinent points thanks, nothing too elaborate.
Would you please enlighten us on how Air New Zealand managed to F*** Australian aviation (as you so eloquently put it)
Just the pertinent points thanks, nothing too elaborate.
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Why should we forgive and forget?
I hate to sound like a broken record, but, ANZ removed Ansett's best chance of survival in a vain attempt to rival Qantas. Everyone knew it, we all stood by bewildered by the ANZ board decision to exercise preemtive rights over the sale of AN and thereby oust Singapore Airlines bid. The share market certainly knew it, ANZ shares began a steepening descent as soon as the transaction was consumated. The international money market certainly knew it, Gary Toomey was finding it VERY hard to secure offshore funds.
But Air New Zealand ran around like a 2 year old spruking that it was now a 'TOP 20' airline (obvioulsy size did matter to them)
Two things in particular raise my suspicion and ire over this debarcle:
Firstly, if ANZ was genuinely serious about integration, how come it was so simple to pull it all apart, almost as if there was a plan in place to 'de-integrate'.
Seconly, and flowing on from my first point, not only was it fairly painless to pull apart the so called integrated airline, management seemed to be able to return to a new structure within record time.
Both these points suggest that there were some ANZers who were preparing for this for some time (a plan B team). So how seriously were ANZ taking this purchase in the first place? What chance did they give it after they bought in?
Internally, the airline was hurting from the constant battles going on over 'which way we should do it'. Inevidably, the 'we own you' argument got much use despite the effects on Aussie customers (i.e. peanut debarcle).
From a staffmembers perspective I do not remember being flooded with sympathy from over the Tasman, what I do remember is all the KIWI's in the so called 'integrated airline' being whisked back to Auckland, and the convicts being deported back to the other side of the pond.
In fact, it was reported to me that at a STAR alliance pilots meeting in Auckland held only weeks after the seperation, NZALPA made NO mention of their Ansett colleagues, only that they were pissed about losing flying to other STAR pilots(yes this is post S11).
I am not saying there were not other factors which contributed to the problems at ANsett, but ANZ was not left innocetly holding the hot potato, rather it eagerly and stupidly grabbed hold of it and refused to let go, despite warnings from all and sundry that it would get its hands burnt, and afterwards, the NZ government rubbed millions into the wound to make it all better.
Obviously I will never give them a dollar, so what, but neither will any of my friends or family and we will all make sure that many others are aware of what really happened.
This is why Ansett employees, families, friends customers, suppliers and creditors will not forgive and forget.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but, ANZ removed Ansett's best chance of survival in a vain attempt to rival Qantas. Everyone knew it, we all stood by bewildered by the ANZ board decision to exercise preemtive rights over the sale of AN and thereby oust Singapore Airlines bid. The share market certainly knew it, ANZ shares began a steepening descent as soon as the transaction was consumated. The international money market certainly knew it, Gary Toomey was finding it VERY hard to secure offshore funds.
But Air New Zealand ran around like a 2 year old spruking that it was now a 'TOP 20' airline (obvioulsy size did matter to them)
Two things in particular raise my suspicion and ire over this debarcle:
Firstly, if ANZ was genuinely serious about integration, how come it was so simple to pull it all apart, almost as if there was a plan in place to 'de-integrate'.
Seconly, and flowing on from my first point, not only was it fairly painless to pull apart the so called integrated airline, management seemed to be able to return to a new structure within record time.
Both these points suggest that there were some ANZers who were preparing for this for some time (a plan B team). So how seriously were ANZ taking this purchase in the first place? What chance did they give it after they bought in?
Internally, the airline was hurting from the constant battles going on over 'which way we should do it'. Inevidably, the 'we own you' argument got much use despite the effects on Aussie customers (i.e. peanut debarcle).
From a staffmembers perspective I do not remember being flooded with sympathy from over the Tasman, what I do remember is all the KIWI's in the so called 'integrated airline' being whisked back to Auckland, and the convicts being deported back to the other side of the pond.
In fact, it was reported to me that at a STAR alliance pilots meeting in Auckland held only weeks after the seperation, NZALPA made NO mention of their Ansett colleagues, only that they were pissed about losing flying to other STAR pilots(yes this is post S11).
I am not saying there were not other factors which contributed to the problems at ANsett, but ANZ was not left innocetly holding the hot potato, rather it eagerly and stupidly grabbed hold of it and refused to let go, despite warnings from all and sundry that it would get its hands burnt, and afterwards, the NZ government rubbed millions into the wound to make it all better.
Obviously I will never give them a dollar, so what, but neither will any of my friends or family and we will all make sure that many others are aware of what really happened.
This is why Ansett employees, families, friends customers, suppliers and creditors will not forgive and forget.
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I really think it is a mute point anyway. So what, AirNZ have the right to fly around Australia, big deal!! There is no way on Gods Earth that those clowns will fly domestically in Oz!!! They're broke. They've got no money. People are saying that SQ won't start up. If they can't, then how the hell do the Kiwis think they can. Who is going to get on an AirNZ aeroplane when they can get on Qantas or Virgin Blue? If the kiwis try to undercut on price they'll just be throwing good money after bad. As far as just making the flights a continuation of an International service, forget it!! It's a pain in the ass for business travellers in particular. No, AirNZs ONLY hope of survival now is to be consumed by Qantas.
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Oh stop your pathetic drivel Kiwis, "but Ansett was a basket case before....."
SQ had signed a massive cheque for us to fix that situation and you morons ripped it up. The blame, therefore, can only ever be attributed to AIRNZ. I honestly cannot see your arguement.
PS Your PM is ugly.
SQ had signed a massive cheque for us to fix that situation and you morons ripped it up. The blame, therefore, can only ever be attributed to AIRNZ. I honestly cannot see your arguement.
PS Your PM is ugly.
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AN posted a A$124 MIL PROFIT in 1999 just prior to NZs 100% takeover, 12 months later A$3 BILLION DEBT. Fact.
Topend3s comment about "ordinary performances" is interesting, considering he/she claims elsewhere to have been a 747-400 Capt with AN.
I doubt the truth in the claim as you come across like a mindless troglodyte and your's would have been the only ordinary performance (apart from 'Shave', 'Shifty' and 'Rippedmeat').
Topend3s comment about "ordinary performances" is interesting, considering he/she claims elsewhere to have been a 747-400 Capt with AN.
I doubt the truth in the claim as you come across like a mindless troglodyte and your's would have been the only ordinary performance (apart from 'Shave', 'Shifty' and 'Rippedmeat').
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Bronte, they wouldn't have bought it if the Oz govt had just let them fly in Oz as the open skies agreement had intended, much the same way as Ansett had been flying in NZ for years before. The Australian govt wouldn't have lied through their teeth in initially saying "come on over we like competition" and then reneging on a deal unless they were worried that the entry of a third domestic operator may have been too much for the other two. More likely they were worried about the effect on Ansett and no doubt would have had pressure exerted from unions and management. It doesn't alter the fact that Air NZ made a hash of things but it helps when a govt sticks to policy. But that's politics. And thanks for pointing out the lack of sexual arousal our pm gives you. At least now there will be proper competition in OZ.
Albatross
Give some a break.Even with a national chip on your shoulder,you can understand the need for the aggrieved to vent their spleen.Ansett staff were exposed to the most unbelievable of mismanagement,and from our first hand experience the cause an indecisive and commercially inept AIRNZ team.
Open skies,all set to go were we?I think a little more complicated than that.But if that`s your hand,I agree with you on some disgraceful actions of a long gone government.
You lost a bit of expansion-I can tell you now,from what we saw, AIRNZ management incapable of seriously challenging Australian skies-we lost 16000 jobs.
Give some a break.Even with a national chip on your shoulder,you can understand the need for the aggrieved to vent their spleen.Ansett staff were exposed to the most unbelievable of mismanagement,and from our first hand experience the cause an indecisive and commercially inept AIRNZ team.
Open skies,all set to go were we?I think a little more complicated than that.But if that`s your hand,I agree with you on some disgraceful actions of a long gone government.
You lost a bit of expansion-I can tell you now,from what we saw, AIRNZ management incapable of seriously challenging Australian skies-we lost 16000 jobs.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 12th Aug 2002 at 08:34.
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Gnadenburg
16000 jobs - wow alot of people. Lots of redundacy I suppose In NZ we stick to one person for one job (or two people for both seats), not three.
16000 jobs - wow alot of people. Lots of redundacy I suppose
In NZ we stick to one person for one job (or two people for both seats), not three.
Last edited by kavu; 12th Aug 2002 at 12:10.
