Another Virgin cover up in it's infancy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another Virgin cover up in it's infancy
Daily Telegraph
Engineer almost sucked into jet
By JIM DICKINS
19jul02
A VIRGIN Blue ground engineer came very close to "ingestion" by a 737 jet engine during a communications mix-up at Sydney airport earlier this month.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating the incident, which occurred when a pilot released his brakes under direction from air traffic control, rolling 2m towards the engineer.
The engineer, distracted by an aircraft taxiing nearby, did not realise the jet had moved.
The blunder followed an incident on June 11 when a Virgin 737 pilot was demoted to co-pilot for six months after overshooting Darwin runway.
The aircraft remained within the runway-end safety zone and there were no injuries or damage. However, the pilot failed to report the incident within the company's strict time limit and was disciplined.
The bureau released its preliminary report on that incident yesterday, noting visibility was good at the time and winds were light.
However, the runway was undergoing maintenance, reducing the landing distance available.
A Virgin spokesman said the pilot was disciplined for failing to report the incident soon enough, rather than the incident itself.
"It didn't meet our standards, even if it met the statutory requirement," he said.
"It was within the 48-hour statutory limit but he should have reported it immediately."
The bureau confirmed it was also investigating a case of potential "ingestion" at Sydney airport on July 4.
Virgin's spokesman said that incident occurred when normal departure procedures were suspended by the arrival of an air ambulance.
Virgin was conducting its own investigation but did not believe the engineer was in danger of being sucked into the engine. "He was closer than we would have liked him to be, but not in the danger zone," the spokesman said.
The pilot had been distracted by instructions from air traffic control and did not know the engineer was in danger. And the engineer was watching out for the propellers of a third aircraft, also delayed by the air ambulance.
Virgin stressed no passengers were ever in danger, but said the incident supported its argument that its current terminal space at Sydney was overcrowded.
Virgin wants to be allowed to occupy the old Ansett terminal as soon as possible.
"After two years of excellent safety at the airport this demonstrates that the facility has reached its capacity," the spokesman said.
Surely another indication that procedures are lacking. And Virgin want to put loaders on the headsets, carry out airstarts/connect GPUs. God help 'em!
Engineer almost sucked into jet
By JIM DICKINS
19jul02
A VIRGIN Blue ground engineer came very close to "ingestion" by a 737 jet engine during a communications mix-up at Sydney airport earlier this month.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating the incident, which occurred when a pilot released his brakes under direction from air traffic control, rolling 2m towards the engineer.
The engineer, distracted by an aircraft taxiing nearby, did not realise the jet had moved.
The blunder followed an incident on June 11 when a Virgin 737 pilot was demoted to co-pilot for six months after overshooting Darwin runway.
The aircraft remained within the runway-end safety zone and there were no injuries or damage. However, the pilot failed to report the incident within the company's strict time limit and was disciplined.
The bureau released its preliminary report on that incident yesterday, noting visibility was good at the time and winds were light.
However, the runway was undergoing maintenance, reducing the landing distance available.
A Virgin spokesman said the pilot was disciplined for failing to report the incident soon enough, rather than the incident itself.
"It didn't meet our standards, even if it met the statutory requirement," he said.
"It was within the 48-hour statutory limit but he should have reported it immediately."
The bureau confirmed it was also investigating a case of potential "ingestion" at Sydney airport on July 4.
Virgin's spokesman said that incident occurred when normal departure procedures were suspended by the arrival of an air ambulance.
Virgin was conducting its own investigation but did not believe the engineer was in danger of being sucked into the engine. "He was closer than we would have liked him to be, but not in the danger zone," the spokesman said.
The pilot had been distracted by instructions from air traffic control and did not know the engineer was in danger. And the engineer was watching out for the propellers of a third aircraft, also delayed by the air ambulance.
Virgin stressed no passengers were ever in danger, but said the incident supported its argument that its current terminal space at Sydney was overcrowded.
Virgin wants to be allowed to occupy the old Ansett terminal as soon as possible.
"After two years of excellent safety at the airport this demonstrates that the facility has reached its capacity," the spokesman said.
Surely another indication that procedures are lacking. And Virgin want to put loaders on the headsets, carry out airstarts/connect GPUs. God help 'em!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"when a pilot released his brakes under direction from air traffic control,................................says it all really, doesn't it! 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Metung RSL or Collingwood Social Club on weekends!
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question for AN LAME.
What revelations can we expect from you when
eventually reaches adolescence ?
Another Virgin cover up in it's infancy
Last edited by Whiskery; 19th Jul 2002 at 04:36.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptin M
"when a pilot released his brakes under direction from air traffic control,................................ "
What ever happened to 'clear left/clear right' Doesn't that include engineers? (or are they simply classified as potential FOD?)
Whiskery
If it's a problem child just imagine it as a teen!
"when a pilot released his brakes under direction from air traffic control,................................ "
What ever happened to 'clear left/clear right' Doesn't that include engineers? (or are they simply classified as potential FOD?)
Whiskery
If it's a problem child just imagine it as a teen!
Whispering "T" Jet
What are you saying Kaptin M ?
Are you saying that because ATC told the aircraft to taxi, that absolves Pilot responsibility for checking he is clear to proceed ?
OR
You are in agreement with AN Lame that the Pilot should have checked it was clear to proceed and not just assumed that the ATC instruction implied he was clear to taxi.
OR
You are in agreement with AN Lame that the Pilot should have checked it was clear to proceed and not just assumed that the ATC instruction implied he was clear to taxi.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All this anti- Virgin (along with anti- QF) rubbish is becoming extremely boring.
Do we have nothing else to occupy our little minds besides these meaningless jibes?
We all know the Australian media can beat up to a sponge cake from the egg yoke of female mousespider. Alas they make something out of absolutely nothing. Yet we still have individuals taking their bait.
Lets raise the standard just a little!!
Do we have nothing else to occupy our little minds besides these meaningless jibes?
We all know the Australian media can beat up to a sponge cake from the egg yoke of female mousespider. Alas they make something out of absolutely nothing. Yet we still have individuals taking their bait.
Lets raise the standard just a little!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good approach to safety there Shakespeare. Obviously you've never had an operating CFM56 sneak up behind you before. I'm sure the enginneer concerned, not to mention his family, will be grateful for your concern.
Besides, what is the point of this forum if not to discuss the industry and, amongst other things, how it all seems to be going down the gurgler at the moment from a standards perspective
Besides, what is the point of this forum if not to discuss the industry and, amongst other things, how it all seems to be going down the gurgler at the moment from a standards perspective
Last edited by AN LAME; 19th Jul 2002 at 05:31.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The party.
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was the guy an Engineer?.Or someone trained for an hour or so to walk around an AUD$80 million 50+ton piece of metal with 140 or so Souls on board,about to be hurtled into the air.
A sign of things to come,this one was on the ground.
A sign of things to come,this one was on the ground.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
Posts: 1,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IF this story is true, surely as someone already pointed out, receiving a clearance from ATC does NOT mean clear to taxi on its own.
Most places you can get say a push back clearance from ATC, given to you because ATC are happy there is no conflict with any other Aircraft, they do not care that you may still have the aerobridge in to the Aircraft, all sorts of equipment around the Aircraft and an Engineer still removing tie down straps etc etc.....
I do know this was not a push back situation, but the same applies, ATC were happy for the Aircraft to move, but what about everyone else.
Most places you can get say a push back clearance from ATC, given to you because ATC are happy there is no conflict with any other Aircraft, they do not care that you may still have the aerobridge in to the Aircraft, all sorts of equipment around the Aircraft and an Engineer still removing tie down straps etc etc.....
I do know this was not a push back situation, but the same applies, ATC were happy for the Aircraft to move, but what about everyone else.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So who are we going to ridicule today???
The Virgin Blue Captain??? The ATC??? or the Engineer????
Why don't we just blame the sun.... it could have been shinning on either, the captains face, sun reflecting off the ATC director sun glasses, but if the engineer had his back turned, the sun definatley wouldnt have been shinning out of his back side...
The Virgin Blue Captain??? The ATC??? or the Engineer????
Why don't we just blame the sun.... it could have been shinning on either, the captains face, sun reflecting off the ATC director sun glasses, but if the engineer had his back turned, the sun definatley wouldnt have been shinning out of his back side...
Personally I blame Reg Ansett.
If he hadn't started that airline, Abeles wouldn't have taken it over, screwed everybody and caused it to collapse. Virgin wouldn't have prospered and thus the engineer probably wouldn't have been there in the first place.
Bloody Reg.
If he hadn't started that airline, Abeles wouldn't have taken it over, screwed everybody and caused it to collapse. Virgin wouldn't have prospered and thus the engineer probably wouldn't have been there in the first place.
Bloody Reg.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Next door
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh and don't forget to CLEARLY state that it was an ex AN pilot.
Even if it wasn't, Mr Huttner can again assign the problem to "them"and not the experienced (3000hrs total/ 500hrs on jets) "True" Virgins.
Lovely to have the Boss identify the problem.
Even if it wasn't, Mr Huttner can again assign the problem to "them"and not the experienced (3000hrs total/ 500hrs on jets) "True" Virgins.
Lovely to have the Boss identify the problem.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AN LAME. I was not considering safety when I posted. I was more concerned with all the brain dead vitriol directed at Virgin and at times Qantas.
If I had a safety issue I would post it (if I thought necessary) so others could gain some benefit from my experience. It would be impartial and not in any way aportioning blame or casting aspersions as to who did what. WHAT ON EARTH DOES THAT ACHIEVE? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!
A great deal can be learnt from the experiences of others. Correctly reported and scripted they are very beneficial. What is not beneficial is how some Australians on these threads resort to some of the most neolithic scribings known to man.
Rumours are great and in the right context are fine. When they resort to directing volumes of verbal diarrhoea at companies or individuals without base or foundation, and generally from an outdated uneducated source, they quite simply don't belong.
We all try to do our jobs as PROFESSIONALS, however from time to time ALL OVER THE WORLD, things do not go according to plan. Big deal. Most choose just to get on with the job. A pity we can not adopt some of that philosophy down here where some pilots think they know it all!
If I had a safety issue I would post it (if I thought necessary) so others could gain some benefit from my experience. It would be impartial and not in any way aportioning blame or casting aspersions as to who did what. WHAT ON EARTH DOES THAT ACHIEVE? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!
A great deal can be learnt from the experiences of others. Correctly reported and scripted they are very beneficial. What is not beneficial is how some Australians on these threads resort to some of the most neolithic scribings known to man.
Rumours are great and in the right context are fine. When they resort to directing volumes of verbal diarrhoea at companies or individuals without base or foundation, and generally from an outdated uneducated source, they quite simply don't belong.
We all try to do our jobs as PROFESSIONALS, however from time to time ALL OVER THE WORLD, things do not go according to plan. Big deal. Most choose just to get on with the job. A pity we can not adopt some of that philosophy down here where some pilots think they know it all!
Evertonian
Shakespeare..TN copped it, AN copped it, VQ copped it, QF still cops it, all Australian institutions cop it. Why should DJ be different? Ignore the thread if you don't like it.
Some people post these types of threads out of spite. Others feel the need to explore the ramifications of such incidents. Some, like Pimp Daddy raise valid questions on the topic. Those of us who don't know the checklists find it interesting that there IS a check for it.
As I am back on the ramp these days, it interests me to know that things like this can happen. With my hearing protection on, and the amount of extra noise from other aircraft, like the passing prop in this topic, I also would not have had a concern about the aircraft next to me as I "thought" it wasn't going anywhere at that time. I would consider myself experienced on & around aircraft, but reading this & others like it remind that eternal vigilance is abso-friggin-lutely essential!!!
Some people post these types of threads out of spite. Others feel the need to explore the ramifications of such incidents. Some, like Pimp Daddy raise valid questions on the topic. Those of us who don't know the checklists find it interesting that there IS a check for it.
As I am back on the ramp these days, it interests me to know that things like this can happen. With my hearing protection on, and the amount of extra noise from other aircraft, like the passing prop in this topic, I also would not have had a concern about the aircraft next to me as I "thought" it wasn't going anywhere at that time. I would consider myself experienced on & around aircraft, but reading this & others like it remind that eternal vigilance is abso-friggin-lutely essential!!!
