2 more 717-200's
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2 more 717-200's
Further to the SMH report of 10 more jets for Impulse as per QF GM's statement yesterday. I had recieved word today that QANTAS airways have confirmed the order for two more jet's.
Good on you VQ boys.
Patience is a virtue and well done.
As for those southern boys.....well thats another story.....
Good on you VQ boys.
Patience is a virtue and well done.
As for those southern boys.....well thats another story.....
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FS
Quit with the daggers directed at other good airlines. Southerns are going through more than you can fathom, and this only rubs salt into fresh wounds.
Should VQ aquire more B717's then great for them, but this is a rumour network, not a place to throw daggers due to someone else's good fortune.
Quit with the daggers directed at other good airlines. Southerns are going through more than you can fathom, and this only rubs salt into fresh wounds.
Should VQ aquire more B717's then great for them, but this is a rumour network, not a place to throw daggers due to someone else's good fortune.
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Lets be positive and not start slanging off at anyone. IF impulse gets more jets it is all good
-the 50 B1900 pilots might advoid centrelink
-there will probably be slots for 146 & dash 8 drivers
-movement out of ga (or ex ansett regionals) and into a dash 8 for some
SO IT IS ALL GOOD LETS HOPE FOR THEM NOT AGAINST THEM
Flyswat, re the Qantas approval is this the same thing as earlier in the year waiting,waiting,waiting or has there or will there be something concrete rather than some media statement (if it is in the paper in MUST be correct)
-the 50 B1900 pilots might advoid centrelink
-there will probably be slots for 146 & dash 8 drivers
-movement out of ga (or ex ansett regionals) and into a dash 8 for some
SO IT IS ALL GOOD LETS HOPE FOR THEM NOT AGAINST THEM
Flyswat, re the Qantas approval is this the same thing as earlier in the year waiting,waiting,waiting or has there or will there be something concrete rather than some media statement (if it is in the paper in MUST be correct)
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The more, the better
Bring 'em on. There's still a heap of ex-AN guys out here looking for work too. So much experience and industrial memory likely to disappear. It greatly saddens me that those at Southern are fearful of their future with the possibility that what happened to us at AN will happen to them too. I sincerly hope that what you fear doesn't transpire. At the moment, those with good levels of experince and a demonstrated track record are getting the knockback from just about everywhere. I cant think why. Be very nice to get a look in here, or anywhere for that matter...
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Skin Chimney
Two points i would like to make in regards to your reply.
1) I find it quite amusing that you speak of others pulling out the daggers against Southerns (personally which I don't agree with either) when it was rumoured to be the same "good Airline" that knifed Impulse in the back by running to CASA with claims of unsatisfactory experience levels of pilots on the B717. At the same time Approaching Qlink management demanding slots be made available for certain pilots on the newly arriving B717's.
To those who are aware of this and I'm not saying your one of them the words coming from impulse managements mouths were to the effect of OVER MY DEAD BODY. BTW experience levels on the B717 are Far and away above not only what CASA requires but what the Impulse OP's Manual Requires also.
2) I do believe the impulse pilots (although not one of them) can understand how the Southerns Guy's Feel. Since our take over we have seen the BNE B717 base close, OOL base open and subsequently close. The MEL B1900 base close less than 3 months after it opened and know have 40 or so pilots starring down the barrel of redundancy all this in less than 1 year. Trust me the Southern Guys are not alone in this reshuffle.
like you Skin Chimney I do not like people bagging out other people who do their best just to make a living in this industry and I 100% agree that Southerns are a good airline, however the respect needs to go both ways and "some" of the guys down south aren't showing that at the moment.
Two points i would like to make in regards to your reply.
1) I find it quite amusing that you speak of others pulling out the daggers against Southerns (personally which I don't agree with either) when it was rumoured to be the same "good Airline" that knifed Impulse in the back by running to CASA with claims of unsatisfactory experience levels of pilots on the B717. At the same time Approaching Qlink management demanding slots be made available for certain pilots on the newly arriving B717's.
To those who are aware of this and I'm not saying your one of them the words coming from impulse managements mouths were to the effect of OVER MY DEAD BODY. BTW experience levels on the B717 are Far and away above not only what CASA requires but what the Impulse OP's Manual Requires also.
2) I do believe the impulse pilots (although not one of them) can understand how the Southerns Guy's Feel. Since our take over we have seen the BNE B717 base close, OOL base open and subsequently close. The MEL B1900 base close less than 3 months after it opened and know have 40 or so pilots starring down the barrel of redundancy all this in less than 1 year. Trust me the Southern Guys are not alone in this reshuffle.
like you Skin Chimney I do not like people bagging out other people who do their best just to make a living in this industry and I 100% agree that Southerns are a good airline, however the respect needs to go both ways and "some" of the guys down south aren't showing that at the moment.
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I imagine there would be a lot of ex DC-9 drivers out there with considerable experience on the airframe. Sure the engine may have changed as well as some of the systems, but by and large its still a DC-9.
A very good workhorse and very suited to short haul sectors.
A very good workhorse and very suited to short haul sectors.
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We all agree the Southern situation is an unsavoury one, but who's side are some of these guys on? Demanding 717 slots from the get go (without proposing a workable solution ie. sit and talk to the impulse pilot group about possible slots going to Southern after all current Impulse pilots are absorbed onto the 717 considering there will be 50+ surplus slots if all goes to plan) as well as approaching CASA with this inexperience issue........are these guys nuts? Any support from the Airconnex management has now surely evapourated.
Nice work boyz!!!
Nice work boyz!!!
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Couple of points here...firstly the review of Impulse by CASA has occurred because of what Qantas has done to Southern. CASA is now looking at all the QF regional subsidiaries, including us here at Eastern. Talk of Southern pointing the finger and causing a CASA enquiry are garbage. You can thank QF management for their appaling handling of their regional subsidiaries for the CASA microscope
Secondly, Loco Smoko, you talk of Impulse drivers understanding the Southern situation and I don't doubt that some do. However, don't forget that QF rescued you and your jobs from certain oblivion by purchasing the company as it was going under. A degree of inconvenience with base changes etc. is small price to pay for continued full time work with a secure jet career path. Unfortunately the Southern guys & gals have suffered base changes, had their career paths removed and been treated with total disrespect by QF, and why? Because they have consistently made a profit for QF, go figure. I'm afraid I cannot give any sympathy to Impulse staff for their inconvenience, at least they have a job.
Secondly, Loco Smoko, you talk of Impulse drivers understanding the Southern situation and I don't doubt that some do. However, don't forget that QF rescued you and your jobs from certain oblivion by purchasing the company as it was going under. A degree of inconvenience with base changes etc. is small price to pay for continued full time work with a secure jet career path. Unfortunately the Southern guys & gals have suffered base changes, had their career paths removed and been treated with total disrespect by QF, and why? Because they have consistently made a profit for QF, go figure. I'm afraid I cannot give any sympathy to Impulse staff for their inconvenience, at least they have a job.
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Slim,
you have obviously mis understood what i was saying.
I was merely pointing out the fact that the guys and gals flying for impulse can see where the southern people are coming from.
Yes everyone at Impulse I'm sure is grateful that Qantas put up the cash so we could keep our jobs. But what i was saying is that the pilots have been and still are going to work each and everyday not knowing when their last day is. VR's have already been offered (not sure the numbers accepted) and CR's are due at the end of this financial year, but noone is saying anything for sure "just in case". So in summary SLIM for what ever the reason the B1900 impulse guys are in a similar situation to the southerns guys.
But I guess you were just trying to point out the fact that since Qantas "saved us", we should be grateful for any f@#k up the arse we get.
BTW the Southern going to CASA comments are from a reliable source and apparently correct. You are correct about the safety audits due to the current situation, but who went to CASA in the first place with concerns of safety on the flight deck? oh thats right the the Easter Bunny.
you have obviously mis understood what i was saying.
I was merely pointing out the fact that the guys and gals flying for impulse can see where the southern people are coming from.
Yes everyone at Impulse I'm sure is grateful that Qantas put up the cash so we could keep our jobs. But what i was saying is that the pilots have been and still are going to work each and everyday not knowing when their last day is. VR's have already been offered (not sure the numbers accepted) and CR's are due at the end of this financial year, but noone is saying anything for sure "just in case". So in summary SLIM for what ever the reason the B1900 impulse guys are in a similar situation to the southerns guys.
But I guess you were just trying to point out the fact that since Qantas "saved us", we should be grateful for any f@#k up the arse we get.
BTW the Southern going to CASA comments are from a reliable source and apparently correct. You are correct about the safety audits due to the current situation, but who went to CASA in the first place with concerns of safety on the flight deck? oh thats right the the Easter Bunny.
Last edited by Loco's Smoko; 12th May 2002 at 03:12.
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So let me see if i understand this..
Southern were operating jets out of Tasmania and Canberra, Qantas take that flying off them and give it to Airconex/impulse, then turn around and say to the Southern Pilots you no longer have a job...
Airconex/Impulse are getting more aircraft...
Southern pilots work for Qantas, airconex/impulse pilots work for Qantas...
Southern pilots have worked for Qantas for a long time....
AND some people wonder why they want direct entry into the airline that put them out of work.....
The sooner a Datel seniority list is worked out that includes ALL the Qantas owned Regionals the better...
What happens when Qantas no longer like Dash 8's or 717's and everybody is replaced by a new company that is operating the next generation aircraft for a dollar less.....
Southern were operating jets out of Tasmania and Canberra, Qantas take that flying off them and give it to Airconex/impulse, then turn around and say to the Southern Pilots you no longer have a job...
Airconex/Impulse are getting more aircraft...
Southern pilots work for Qantas, airconex/impulse pilots work for Qantas...
Southern pilots have worked for Qantas for a long time....
AND some people wonder why they want direct entry into the airline that put them out of work.....
The sooner a Datel seniority list is worked out that includes ALL the Qantas owned Regionals the better...
What happens when Qantas no longer like Dash 8's or 717's and everybody is replaced by a new company that is operating the next generation aircraft for a dollar less.....
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As someone who flys the 717s I agree/disagree with alot that has been said on this forum but I have to comment on the following.
As far as a integration of Southern pilots into Impulse, I would say Qantas would be worryed about the cultural differences. This is case in point if the rumour of Southern guys calling in CASA on Impulse experience levels is true. Very nasty and unprofessional.
The point Id like to make though is that any hiring of Southern pilots into the Impulse system has to be at the bottom of the seniority list and with up to 50 facing redundancy off the 1900, this could take awhile. To think that just because Qantas prefers the 717 over the 146 that we should allow an influx of guys over top of us is rediculous. Would this occur if the circumstances were reversed? I think not.
Also, stop blaming Impulse guys for what is happening. Qantas bought us for a reason...economics. Not as a favour to us poor Impulse guys...Not for personal reasons...Not to upset the other regionals...Just plain economics. Remember, ALL the regionals were bought by Qantas. They didnt start as Qantas.
On a positive note, I would say that if these next 10 717s come along, Impulse will have to hire more direct entry Captains and I would hope that any displaced Southern / Airlink pilots with positive attitudes get the inside track.
As far as a integration of Southern pilots into Impulse, I would say Qantas would be worryed about the cultural differences. This is case in point if the rumour of Southern guys calling in CASA on Impulse experience levels is true. Very nasty and unprofessional.
The point Id like to make though is that any hiring of Southern pilots into the Impulse system has to be at the bottom of the seniority list and with up to 50 facing redundancy off the 1900, this could take awhile. To think that just because Qantas prefers the 717 over the 146 that we should allow an influx of guys over top of us is rediculous. Would this occur if the circumstances were reversed? I think not.
Also, stop blaming Impulse guys for what is happening. Qantas bought us for a reason...economics. Not as a favour to us poor Impulse guys...Not for personal reasons...Not to upset the other regionals...Just plain economics. Remember, ALL the regionals were bought by Qantas. They didnt start as Qantas.
On a positive note, I would say that if these next 10 717s come along, Impulse will have to hire more direct entry Captains and I would hope that any displaced Southern / Airlink pilots with positive attitudes get the inside track.
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I 100% agree Mr Abnormal.
I doubt any Impulse pilot would have a problem with Southerns 146 drivers coming onto the jet once all of our own guys are sorted out.
Spinout, so what your saying is that if I were a B1900 captain who was being made redundant i Should be able to slide across onto the Left Seat of a DASH 8 because I'm already a Turboprop driver who works for QantasLink. I didn't think so...
Actually come to think of it I haven't heard of any Ipmulse pilots going for Easterns interviews yet. oh but I guess we wouldn't have to do that we'll just demand the F*&king job.
Doesn't sound like the right thing to do now does it.
That Aside I would like to once again point out that this is
not a personal dig at any member of the QLink staff whether they be a pilot FA ops controller or manager, it's just an observation from our side of the fence. and as Mr Abnormal pointed out if the roles were reversed, what then?
Southerns, Easterns, and Sunnies are all very reputible companies. It's F*&cked the way things have gone for Southerns I don't agree with the way things have happened but at the end of the day we are all still seperate entity's until we are formed together and we must expect that our own companies will look after our own staff first. I hope you would expect the same from your companies and have every right too.
I doubt any Impulse pilot would have a problem with Southerns 146 drivers coming onto the jet once all of our own guys are sorted out.
Spinout, so what your saying is that if I were a B1900 captain who was being made redundant i Should be able to slide across onto the Left Seat of a DASH 8 because I'm already a Turboprop driver who works for QantasLink. I didn't think so...
Actually come to think of it I haven't heard of any Ipmulse pilots going for Easterns interviews yet. oh but I guess we wouldn't have to do that we'll just demand the F*&king job.
Doesn't sound like the right thing to do now does it.
That Aside I would like to once again point out that this is
not a personal dig at any member of the QLink staff whether they be a pilot FA ops controller or manager, it's just an observation from our side of the fence. and as Mr Abnormal pointed out if the roles were reversed, what then?
Southerns, Easterns, and Sunnies are all very reputible companies. It's F*&cked the way things have gone for Southerns I don't agree with the way things have happened but at the end of the day we are all still seperate entity's until we are formed together and we must expect that our own companies will look after our own staff first. I hope you would expect the same from your companies and have every right too.
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From my limeted knowlage of the Airconnex contarct with crew
any Pilots made redundant have the right to return up to 3 years from redundancy. Sounds like a good deal if you can get it.
any Pilots made redundant have the right to return up to 3 years from redundancy. Sounds like a good deal if you can get it.
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Loco's Smoko - if you were a 1900 pilot who was facing redundancy, and if there were positions available at Eastern, then of course you should be offered a position.
Secondly, if Impulse standards are so high, why are you worried about CASA overseeing the operation? What are you upset about? So what if someone thinks you don't have enough experience - if you do, what's the problem? It's not as if this is tarneshing your repuation or anything, is it?
Mr Abnormal, what are the 'cultural' differences between Impulse and Southern pilots? I mean, what are you talking about? Do Southern pilots come from a particular ethnic group or minority religion or something? Oh now I get it, Impulse pilots are perceived within the aviation industry as having denigrated their profession by accepting sub-standard wages and conditions. That's the cultural difference! Its a question of the 'real' Qantas regional airlines (those with integration for their FAs, staff travel and shares in Qantas for all staff) as opposed to Impulse.
Secondly, if Impulse standards are so high, why are you worried about CASA overseeing the operation? What are you upset about? So what if someone thinks you don't have enough experience - if you do, what's the problem? It's not as if this is tarneshing your repuation or anything, is it?
Mr Abnormal, what are the 'cultural' differences between Impulse and Southern pilots? I mean, what are you talking about? Do Southern pilots come from a particular ethnic group or minority religion or something? Oh now I get it, Impulse pilots are perceived within the aviation industry as having denigrated their profession by accepting sub-standard wages and conditions. That's the cultural difference! Its a question of the 'real' Qantas regional airlines (those with integration for their FAs, staff travel and shares in Qantas for all staff) as opposed to Impulse.
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djembe56...
What was the point of your last post? Are you agreeing that there is a difference in culture (ie. attitude) between Impulse and Southern crews? Your remarks highlight the fact that - yes there is.
What you said seemed really catty... (please correct me if I am wrong). If you did not mean to be like that then I apologise. From my own experience as a FA I have been victim of this culture difference myself. Both with the 'real' (as you call it) QF regionals and mainline itself. (By mainline I mean CSAs/gate staff in SYD and OOL. All the mainline FAs I bump into are great!). I was called a scab when I checked in at the standby desk for a DUTY pax flight to HBA. The tart (grrr...) was trying to get subload staff on by off loading me... That is just and example of my point.
I get this vibe that people (not just djembe56) think that VQ crew are scabs.... Why? I, like many Impulse staff, started when Impulse was Impulse. In 2000 when I started I did not know that QF was going to take over VQ! How can I then be a scab!? If it wasn't for the lesser money I can tell you where I would rather be! Flying suits SYD-MEL inside a plane with a cockatoo plastered all over it!
Now Southern are going, and the 1900s too for that matter and it is all F@@cked up! And that is bad... Instead of butting heads how about everyone just being matue about it and work with what they have and do what they are told to do. We are all paid to do what we are told. VQ staff do not call the shots as is some peoples beliefs.
Thank you Loco Smoke, Mr Abnormal and Spinout for your mature posts. You have reaffirmed my belief that not everyone on this forum is self obsessed and narrow minded! (That was not directed at anyone in particular - just a GENERAL comment!)
ANY person with a good attitude has NOTHING to worry about in my opinion...
What was the point of your last post? Are you agreeing that there is a difference in culture (ie. attitude) between Impulse and Southern crews? Your remarks highlight the fact that - yes there is.
What you said seemed really catty... (please correct me if I am wrong). If you did not mean to be like that then I apologise. From my own experience as a FA I have been victim of this culture difference myself. Both with the 'real' (as you call it) QF regionals and mainline itself. (By mainline I mean CSAs/gate staff in SYD and OOL. All the mainline FAs I bump into are great!). I was called a scab when I checked in at the standby desk for a DUTY pax flight to HBA. The tart (grrr...) was trying to get subload staff on by off loading me... That is just and example of my point.
I get this vibe that people (not just djembe56) think that VQ crew are scabs.... Why? I, like many Impulse staff, started when Impulse was Impulse. In 2000 when I started I did not know that QF was going to take over VQ! How can I then be a scab!? If it wasn't for the lesser money I can tell you where I would rather be! Flying suits SYD-MEL inside a plane with a cockatoo plastered all over it!
Now Southern are going, and the 1900s too for that matter and it is all F@@cked up! And that is bad... Instead of butting heads how about everyone just being matue about it and work with what they have and do what they are told to do. We are all paid to do what we are told. VQ staff do not call the shots as is some peoples beliefs.
Thank you Loco Smoke, Mr Abnormal and Spinout for your mature posts. You have reaffirmed my belief that not everyone on this forum is self obsessed and narrow minded! (That was not directed at anyone in particular - just a GENERAL comment!)
ANY person with a good attitude has NOTHING to worry about in my opinion...
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Ditzyboy
Scab - a person who refuses to strike or join a trade union, or who tries to break a strike by working. Not what I said and not what I meant.
As for cultural differences - Mr Abnormal said there were cultural differences, not me. I was just trying to figure out what he meant.
Must have hit a nerve.....
Scab - a person who refuses to strike or join a trade union, or who tries to break a strike by working. Not what I said and not what I meant.
As for cultural differences - Mr Abnormal said there were cultural differences, not me. I was just trying to figure out what he meant.
Must have hit a nerve.....
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Djembe56....
Thanks for your reply - that was quick!
No, no nerves damaged - just observations of mine. I am a FA so fretting is not one of my traits :-)
I just don't understand what all the negativity is about. All these pilots (and FAs- in Southern's case) have had this big pile of poo dumped on them. Work with it! Do what you can! Help those/others in this predicament....
Negativity has never got anyone anywhere. That was the point I was trying to make (again just a general point).
Thanks for your reply - that was quick!
No, no nerves damaged - just observations of mine. I am a FA so fretting is not one of my traits :-)
I just don't understand what all the negativity is about. All these pilots (and FAs- in Southern's case) have had this big pile of poo dumped on them. Work with it! Do what you can! Help those/others in this predicament....
Negativity has never got anyone anywhere. That was the point I was trying to make (again just a general point).
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djembe56,
I have re read my previous post and in all fairness to the Southern guys (of which a couple are friends), I could have explained my point better.
It is my belief that all pilots are the same, just a crosssection of what was available at the time. Most are enhanced / corrupted by the airline experience but pretty much have the same abilities.
I therefore do not think any more or less of any other pilot group. By cultural differences I was speaking in reference to Qantas' perception of Impulse and Southern. By demanding placement on the 717, some (small group I would guess) pilots would have displayed a millitant tone that Qantas didnt want to see infect the Impulse group in light of more 717s. It is this small group that has probably distroyed all chances of integration for the rest of the group.
As far as fearing the CASA element, well I dont know alot about that, just rumour. But from what I hear CASA discovered alot higher general experience level ( thanks to the direct entry Captains) then expected within Impulse and discarded the event as sour grapes. Did the individual(s) really think that CASA wasn't keeping a close watch on us anyway? One thing I can say is that if a fellow Impulse pilot did the same thing to Southern I would be very disgusted with that individual. I realise that the Southern guys are feeling discarded and are understandable upset, but this lashing out at a group that has no control over the situation is ugly.
As was said earlier, I hope the good Southern guys do come onto the 717 as thier experience is something that will be needed if the current expansion continues. It has to be at the bottom of our list though.
I have re read my previous post and in all fairness to the Southern guys (of which a couple are friends), I could have explained my point better.
It is my belief that all pilots are the same, just a crosssection of what was available at the time. Most are enhanced / corrupted by the airline experience but pretty much have the same abilities.
I therefore do not think any more or less of any other pilot group. By cultural differences I was speaking in reference to Qantas' perception of Impulse and Southern. By demanding placement on the 717, some (small group I would guess) pilots would have displayed a millitant tone that Qantas didnt want to see infect the Impulse group in light of more 717s. It is this small group that has probably distroyed all chances of integration for the rest of the group.
As far as fearing the CASA element, well I dont know alot about that, just rumour. But from what I hear CASA discovered alot higher general experience level ( thanks to the direct entry Captains) then expected within Impulse and discarded the event as sour grapes. Did the individual(s) really think that CASA wasn't keeping a close watch on us anyway? One thing I can say is that if a fellow Impulse pilot did the same thing to Southern I would be very disgusted with that individual. I realise that the Southern guys are feeling discarded and are understandable upset, but this lashing out at a group that has no control over the situation is ugly.
As was said earlier, I hope the good Southern guys do come onto the 717 as thier experience is something that will be needed if the current expansion continues. It has to be at the bottom of our list though.