Sad end to the RNZAF
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Sad end to the RNZAF
Broken down planes leave transport squadron in 'parlous state'
15.07.2002
12.00pm
Problems with the air force's ageing and increasingly unreliable aircraft reached a crisis earlier this month when the air force's transport squadron had no serviceable aircraft in New Zealand.
The air force's Number 40 Squadron, which operates five Hercules C130H and two Boeing 727 medium to long range transport aircraft out of Whenuapai in Auckland, had no aircraft available here on July 1 and July 4 after a series of breakdowns.
On July 2 it had one Hercules available, until that too broke down, and on July 3 it had only one Boeing available.
One Boeing has been on the ground for several weeks as air force technicians try to figure out how to fix a persistent leak in an auxiliary fuel tank.
One of the Hercules broke down in Canada when the fan blades in one of its four T56 turbo prop engines was found to be at risk of disintegrating. That aircraft was on the ground for at least two weeks when spares sent over to fix the problem were held up by American customs.
When other Hercules were checked, another in New Zealand also became unserviceable with a similar turbo-fan problem.
One of the Hercules was out of action when it spent 2-1/2 months longer in a deep service than it should have because of maintenance problems associated with its age and lack of reliability.
Another Hercules was unable to fly when a problem was found with its compass and navigation systems in Darwin.
The other Hercules in the fleet spent time in the maintenance hangar having problems fixed after it returned from an exercise in Canada.
Air force spokesman Squadron Leader Ric Cullinane said the crisis was caused by the age of the aircraft and the difficulties in maintaining increasingly unreliable systems and plant. He said on any one day the air force would expect to have between three and five Hercules or Boeings serviceable.
"It is a consequence of aging aircraft and ageing systems which we are working hard on," Sqn Ldr Cullinane said.
"It is a parlous state," he said.
Both the Hercules and Boeing 727 aircraft are crucial elements in carrying out the Government's defence policy by transporting troops and equipment to various theatres.
However, that policy was now at risk because of the increasing lack of reliability of the aircraft, said the Government's Defence Long Term Development Plan.
The Hercules and the Boeings are very old aircraft by international military standards.
The Hercules were first introduced in New Zealand in 1965 and the Boeings were bought second-hand in 1981.
A "life of type" study has begun on the Hercules to determine the best option -- upgrade or replacement.'
Upgrading to give the Hercules another 15-20 years of life could cost up to $170m.
New Zealand also has an option to buy the latest model C130J Hercules at a likely cost of more than $800m. The option, part of an Australian order of new C130J models, was due to expire at the end of the year.
The replacement of the Boeings has been classified as urgent by the Government, because of the increasing corrosion and structural problems and maintenance.
The old Boeings also face increasing worldwide opposition because of noise levels and outdated navigation and communications systems.
From April this year the old Boeings were banned from several international airfields and needed a waiver to operate from others, including Wellington.
Replacement options for the Boeing 727 include Boeing 737, 757 and 767s, Airbus A310 or A320 (similar to the A320 Air New Zealand plans to add to its fleet) and the Russian Tupolev TU 204-214.
The Boeing replacement could cost up to $200m and was due to begin towards the end of this year.
- NZPA
15.07.2002
12.00pm
Problems with the air force's ageing and increasingly unreliable aircraft reached a crisis earlier this month when the air force's transport squadron had no serviceable aircraft in New Zealand.
The air force's Number 40 Squadron, which operates five Hercules C130H and two Boeing 727 medium to long range transport aircraft out of Whenuapai in Auckland, had no aircraft available here on July 1 and July 4 after a series of breakdowns.
On July 2 it had one Hercules available, until that too broke down, and on July 3 it had only one Boeing available.
One Boeing has been on the ground for several weeks as air force technicians try to figure out how to fix a persistent leak in an auxiliary fuel tank.
One of the Hercules broke down in Canada when the fan blades in one of its four T56 turbo prop engines was found to be at risk of disintegrating. That aircraft was on the ground for at least two weeks when spares sent over to fix the problem were held up by American customs.
When other Hercules were checked, another in New Zealand also became unserviceable with a similar turbo-fan problem.
One of the Hercules was out of action when it spent 2-1/2 months longer in a deep service than it should have because of maintenance problems associated with its age and lack of reliability.
Another Hercules was unable to fly when a problem was found with its compass and navigation systems in Darwin.
The other Hercules in the fleet spent time in the maintenance hangar having problems fixed after it returned from an exercise in Canada.
Air force spokesman Squadron Leader Ric Cullinane said the crisis was caused by the age of the aircraft and the difficulties in maintaining increasingly unreliable systems and plant. He said on any one day the air force would expect to have between three and five Hercules or Boeings serviceable.
"It is a consequence of aging aircraft and ageing systems which we are working hard on," Sqn Ldr Cullinane said.
"It is a parlous state," he said.
Both the Hercules and Boeing 727 aircraft are crucial elements in carrying out the Government's defence policy by transporting troops and equipment to various theatres.
However, that policy was now at risk because of the increasing lack of reliability of the aircraft, said the Government's Defence Long Term Development Plan.
The Hercules and the Boeings are very old aircraft by international military standards.
The Hercules were first introduced in New Zealand in 1965 and the Boeings were bought second-hand in 1981.
A "life of type" study has begun on the Hercules to determine the best option -- upgrade or replacement.'
Upgrading to give the Hercules another 15-20 years of life could cost up to $170m.
New Zealand also has an option to buy the latest model C130J Hercules at a likely cost of more than $800m. The option, part of an Australian order of new C130J models, was due to expire at the end of the year.
The replacement of the Boeings has been classified as urgent by the Government, because of the increasing corrosion and structural problems and maintenance.
The old Boeings also face increasing worldwide opposition because of noise levels and outdated navigation and communications systems.
From April this year the old Boeings were banned from several international airfields and needed a waiver to operate from others, including Wellington.
Replacement options for the Boeing 727 include Boeing 737, 757 and 767s, Airbus A310 or A320 (similar to the A320 Air New Zealand plans to add to its fleet) and the Russian Tupolev TU 204-214.
The Boeing replacement could cost up to $200m and was due to begin towards the end of this year.
- NZPA
Well just like the oz gov. it is good to see fugly will make sure her precious VIP jet is replaced but will continue to decimate the countries proud airforce so she can give away some more welfare to keep her in power. Maybe she could sell some more of her counterfeit art, just like her policies really.
If you happen upon a Peace Rally do the following
STEP 1) Approach an ignorant, liberal person talking about peace and saying there should be "no retaliation."
STEP 2) Have a brief conversation with him and ask if military force is appropriate.
STEP 3) When he says, "No," ask him, "Why not?"
STEP 4) When he says, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful, and we should not cause more violence."
STEP 5) Punch him in the face, really hard.
STEP 6) When he gets up to punch you, point out to him that it would be a mistake to punch you (and contrary to his values) because he would be causing more violence.
STEP 7) When he agrees with you that he has pledged not to commit violence, punch him in the face again, only even harder this time.
STEP 8) Repeat steps 2 through 7 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.
If you happen upon a Peace Rally do the following
STEP 1) Approach an ignorant, liberal person talking about peace and saying there should be "no retaliation."
STEP 2) Have a brief conversation with him and ask if military force is appropriate.
STEP 3) When he says, "No," ask him, "Why not?"
STEP 4) When he says, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful, and we should not cause more violence."
STEP 5) Punch him in the face, really hard.
STEP 6) When he gets up to punch you, point out to him that it would be a mistake to punch you (and contrary to his values) because he would be causing more violence.
STEP 7) When he agrees with you that he has pledged not to commit violence, punch him in the face again, only even harder this time.
STEP 8) Repeat steps 2 through 7 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.
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Tears to the eyes
I think you will find that for a period about 6 weeks ago there were no Iroquois also! Yrs of Govt incompetence have cuased this....... b'jesus, how many life of type studies do these people need, when the facts are there everyday. Your people may be brilliant but you kit is old physically and outdated technologically. You have no place on the modern battlefield. Given your servicability probs, I suggest you have no place in you chosen role of 'peacekeeping handliman'
I was at meeting several years ago in Bosnia, where the NZ Army was described by a 2/3 star British General as "a liability to UN operations". Seems the airforce now suffers the same fate.
From the article, I note that the anti-military Labour Govt, after axing the skyhawks has decided that the priority for replacement is the PMs corporate jet fleet!
I think Ethiopea, Ghana et al have similar defence policies.
Its hard to believe how low morale must be. How many kickings can you take. I bet you dont boast about being in the NZ airforce down at the pub.....
Dont you still fly the Bell47 too?....Oh the humanity!
On the flip saide I do remember a kiwi Herc landing at Middle Wallop some years back....and apart from ploughing a nice furrow in the mud...the off-loaded a shed load of steinlarger, a barbeque and some sheep (for cooking....they maybe kiwis but they are not welsh).
So maybe the govt should look at that as a policy. We loved it.
I was at meeting several years ago in Bosnia, where the NZ Army was described by a 2/3 star British General as "a liability to UN operations". Seems the airforce now suffers the same fate.
From the article, I note that the anti-military Labour Govt, after axing the skyhawks has decided that the priority for replacement is the PMs corporate jet fleet!
I think Ethiopea, Ghana et al have similar defence policies.
Its hard to believe how low morale must be. How many kickings can you take. I bet you dont boast about being in the NZ airforce down at the pub.....
Dont you still fly the Bell47 too?....Oh the humanity!
On the flip saide I do remember a kiwi Herc landing at Middle Wallop some years back....and apart from ploughing a nice furrow in the mud...the off-loaded a shed load of steinlarger, a barbeque and some sheep (for cooking....they maybe kiwis but they are not welsh).
So maybe the govt should look at that as a policy. We loved it.
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Albatross?
Are you who I think you are?
Ex-3, now on the lockheed steak house, looking to move north of the equator?... Good luck with your 2nd interview/sim ride.
From nzoom it seems the P3s et al are moving to OH sooner rather than later.
See you sooner than you think!
Ex-3, now on the lockheed steak house, looking to move north of the equator?... Good luck with your 2nd interview/sim ride.
From nzoom it seems the P3s et al are moving to OH sooner rather than later.
See you sooner than you think!
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I can see it now..
RNZAF charters Air New Zealand A320 to take the PM overseas...
Sounds like we've just got a token air-force..
it looks like a airforce, it sounds like a airforce.. but it sure ain't a airforce!
Sounds a bit like Helen.. It looks like a woman.. it sounds like a woman.. but it sure ain't a woman!
RNZAF charters Air New Zealand A320 to take the PM overseas...
Sounds like we've just got a token air-force..
it looks like a airforce, it sounds like a airforce.. but it sure ain't a airforce!Sounds a bit like Helen.. It looks like a woman.. it sounds like a woman.. but it sure ain't a woman!
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Fact not rumour!
Good for the boys/girls...757/767 rating and sod off to better climes. Although, knowing how poor morale is, the airforce will slap a 3yr return of service on the conversion course and then direct post people there!
Thats what they did with the proposed F16 instructors! Boosted morale no end.......
Of course Helen knows best... they want a 757 combi; even though one hasnt been produced yet! (I stand corrected as my info is a year old)
Perhaps to celebrate her presidency she could get a child to design a paint scheme...she could sign it, and take the credit?
Anyway, nice chariot to take her to all those important meetings?
The mind boggles ...and all the time the NZ public says bravo?
According to the PN Evening Standard the Govt has given the nod to Ohakea as a mil/civ airfield. (Although local govt must fund it). If the lads/ladies get a 757 then it will be easy to slip into a freight job...... more $$$$$ for what they do already and they wont even have to move house.
Good for the boys/girls...757/767 rating and sod off to better climes. Although, knowing how poor morale is, the airforce will slap a 3yr return of service on the conversion course and then direct post people there!
Thats what they did with the proposed F16 instructors! Boosted morale no end.......
Of course Helen knows best... they want a 757 combi; even though one hasnt been produced yet! (I stand corrected as my info is a year old)
Perhaps to celebrate her presidency she could get a child to design a paint scheme...she could sign it, and take the credit?
Anyway, nice chariot to take her to all those important meetings?
The mind boggles ...and all the time the NZ public says bravo?
According to the PN Evening Standard the Govt has given the nod to Ohakea as a mil/civ airfield. (Although local govt must fund it). If the lads/ladies get a 757 then it will be easy to slip into a freight job...... more $$$$$ for what they do already and they wont even have to move house.
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During the Vietnam war at Tan Son Nhat airbase a landing RNZAF Bristol freighter resplendent in camo with rampant kiwi on tail was asked by American ATC....
"Sir what kind of aircraft is that?"
"A Bristol 130..sir"
"Cool man... you build it yourself?"
"Sir what kind of aircraft is that?"
"A Bristol 130..sir"
"Cool man... you build it yourself?"
Last edited by Capt Vegemite; 15th Jul 2002 at 22:21.
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helen and her boys would be more suited to using a cessna 152 or similar for vip transport as thats just about what they have reduced the kiwi airforce to...we need f16s, new or upgraded hercs , orion upgrades.the money for this is avialble if we stop giving it to refugees, solo mothers, bludgers and treaty claims &put it into something that gives people jobs & keeps expertise in the country ..also i like ozbiggles system for dealing with these peace activist ,vego, leso,protesters
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From an article in the NZ Herald about Winston Peters performance in a political debate:
So where has all the local skilled labour gone Clark?? Need a bit of fresh blood to fund the welfare state do we?? Cancel the F-16 buy, cancel the P-3 Cirrus upgrade, disband the ACF and wonder why Australia and the U S o f A wont include you in a free trade arrangement.
He had an easy run with questions on immigration, crime and the Treaty of Waitangi. Peters was not really challenged except by Clark, who turned the tricky issue of immigration into a question of where New Zealand would get skilled labour to power the economy.
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Sorry guys and girls, but you are overlooking one little thing.......NZ doesnt have an Airforce....airfarce maybe, couldnt believe the hardware, or lack of it that the pilots had to play when I was out there last year.
The politicians have stripped it to the bone, got rid of a lot of its skilled people, so why not just put the whole shooting match out of its misery?
Must be so demorilising for those trying to make a career out of the forces.
The politicians have stripped it to the bone, got rid of a lot of its skilled people, so why not just put the whole shooting match out of its misery?
Must be so demorilising for those trying to make a career out of the forces.
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Ahhh the LCOS;
SOLVING THE PROBLEMS OF THE 21 CENTURY WITH THE TECHNOLOGY OF THE 60s
Come to think of it, you could apply similar logic to the Clark Government's political ideology.
Seriously though, do we think the NZ Government is likely to fork out the bucks for new choppers, new/upgraded Hercs and an upgrade to the P-3, having forked out all the capital procurement money on the super high priority VIP 757's??
And if they do, who the hell is going to be left to fly them?? $hite pay, a Government that treats them like 2nd class citizens, and worst of all; having to live in Bulls
But ask the Minister of Defence, there is neither a recruitment or morale problem in the New Zealand Army Air Transport Flight
Good luck Chaps and Chapesses!
SOLVING THE PROBLEMS OF THE 21 CENTURY WITH THE TECHNOLOGY OF THE 60s
Come to think of it, you could apply similar logic to the Clark Government's political ideology.
Seriously though, do we think the NZ Government is likely to fork out the bucks for new choppers, new/upgraded Hercs and an upgrade to the P-3, having forked out all the capital procurement money on the super high priority VIP 757's??
And if they do, who the hell is going to be left to fly them?? $hite pay, a Government that treats them like 2nd class citizens, and worst of all; having to live in Bulls
But ask the Minister of Defence, there is neither a recruitment or morale problem in the New Zealand Army Air Transport Flight
Good luck Chaps and Chapesses!
Last edited by IwantmyHUDback; 17th Jul 2002 at 00:31.
Whispering "T" Jet
Why an Air Force anyway?
Let's be realistic for a moment - why does New Zealand need an airforce?
1.No hostile neighbours within a bull's roar! (As long as they give us OUR Cup back next time we meet)
and........
2.Why would anyone invade New Zealand ?
I think Big Helen just made sure of another term in office.
1.No hostile neighbours within a bull's roar! (As long as they give us OUR Cup back next time we meet)
and........
2.Why would anyone invade New Zealand ?
I think Big Helen just made sure of another term in office.
3 Holer hmmmmm bite my tongue and hold back
I think the logic of why a country doesn't need an effective airforce was last defence policy in the 1930s and that had us less than 50km from a determined enemy with an airhead in the country next door to us.
The proof of why both Oz and NZ need one was once again proven in the late 90's when a small country you may of heard to the North of us called East Timor had troops on the ground who could have needed all the airpower they could get to help them out. It may be old technology but the Kiwis in their A4s WOULD NOT let anyone on the ground down.
And if the counter argument to that is 'well they weren't needed in the end' then I give up.
I think the logic of why a country doesn't need an effective airforce was last defence policy in the 1930s and that had us less than 50km from a determined enemy with an airhead in the country next door to us.
The proof of why both Oz and NZ need one was once again proven in the late 90's when a small country you may of heard to the North of us called East Timor had troops on the ground who could have needed all the airpower they could get to help them out. It may be old technology but the Kiwis in their A4s WOULD NOT let anyone on the ground down.
And if the counter argument to that is 'well they weren't needed in the end' then I give up.
You poor, unfortunate Kiwis are just seeing the beginning of what the femocracy that passes for government in your green and pleasant land is going to cost you. This defence unpreparedness is just the beginning. It is going to get much worse and may well cost you your nation. No human being worth the term deserves what these females in power have planned for you.
One day - if there are any of you left - you will burn Helen Clark in effigy. Actually, it would be far better to burn her in reality whilst there are still enough of you left to build a pyre and chain her onto it!
Let this be a lesson to all freedom-loving peoples. Never let a femocracy develop in your government! By all means had female politicians, but never, ever, let them have power. Did no-one learn the lessons of Thatcherism?
One day - if there are any of you left - you will burn Helen Clark in effigy. Actually, it would be far better to burn her in reality whilst there are still enough of you left to build a pyre and chain her onto it!
Let this be a lesson to all freedom-loving peoples. Never let a femocracy develop in your government! By all means had female politicians, but never, ever, let them have power. Did no-one learn the lessons of Thatcherism?
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Jeez Critical, I bet the birds just Love you
Don't be surprised if Helen is voted in again this election. Unfortunately the state of the airforce is being overshadowed by an improving economy and (supposedly) more social spending and that's what will decide this election.
Don't be surprised if Helen is voted in again this election. Unfortunately the state of the airforce is being overshadowed by an improving economy and (supposedly) more social spending and that's what will decide this election.