Visiting the flight deck QF
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Visiting the flight deck QF
Hey,
A question for the guys at QF,
I will be doing TPE-SYD in September
and i know that things are straightened up at QF after 09/11
But at IB and HV they still allow student pilots like me to visit the Flight deck
Will i be allowed to visit or will the answer be: DON'T EVEN DREAM OF IT!!!
I'm sure that if i ask one of the many QF stewards they will at least try....if...
What about BR? doing AMS-BKK and BKK-TPE with them
A question for the guys at QF,
I will be doing TPE-SYD in September
and i know that things are straightened up at QF after 09/11
But at IB and HV they still allow student pilots like me to visit the Flight deck
Will i be allowed to visit or will the answer be: DON'T EVEN DREAM OF IT!!!
I'm sure that if i ask one of the many QF stewards they will at least try....if...
What about BR? doing AMS-BKK and BKK-TPE with them
Last edited by Flying Spaniard; 5th Jul 2002 at 18:31.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
A quickie, Keg, if you don't mind. The company to which I'm shackled does not allow our own immediate family members to travel on the jumpseat - in some cases these are qualified and current cabin crew - even if the flights are overbooked. As a matter of fact, pilots who are away from base on recreational leave, and find themselves without a seat on a fully booked flight are not allowed j/s travel 
However they do TELL us ("Dear Captain, we request your permission to accept xxxx on such and such a flight, and thank you for your co-operation.") that we are to carry ANY of them (office management), and aviation regulatory authority employees eg. radio aids maintenance workers.
Does QF also have such an unbalanced policy?
However they do TELL us ("Dear Captain, we request your permission to accept xxxx on such and such a flight, and thank you for your co-operation.") that we are to carry ANY of them (office management), and aviation regulatory authority employees eg. radio aids maintenance workers.
Does QF also have such an unbalanced policy?
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptin M, basically, staff and relatives ( people with ID tickets ) are allowed to travel on the jumpseat, with the Captains approval, but they have to stay there for the whole flight .
Nunc est bibendum
G'day Kap. IWS has it correct although they are allowed out to go to the loo etc. THat in itself shows partly the lack of logic in the rule and where it is aimed.
Staff pax who we have never met before can ride the jump as long as we lock them up there from pushback. Those that we know and in some cases are married to down the back can't come and visit at all.
All designed around keeping the business class punters under the impression that we are doing something about security. The fact that what we are doing is totally illogical doesn't seem to worry the powers that be as long as it appears to the business class punters that we are.
Jump seats in this instance are still skippers discretion.
Staff pax who we have never met before can ride the jump as long as we lock them up there from pushback. Those that we know and in some cases are married to down the back can't come and visit at all.
All designed around keeping the business class punters under the impression that we are doing something about security. The fact that what we are doing is totally illogical doesn't seem to worry the powers that be as long as it appears to the business class punters that we are.
Jump seats in this instance are still skippers discretion.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"Staff pax who we have never met before can ride the jump as long as we lock them up there from pushback. Those that we know and in some cases are married to down the back can't come and visit at all.
The fact that what we are (being told to) doing is totally illogical doesn't seem to worry the powers that be as long as it appears to the business class punters that we are.
I agree with you 110% there, Keg. As you can see from my example above, our policy is even MORE ludicrous by the fact that our own families and pilots employed within the same company are not ALLOWED jump seats except for duty (observation flights).
You stated/asked the following airsupport:
"I always understood that the ultimate decision was with the Captain?
Has this authority been taken away now.
In our airline, the answer is "Yes".
We had one (Australian) Captain who refused an employee of this country's civil aviation authority a jump seat. The guy was a young, apprentice radio aids maintenance mechanic who had been given a jump seat authority by the company, to travel for "route familiarisation" (have you ever heard of such a load of cr@p!).
The Captain was "advised" of his j/s rider by ACARS prior to arrival, and "thanked for his co-operation for approving" - which he hadn't given. So he had the F/O send a message back, saying "Request denied". (Only a week or so earlier, the same Captain had requested j/s travel approval for his wife - a current, type qualified F/A, and the company had refused her.)
Upon arrival, the Captain was stood down, and sent by train back to home base, to explain "WHY" to one manager and one managerial pilot. All on a Saturday afternoon!!
The fact that what we are (being told to) doing is totally illogical doesn't seem to worry the powers that be as long as it appears to the business class punters that we are.
I agree with you 110% there, Keg. As you can see from my example above, our policy is even MORE ludicrous by the fact that our own families and pilots employed within the same company are not ALLOWED jump seats except for duty (observation flights).
You stated/asked the following airsupport:
"I always understood that the ultimate decision was with the Captain?
Has this authority been taken away now.
In our airline, the answer is "Yes".
We had one (Australian) Captain who refused an employee of this country's civil aviation authority a jump seat. The guy was a young, apprentice radio aids maintenance mechanic who had been given a jump seat authority by the company, to travel for "route familiarisation" (have you ever heard of such a load of cr@p!).
The Captain was "advised" of his j/s rider by ACARS prior to arrival, and "thanked for his co-operation for approving" - which he hadn't given. So he had the F/O send a message back, saying "Request denied". (Only a week or so earlier, the same Captain had requested j/s travel approval for his wife - a current, type qualified F/A, and the company had refused her.)
Upon arrival, the Captain was stood down, and sent by train back to home base, to explain "WHY" to one manager and one managerial pilot. All on a Saturday afternoon!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
incredible
in my opinion this will become lose hopefully in a few years. just know that most of the people that tend to do a flying training are often inspired by waht they saw that day in the cabin....
i suppose that this wil decrease the people beeing recruted.
another factor which doesn't help these days is the "high risk" of the job as a pilot. the risk has always been there but people didn't seem to realise till 09/11.
Greetings from the land of good food and women
I suppose that if QF they deny me at BR they will have me handcufed the rest of the flights and a MP waiting for me at the TPE for taking me to a touristic tour through Taipei's state hotel.
i suppose that this wil decrease the people beeing recruted.
another factor which doesn't help these days is the "high risk" of the job as a pilot. the risk has always been there but people didn't seem to realise till 09/11.
Greetings from the land of good food and women
I suppose that if QF they deny me at BR they will have me handcufed the rest of the flights and a MP waiting for me at the TPE for taking me to a touristic tour through Taipei's state hotel.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On QantasLink services, from the rulebook......
Flight deck visits by commercial passengers (regardless of age) are not permitted. Flight deck access is restricted to aircrew on duty, approved persons on staff travel, employees of clients, and regulatory officials who require access for operational purposes.
Approved person and employees of clients means someone approved by company head office prior to flight, and whose bona fides have been checked prior to that approval. You would need an ASIC card or equivalent employer issued photo ID, plus a plausible reason for being up the front.
It's a shame, but there it is. Better plan on sitting in the cabin.
p.s. PIC still has the final say, within those limits.
Flight deck visits by commercial passengers (regardless of age) are not permitted. Flight deck access is restricted to aircrew on duty, approved persons on staff travel, employees of clients, and regulatory officials who require access for operational purposes.
Approved person and employees of clients means someone approved by company head office prior to flight, and whose bona fides have been checked prior to that approval. You would need an ASIC card or equivalent employer issued photo ID, plus a plausible reason for being up the front.
It's a shame, but there it is. Better plan on sitting in the cabin.
p.s. PIC still has the final say, within those limits.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a LAME, who is employed by QF, I have always felt the opportunity to ride in the jump seat a great experience. Not only is it quite enjoyable, it gives me the opportunity to see systems I maintain daily in operation. In my mind a greater understanding of how tech crew utilise systems such as FMC's and Nav aids, allows me to better maintain and rectify difficult unserviceabilities.
I would also suggest any technical discussions that ensues on the flight deck benefits everyone, and ultimately the company.
However, the new policy makes it difficult to even ask for the jump seat. Recently I asked the check in staff if I could see captain to request jump seat, and was told "unless the captain comes and asks you....forget it...and that's the new policy".
Seems funny that I can be trusted to work all night on an aircraft...with free range to areas of it most people don't know exist....then am not allowed to ask the captain for the jump seat on that very same aircraft.
Safety and security....by all means. That doesn't mean we throw common sense and opportunity out the window.
I hope this new perspective on how ridiculous things have become enlighten a few policy makers over in those shiny blue buildings.
I would also suggest any technical discussions that ensues on the flight deck benefits everyone, and ultimately the company.
However, the new policy makes it difficult to even ask for the jump seat. Recently I asked the check in staff if I could see captain to request jump seat, and was told "unless the captain comes and asks you....forget it...and that's the new policy".
Seems funny that I can be trusted to work all night on an aircraft...with free range to areas of it most people don't know exist....then am not allowed to ask the captain for the jump seat on that very same aircraft.
Safety and security....by all means. That doesn't mean we throw common sense and opportunity out the window.
I hope this new perspective on how ridiculous things have become enlighten a few policy makers over in those shiny blue buildings.
Nunc est bibendum
However, the new policy makes it difficult to even ask for the jump seat. Recently I asked the check in staff if I could see captain to request jump seat, and was told "unless the captain comes and asks you....forget it...and that's the new policy".
Maybe the guys and girls on the gate now have a policy that says that THEY can't go and ask for the jump seat for you but I don't see where that prohibits you asking for it. I can see a (very, very small) security issue with having all sorts of staff travellers in the bridge before boarding but that hasn't stopped us to the present date!
Anyway, the whole thing is a dogs breakfast. Logic was gone from aviation a long time before Sep 11 2001. It just gave us another department to apply that lack of logic to!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney.
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tnthey I suggest it may have been that the checkin staff were too busy to go and ask for you. I've not heard of a new policy with regards requests to the Captain for the jump seat. Next time take your QF ID and see the Captain yourself, I doubt you will get a knock back.
By the way I had an engineer on the flight deck the other day and it was good to exchange information.
By the way I had an engineer on the flight deck the other day and it was good to exchange information.
Last edited by Sopwith Pup; 9th Jul 2002 at 00:13.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately crew are no longer allowed to use common sense. Particularly as there is almost always some one around willing to earn brownie points @ the head shed by filing a report if they see what they think is a transgression of the rules. 
