MacfliteTrainee Pilot Program?
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MacfliteTrainee Pilot Program?
Can anyone that has been involved or know of anyone that has, shed some light on this program?
Before I go and sell my business to finance this training I would really like to know if the 12 months FO experience is of any REAL benefit? Real meaning, will my 100hrs or so of command + 500hrs
as FO put me in a real good position in our industry? Or, Is it off flying C206's to get some command time? This is not a situation I would be happy in after spending close to 90K. Opinions please?
Discreet replies to [email protected]
Before I go and sell my business to finance this training I would really like to know if the 12 months FO experience is of any REAL benefit? Real meaning, will my 100hrs or so of command + 500hrs
as FO put me in a real good position in our industry? Or, Is it off flying C206's to get some command time? This is not a situation I would be happy in after spending close to 90K. Opinions please?
Discreet replies to [email protected]
Bottums Up
Jerry,
I can't comment on the Macflight course as I know nothing about it.
Generally speaking though, F/O time without Command time is not particularly helpful in establishing one's career.
You could take the view that by getting a years F/O time, you will still learn and in a way just be extending your 'trainee ship'. However unless there is a quantum change in the way the industry works in the interim, at the end of the F/Oing, you'll still only have 100 hrs command and when looking for a command job you'll be up against all the other 100 command hour applicants.
In my limited experience, folk who have gone straight from learning to fly to becoming an F/O, invariably have trouble when they want command, because they don't have the command time to meet the minimum regulatory requirements to hold a command. This has nothing to do with them being a good operator or otherwise, it's simply having the required experience to hold a command, or even gain an ATPL.
Having said that, if you feel that gaining a CPL then having guaranteed work for a year as an F/O before you go out looking for the 'bush' job is worth it for you, then you certainly won't be wasting your time, possibly just taking a little longer to get there, whereever your 'there' is.
Happy Flying What a way to make a living!!!!
I can't comment on the Macflight course as I know nothing about it.
Generally speaking though, F/O time without Command time is not particularly helpful in establishing one's career.
You could take the view that by getting a years F/O time, you will still learn and in a way just be extending your 'trainee ship'. However unless there is a quantum change in the way the industry works in the interim, at the end of the F/Oing, you'll still only have 100 hrs command and when looking for a command job you'll be up against all the other 100 command hour applicants.
In my limited experience, folk who have gone straight from learning to fly to becoming an F/O, invariably have trouble when they want command, because they don't have the command time to meet the minimum regulatory requirements to hold a command. This has nothing to do with them being a good operator or otherwise, it's simply having the required experience to hold a command, or even gain an ATPL.
Having said that, if you feel that gaining a CPL then having guaranteed work for a year as an F/O before you go out looking for the 'bush' job is worth it for you, then you certainly won't be wasting your time, possibly just taking a little longer to get there, whereever your 'there' is.
Happy Flying What a way to make a living!!!!
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Capt Claret. Thankyou for your reply. There's a bit to think about. It doesn't really sound as a beneficial program, especially since I have to fork out 90 G's.
"Hellooooo Jerry"!
"Hello Newman"!
"Hellooooo Jerry"!
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I agree with CC unless the company will do a hell of a lot of ICUS for you to meet their company req for a command(can't see ****** doing that but ???). having said that if you can afford the extra money why not, sure after the year you will be back to competing against the 100 hr guys but you will have a (slight) advantage. than when you get the hours for an ATPL a Metro endorcement is a good one to have.
life is full of choises this is just another one.
life is full of choises this is just another one.
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1-200 years ago people HAD TO PAY to get an apprenticeship. I suppose we are going back to the good old / bad old days. By age 65 we'll manage to pay of the apprenticeship and start working. Oh bugga it's pension time.
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I can help with your query!
I was visiting in oz last week and saw the ad you mentioned, it has a number to call and ask for ***** ******, is that correct.
1st: the reason ther is auto sensorship on this site is because macflite is linked to ******** and ******, both fo which were involved a few years ago in a bitter feud on jetblast tha got very messy as people were dropping names etc..............
However....... if you front up and pay your money you will get an aussie cpl with a command instrument rating and a frozen atpl. that means you will have to pass the theory subjects but will not be issued the licence from casa until you get the reqrd hours......
Then the selection process will take a few different steps..... if there are heaps of you paying for the course then there will only be limited positions available in both M^cair and J$tcraft especially now as JC has lost alot of contracts and has way too many pilots,, probably goes the same for M*cair too?
Anyway if you are gifted enough to dux the course you will be shipped off to townsville or brisbane to do your f/o endorsement which you will have to pay for and probably be training bonded to the company for say 18mths or 2 years.
If you get into M^cair you will fly RPT from townsville or even brisvegas if you get into J^tcraft you could end up anywhere but seen as though they dont have any f/o's anymore you will most probably end up in townsville.
After doing your f/o time you will need some command experience to gain you command with them, this will be a command metro endorsement most likely as they will not put you straight onto the saab. I believe they are tied into air mount isa in some way and that could mean you will end up in the bush probably flying some sort of twin engine piston around for 1000 hrs or so until they remember who you are and put you back into the system with a command.........
You will need to ask all these questions and many more like what will be my pay ( is it the award wage for regional 19 seat turbo prop etc), if you have to go to the bush what will be your wage and conditions of service then ( again based on award you would hope) etc etc etc etc
what safety and protection do you have if they go bust, remember what i said about their freight division, this industry runs in cycles and i believe they had their good run on freight a few years ago, they are also linked with tr^nstate airlines in cairns, so you could even end up on a banderantie?????( dont know how to spel that one)
flying the top end on rpt( regular public transport).
I personally know the first guy to complete the course a few years back and he went on to a command on the metro and lost his job because of a very bad mistake made with a couple of engines ( roughly $500,000 damage). Don't think that just because you will get the endorsement you will know what you are doing, these acft are nice and dosile while they are in clear skies but put them in icing conditions with a low experienced driver and they are a handful.
I wish you all the best..........
ps i think qantas is still holding a self funded cadet training program in BAFTA adelaide costs around $100k + and doesn't guarantee non QF sons and daughters a job in the airline either....
I was visiting in oz last week and saw the ad you mentioned, it has a number to call and ask for ***** ******, is that correct.
1st: the reason ther is auto sensorship on this site is because macflite is linked to ******** and ******, both fo which were involved a few years ago in a bitter feud on jetblast tha got very messy as people were dropping names etc..............
However....... if you front up and pay your money you will get an aussie cpl with a command instrument rating and a frozen atpl. that means you will have to pass the theory subjects but will not be issued the licence from casa until you get the reqrd hours......
Then the selection process will take a few different steps..... if there are heaps of you paying for the course then there will only be limited positions available in both M^cair and J$tcraft especially now as JC has lost alot of contracts and has way too many pilots,, probably goes the same for M*cair too?
Anyway if you are gifted enough to dux the course you will be shipped off to townsville or brisbane to do your f/o endorsement which you will have to pay for and probably be training bonded to the company for say 18mths or 2 years.
If you get into M^cair you will fly RPT from townsville or even brisvegas if you get into J^tcraft you could end up anywhere but seen as though they dont have any f/o's anymore you will most probably end up in townsville.
After doing your f/o time you will need some command experience to gain you command with them, this will be a command metro endorsement most likely as they will not put you straight onto the saab. I believe they are tied into air mount isa in some way and that could mean you will end up in the bush probably flying some sort of twin engine piston around for 1000 hrs or so until they remember who you are and put you back into the system with a command.........
You will need to ask all these questions and many more like what will be my pay ( is it the award wage for regional 19 seat turbo prop etc), if you have to go to the bush what will be your wage and conditions of service then ( again based on award you would hope) etc etc etc etc
what safety and protection do you have if they go bust, remember what i said about their freight division, this industry runs in cycles and i believe they had their good run on freight a few years ago, they are also linked with tr^nstate airlines in cairns, so you could even end up on a banderantie?????( dont know how to spel that one)
flying the top end on rpt( regular public transport).
I personally know the first guy to complete the course a few years back and he went on to a command on the metro and lost his job because of a very bad mistake made with a couple of engines ( roughly $500,000 damage). Don't think that just because you will get the endorsement you will know what you are doing, these acft are nice and dosile while they are in clear skies but put them in icing conditions with a low experienced driver and they are a handful.
I wish you all the best..........
ps i think qantas is still holding a self funded cadet training program in BAFTA adelaide costs around $100k + and doesn't guarantee non QF sons and daughters a job in the airline either....
Last edited by Woomera; 23rd May 2002 at 16:53.
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I must be missing something in the translation, surely the 90k includes the metro end & therefore no bond. If you have to pay 90k AND metro end AND bond that is simply outrageous
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All studs get endorsed as part of the course. No bonding. Pay is as per the GA Award. $31K ish plus allowances. All studs get a job if they graduate (part of the contract).
Hvy 18 Whlr is a bit out of date. The guy referred to in his post was not a Macflite guy but from a different program.
Hvy 18 Whlr is a bit out of date. The guy referred to in his post was not a Macflite guy but from a different program.
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Like Jerry I am looking at the Macflite program and would like to hear people's opinions.
To keep it discreet can you please email [email protected]
Thanks.
To keep it discreet can you please email [email protected]
Thanks.
Here's my take on whether you should put your hard earned dollars down for the cadetship:
I did the cadetship run by Pacific Rim Aviation during 1999-2000. The course no longer exists (for a number of reasons) but operated on very similar pronciples to the MacFlite scheme.
I did my civilian training up to CPL, then did my M/E CIR. I was fortunate enough to also do a B1900 groundschool (as opposed to the Twin Otter), and then went off to join the regional company in PNG that we were contracted with. At this stage I had just short of 400 hours TT.
I completed all of my F/O training on the 1900, then my line training, and was subsequently checked to line. I flew the 1900 for app 10 months before a position came up with the opportunity to get some command time on a C402. Having just short of 1000 hs TT, I jumped at the opportunity. Importantly, the opportunity arose because of the F/O time I had accrued on the 1900 - I was quite familiar with many of the strips that the 402 would be going into, as the 1900 had operated to many of them, and also had the benefits of experiencing IFR flight PNG style.
Anyway - after just short of 600 hours on the 402 I fired off my app to Qantas, and ended up being successful. As it is, I'm currently sitting at an internet cafe in High Street Kensington, typing this, having opertaed as part of the crew on the 744 up from Sydney...
I'm not saying that you will follow a similar path - just what I experienced. To answer your question of whether you should put down your money? I can't answer that - it is entirely up to you. However, I feel that if you are prepared to work hard & keep your head down for the next 18 months - 2 years, doing the cadetship will give you great experience that will stand you in good stead for your future airline career - if that is what you are aiming for.
Sure, the course cost me about $85 000 - but it took myself (and others) from low time bare CPL's to Qantas in approximately 18 months to 2 years. I figure that with my new found riches courtesy of QF I can probably pay the course off in the next couple of years, and then be home & hosed...miles in front as far as I'm concerned.
All the best to you with whatever you decide - I hope it works out for you either way.
I did the cadetship run by Pacific Rim Aviation during 1999-2000. The course no longer exists (for a number of reasons) but operated on very similar pronciples to the MacFlite scheme.
I did my civilian training up to CPL, then did my M/E CIR. I was fortunate enough to also do a B1900 groundschool (as opposed to the Twin Otter), and then went off to join the regional company in PNG that we were contracted with. At this stage I had just short of 400 hours TT.
I completed all of my F/O training on the 1900, then my line training, and was subsequently checked to line. I flew the 1900 for app 10 months before a position came up with the opportunity to get some command time on a C402. Having just short of 1000 hs TT, I jumped at the opportunity. Importantly, the opportunity arose because of the F/O time I had accrued on the 1900 - I was quite familiar with many of the strips that the 402 would be going into, as the 1900 had operated to many of them, and also had the benefits of experiencing IFR flight PNG style.
Anyway - after just short of 600 hours on the 402 I fired off my app to Qantas, and ended up being successful. As it is, I'm currently sitting at an internet cafe in High Street Kensington, typing this, having opertaed as part of the crew on the 744 up from Sydney...
I'm not saying that you will follow a similar path - just what I experienced. To answer your question of whether you should put down your money? I can't answer that - it is entirely up to you. However, I feel that if you are prepared to work hard & keep your head down for the next 18 months - 2 years, doing the cadetship will give you great experience that will stand you in good stead for your future airline career - if that is what you are aiming for.
Sure, the course cost me about $85 000 - but it took myself (and others) from low time bare CPL's to Qantas in approximately 18 months to 2 years. I figure that with my new found riches courtesy of QF I can probably pay the course off in the next couple of years, and then be home & hosed...miles in front as far as I'm concerned.
All the best to you with whatever you decide - I hope it works out for you either way.
