The first job, What to do?

[Bush Tucker guy]

Just wondering if anyone could give me their thoughts on what to do next. My situation is, I have a CPL, Instrument theorey, and AGK to finish to get the frozen ATPL.

I am still considering whether to do an instrument rating or possibly an instructor rating to gain that first job and start the log book ticking over. I was also prepared to head up north, however have heard from a couple of mates that have been in Darwin and Far North QLD for the past coulple of months, jobs are scarce and experience required is high.

Would like to know how other people went about getting the first job and any suggestions for my self would be great.

Thanks

[Transition Layer]

I was also prepared to head up north, however have heard from a couple of mates that have been in Darwin and Far North QLD for the past coulple of months, jobs are scarce and experience required is high.

Well, first thing's first, LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE!

"Up North" covers a hell of a large area, and for someone with your sort of experience, Darwin and FNQ are pretty well out of reach until you've done at least a year of charter/scenics elsewhere (i.e. 500hrs plus). There are some exceptions to this of course, like the Aboriginal community basings in Arnhem Land that many Darwin companies will send you to with low time.

Do a bit of research and you'll find many other places which hire guys with your sort of time. I'm one of 6 guys I know who "went north" this year, all with between 220 and 360hrs. 5 of us now have jobs, and the only reason the other bloke missed out is that he's in Darwin. Draw your own conclusions.

As for what to do now, well that's a toughie. You've left your run a little too late this year, so start aiming to head up here Late Feb/Early March next year. Until then, I would suggest knocking over the Instrument Rating and finish off that AGK subject (you'll find it very hard to come back to later once you're flying your a**e off). Find some meatbombing work to keep you occupied between now and when u come up, and get yourself that extra 100hrs or so that will give you a slight advantage when it comes to employment time. Find another non-flying job and start saving! You'll need those funds when you're hanging around up here waiting for any sort of work.
OR
Do an instructor rating, find some casual work and also get those extra hours to make you more employable. 250hrs vs 350hrs doesn't sound much, but it is in the eyes of some employers.

I would go the first option, for two reasons. Firstly, it gets the Instrument Rating out of the way and on your way to your first renewal (X number of renewals forms the basis of many companies employment requirements). Secondly, if you find some meatbombing work you'll most likely be flying the larger Cessna types which you'll almost certainly be flying once up here. Time on type is also a slight advantage.

Heaps of people who read these forums will be able to help you out, but it's up to you now to do some research, put out some feelers and make a decision.

All the best.

TL

[Dave Incognito]

In addition to TL's relpy, there are a few other little things that will help you out if you head north.

Try and get yourself around 5+hrs on 210s. Not only is it seen as good initiative by employers, but it will also help you out when you are thrown in one for a check flight. Once you get checked out on one from a flying school, find a whole bunch of mates and stuff them in for a couple of scenic flights or a trip away. Private hire will cost around $45/hr per seat which isn't too bad when compared agains other aeroplanes.

Get a first aid certificate or make sure yours is current.

Get a Light Rigid & F Class (commercial) drivers licence. If you score a job with a scenic company you will be required to do the pick-up/drop-offs in the company mini bus.

Most of all, be focused and don't give up. The week that I very nearly decided that I was sick of being turned away & wasn't going to show up for a fornightly "I'm still here" visit, was the week I scored a job.

Best of luck with what ever you chose.

[flipside]

Both previous posts are good just have to caution you on the instructing to get a few hour than head off. Some operators seem to have a dislike of instructors

[Ash767]

Thanks Bush Tucker Guy for posting this thread as I am pretty much in the same position as you. I am finishing off my ATPL and have my IR prac to go. The advice given by TL and Dave Incgnito was excellent.

Thanks
Ash767

[Herc Jerk]

DAVE and TL, kudos and my respect to you both. It is really good to see in this forum people helping out others with such good, practical advice.

BTG- you posted an intelligent question and got fitting replies. Go to it mate! And keep in mind DAVE's last paragraph as it is the same in my experience- when you feel like you are at the bottom of the barrel and everything has turned to worms, keep your head up and your eyes open as "it" is just around the corner- dropping your bag at these times is when you miss your opportunities.

If i was to add anything more to the posts above i would only prove that i am not half as witty and intelligent as i think i am so... good luck!!

HJ

[Bush Tucker guy]

Thanks people for your replies.

I would also like to add more questions to my original post, again any feed back would be appreciated.

For those of you that "headed north":
Were you instrument rated before heading off?
What level of flying experience did you have before gaining work?
Where did you head for?
Did you have contacts when you arrived that led to work?
How long did you stay in any particular place before moving on or scoring a job?

[drexel]

i have spent two years in a small town in northern wa

and still dont have a job, theres only so many melons you can pick

whilst watching planes fly over head on early morning tourist flights.

My advice is stay in the city, which ever it might be,get every concievable

flying related qualification possible (even large jet endorsments) and forget

about moving up north.

[redsnail]

I have replied to this question many times so I decided to put the answer on my website.
Now, of course there isn't as much recruiting going on but the rest of the points are valid.
Good luck.

[oates]

Hey Transition, ya big sk*nk! How are the Oombi girls going? Make sure you share with chinese chicken now!

BGT,
Things I have learned over the years:

An IR would be a waste of time, unless you want to fork out the cash for a renewal and probably a fair bit of refreshing in 12 months time, cos ya won't be using it! It does give you an extra sticky label in the log book for down the track though I guess...

Anway, to get a job

1)Build contacts before you go
Always take the time to chat to and get to know people in the industry. If you have a keen interest in aviation this will come automatically. Don't do it just for "the contacts", but to make friends and learn. It's not a large industry, and employers will always hire someone who has been recommended to them, over Joe Bloggs (no offense Joe )
And don't p*ss anyone off. Remember, the a*se you kick today might be the one you have to kiss tomorrow.

2)Get some qual's or skills that not everyone else can offer
I'm not talking about flying necessarily, I'm talking about things like a Language (German, Japanese, French maybe), a computer course, some basic mechanical course (offered at TAFE). As I'm writing this I am remembering some debate on pprune a while ago about this, but anyway I believe it puts you a cut above the rest.

3)Then Haul A*se to where the jobs are
I'm not familiar with the whole of oz, but I think the starter jobs are in the Kimberley. Figure out the hiring times (around March for YPKU I think from memory). Get there a while before that, go out and see the operators every week, and I reckon you can't go wrong. Be prepared to go to places that others aren't. If you get a sniff of a job, and you can humanly manage it, drop everything and get there. (I recently landed a great twin job by making that effort)

4)Wait, and then wait some more

And from my experience (ouch this is gonna hurt, I can feel the hits coming already) instructors can be a little hard to work with in a GA charter outfit, simply because they may have the same HOURS, but almost always no EXPERIENCE when it comes to operating an aircraft in a charter environment (ie full loads, drum refuelling (egad!) difficult passengers, etc). I would rather work with a fresh CPL who listens and wants to learn, than a 500hr instructor who wants to teach me (don't get me wrong, I'm always open to new ideas) how to fly a fully laden Cessna because thats what the North American written POH says....

Wow, did I just think that, or did I write that...

[The Gimp]

Who's your daddy

Great posts TL & Dave. Only thing I have against oates is the IR. I say go get it. Gets it out of the way.

The Gimp


back to the jameson.

[Propsrforboats]

WRT having an instrument rating, one thing I overheard my former CP tell a newbie who didn't have one was: Why would he hire someone without one when he has a 6' high stack of resumes from guys with an IR?

Fair enough that you will not need it for that first job (most of the time) but it is that (somewhat) "peace of mind" for the guy employing you that "IF" you were to find yourself in IMC you have a better chance of returning the plane in a reusable condition than the guy without the IR.

Besides, as was said earlier, you can start building that number of renewals that many of the mid size companies want.

That's my food for thought, so good luck in your choices and happy flying

[Gumaaark]

Get an instrument rating.
If you want a career in aviation, it has to be done sooner or later, and the skills learned will be handy even if you're just a vfr pilot doing scenics or remote area charter.
This is not to mention the six weeks (minimum) you would need off work, to do it once employed (sometimes difficult to get depending on your employer).

The only advantage to NOT doing an instrument rating is the tax claim if you do it after you get a job. Admitedly this is a good reason...

Don't bother with an instructor rating unless you want to be an instructor. It is the wrong way to go if you only want to get to 400 hours before getting a charter job. It is also $6-8000 that could be more usefully spent.

If you WANT to instruct, or prefer to stay in a larger town/city (for family or whatever reason) then make a committment to instruct for a lengthier time period, give something to your students rather than just taking. (My opinion only )

If you want to go "north" then do it, It was one of the best experiences of my life (flying wise, socially, culture experience )
and you will come away with hundreds of stories and alot of good mates.

Consider Darwin, Gove, Jabiru, Oenpelli, Alice Springs, Kunnunurra, Broome? these are places I know of where low hour guys (including me) got a start. THERE ARE MANY OTHERS.

Another (often forgotten) option is station work on cattle properties. This exists in West Qld, NT, W.A. North SA?, and is a very handy way to get 500-1000 hrs with a great assortment of flying. It can also be a great learning experience about this wonderful country we live in...

Don't ask me how to get into that area, hopefully some-one who knows will post.

Anyway, good luck and remember,

"Everything written above may be wrong"

[cleatus]

Look at the station option for your first job. Often they require 200 to 250hrs. The work & life is hard but if you get good job the hours come quickly. I gained over 800hrs in my first year of station work. Scenics & charter are not the only option. Look in newspapers such as the Queensland Country Life, regularly you will find station pilot jobs in the back of these papers. Also check out the Aviation Trader, I think that is what it is called, it often has station pilot jobs in the back also. Try companies such as Stanbroke, NAPCO, AA Company, Kidman Pastoral, Helimuster at Victoria River Downs, Great Western Pastoral Co., & Im sure there are more out there. Also do the IR before you go then you wont have to do it later, & it may help you get your first job, maybe not on a station(it did with me however as I was flying a IFR C-182 around the Territory & QLD), but charter companies may like it. Do some research before you head north, go to the local Post Office & find the Yellow Pages for the Territory, northern Western Australia & Northen QLD, rip out the aviation section & start dialing, to find requirements & when they may be recruiting. Dont just call the major companies, also ring companies with little 1 line ads in remote communities that you have never heard of, they will be most likely to give you a go, more readily than the companies in major centres as remote living is difficult & they may turn over pilots quicker. When I was first looking for work in 1997 it only took a month & a half to get my first job. I went to Darwin & met guys who had been sitting there for 6 months to a year but would not venture far from Darwin to find work. If you want to succeed, make sacrifices now for rewards later. I left the Sunshine Coast to find work. That was tough!
Good luck.

[exmexican]

BGT, can't stress enough the need for a instrument rating. Most operators with twins in their fleet won't put you in 'em without one. If things pick up in the industry, your progession could be quicker than in the past, and you don't want anything standing in your way.
If you're considering getting an instructor rating as well just to build hours, ponder this. $8K could get you an endorsement and a bit of hire time(cost- shared with mates of course) in a twin like the ones used up here, eg Baron, C310 even PA 31. Looks good on the resume (where is that f#&@g accent symbol anyway) and could put you ahead of someone without it. The only use I got out of my Gr III was experience in "psychology of line checking" with new pilots, it can help a potential pilot if you understand how and why nerves affect a check flight.
Contacts are everything, inside info is invaluable.
New pilot, know your "place" in the industry, but don't let some w@nker with 1000hrs think he's a better human than you, he's not, he just got here 12 months before you did.
All the best

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Nice to see people helping others out! I have a mate who went up to Kunnunurra (spelling?) and started sweeping the hangar floor, and ended up flying a couple of months later - he was then looking at going onto twins else where when the industry died. Have you thought about military.. They pay you to learn

[Capt L]

Always be flexible. Be ready to go where the jobs are, where ever that may be. And stay in touch with your instuctors and flying school, you never know when they might get a phone call from a CP asking if they know of any pilots looking for work.

Good luck and remember to have fun!!!

[engage left autopilot]

hi all this is only my opinion, but hey it has worked so far

first of all list all the places that u think u have at least a chance of attaining a job for what ever reason. think things like people u know in the area, other non aviation jobs that will help u at least live until u have the first flying job, distance from where u are, companies that u actually want to work for, the companies further prospect ie: it is better to wait an extra three months with the opportunity to move to twinsafter 12 months in the company rather than have 5 different jobs all of which u had to move for and all off which u were without a job for three months for, i'm saying think the long term. my first job was the only piston job i had, it lasted 3 years and at the end i had 1000 multi and 2500 total, admittidly i was lucky but it was part of the plan. they also helped me onto my first turbine job.

if u need to find another job in the mean time look for a job that involves alcohol. usually the local pilots will be near. not only that but is also helps to save money in the long term. we use to work at the local bar, which mean't free drinks each fri night plus we earned $80 instead of spending it, and hey the girls were always forthcoming.

finally once u dicide where u are going to be, work out which is better for the majority of companies, if u have 250 hours then a instrument rating is useless, but if they dont have a training school then so is the instructor rating. i did the instructor rating because it helps me to learn by being able to teach others plus it's where i want to be when i'm 60. if u dont have a desire to instruct the dont waste the money or the time of your students. instructing should be left to those who can provide something to the students because they want to.

finally good luck. if u go up north enjoy every mnute of it because when u have to live in sydney again u'll be wishing for the life when u were up north. it's hard but it is a experience that no one has ever regretted. basicaly work hard and play hard

[Bush Tucker guy]

Thanks guys, you have all given me different aspects and opinions to think about. I appreciate all the posts so far and any further comments poeple would like to add.

Cheers, Bush Tucker guy

[strewth]

I've been in Darwin for about 2 years now, and only got my first job after 12 months.

The ONLY way you will get a job is

1. Be prepared. RESEARCH!!!!!

2. Be willing. That said, don't pay for work and don't work for free, it just insults your self and everyone else that has paid up for their commercial licence.

3. Be there (this is a big one.... Don't ring if your not going to turn up, don't send a letter if your not going to turn up. If you don't turn up, you WON'T get the job)

4. Don't give up. I have met HEAPS of unemployed pilots that have stayed through the hard times and made it. And I have met HEAPS more that gave up after a month then went home. The guys that stayed have jobs in planes, the ones that don't have jobs at Maccas.

If you turn up to a company enough, they will eventually know your face. You will get to meet the other pilots you might be working with and, if you get on with them, they might just help you out a little. You won't get a job by just driving around the GA apron looking at planes, you have to go INTO the building and talk to somebody.

As far as the Instrument rating/Instructors rating is concerned. If you have the money, it is a good investement. It will give you more hours in the log book, and more confidence in your abilities in the aircraft. Getting "heavy" single time in your logbook isn't always the best way of spending the few $$$ you have left. They cost alot to hire per hour, so unless you've got it full of friends on the way to the beach or Birdsville, you won't get your money worth. All of the operators WILL give you ICUS once you start. It's not like they just send you out with the keys and MR to a community and say "good luck". Its not in their interest. Just get the extra hours in the log book and the extra qualification for the resume. Someone before said that alot of operators look down on instructors and instructor ratings... that might be true, but others prefer instructor time for exactly the same reasons.

Good luck all, take the plunge and get your self up into the heat.