award wages
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award wages
what is the correct award wage rate for pilots? and is there any legal requirement to pay at that rate (if it even exists)? or do operators just pay whatever they feel like because they know their pilots don't have enough job security to complain? the reason i ask is because i know instructors who get paid $15-$20 a flying hour and as all instructors know each instructional hour requires as much time in briefings and other preflight prep so at the end of the day when compared to duty times they're earning MacDonald's wages.
Yeas, there is an award for pilots (quite a few in fact.)
The one you are interested in is the Pilots’ (General Aviation) Award 1998.
Yes, it is legally enforceable. Should you have been underpaid for some years (and you have evidence) you can sue for back pay, and you will win.
Most pilot's swallow the guff about having their career ruined if they refuse to accept under award payments, or talk about court proceedings. In truth, operators that are cronic underpayers are disliked by honest operators as much as by honest pilots.
I have worked as an instructor, charter pilot, Bank run pilot, freight pilot and airline pilot in my career and have never been paid a cent less than the relevent award.
Sometimes I had to argue with my boss in order to achieve that payment. It happens.
The one you are interested in is the Pilots’ (General Aviation) Award 1998.
Yes, it is legally enforceable. Should you have been underpaid for some years (and you have evidence) you can sue for back pay, and you will win.
Most pilot's swallow the guff about having their career ruined if they refuse to accept under award payments, or talk about court proceedings. In truth, operators that are cronic underpayers are disliked by honest operators as much as by honest pilots.
I have worked as an instructor, charter pilot, Bank run pilot, freight pilot and airline pilot in my career and have never been paid a cent less than the relevent award.
Sometimes I had to argue with my boss in order to achieve that payment. It happens.
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Checkboard,
You are correct in saying there is an award for General Aviation Pilots.
What you neglect to mention is that a company only has to comply with an award if that company is a signatory to that award. And believe you me, the amount of companies in General Aviation who are signatories, I could count on half a hand.
And when you start speaking about airlines, well they all negotiate there own Enterprise Bargaining Agreements, as these would be a far lot less restrictive than an award.
I never worked for free back in my formative years as a pilot in GA, but I can assure you, it was not a salary that saw me living like a king. I scraped and competed against a very competitive market of pilots, and came through with flying colours, and now earn a reasonable amount of money, flying jet aircraft.
To say you worked through your career earning nothing less than an award wage, indicates what a priveledged career path you have had, and I do envy that, but upon saying that, the manner in which you say it, is very naive advice to give budding pilots, considering the chances of working under an award in GA are buckley's and none.
You are correct in saying there is an award for General Aviation Pilots.
What you neglect to mention is that a company only has to comply with an award if that company is a signatory to that award. And believe you me, the amount of companies in General Aviation who are signatories, I could count on half a hand.
And when you start speaking about airlines, well they all negotiate there own Enterprise Bargaining Agreements, as these would be a far lot less restrictive than an award.
I never worked for free back in my formative years as a pilot in GA, but I can assure you, it was not a salary that saw me living like a king. I scraped and competed against a very competitive market of pilots, and came through with flying colours, and now earn a reasonable amount of money, flying jet aircraft.
To say you worked through your career earning nothing less than an award wage, indicates what a priveledged career path you have had, and I do envy that, but upon saying that, the manner in which you say it, is very naive advice to give budding pilots, considering the chances of working under an award in GA are buckley's and none.
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FC
My understanding is that if an operator wishes to be bound by a particular award, then they become a signitory.
If the operator chooses no award, then the industrial relations court, can and will dertermine the most appropriate award for each employee group.
Therefore, it is not a matter of an operator not being a signitory, and avoiding any obligations for pay and conditions.
P.S. Which award is the new Ansett, and its regionals working under ??
My understanding is that if an operator wishes to be bound by a particular award, then they become a signitory.
If the operator chooses no award, then the industrial relations court, can and will dertermine the most appropriate award for each employee group.
Therefore, it is not a matter of an operator not being a signitory, and avoiding any obligations for pay and conditions.
P.S. Which award is the new Ansett, and its regionals working under ??
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Go to http://www.osiris.gov.au and have a look at the GA award. You will find that the award is about 30 pages long and the list of respondents is about 40 pages. Most companies are listed there and if not the AFAP will rope them in on the next change.
As to being paid the correct amount even when the company is a respondent to the award is a different matter as we all know.
As to being paid the correct amount even when the company is a respondent to the award is a different matter as we all know.
Trouble with operators who don't pay award is they are likely to skimp in other areas as well,like workers comp. , superannation,allowances ,maintenance ,training etc.
I can think of no good operator who doesn't pay at least award.Problem is they can be few and far between and if you aren't lucky enough to score a job with one you are in a like it or lump it situation with one of the lesser operators. Welcome to the world of GA !
Some pilot's are lucky enough to earn award all the way through ,but are you going to turn down your first job over wages ?Particularly with the number of unemployed pilots at the moment, and after having laid out $30 000+ on a CPL ,I think not.
I can think of no good operator who doesn't pay at least award.Problem is they can be few and far between and if you aren't lucky enough to score a job with one you are in a like it or lump it situation with one of the lesser operators. Welcome to the world of GA !
Some pilot's are lucky enough to earn award all the way through ,but are you going to turn down your first job over wages ?Particularly with the number of unemployed pilots at the moment, and after having laid out $30 000+ on a CPL ,I think not.
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Awards are argued out in the Industrial Relations Commission between the employer and employee representatives. The parties can agree on an amount or the commission can impose an amount. It becomes a minimum for payment.
Virtually every pilot, with the ink still wet on his / her CPL, is willing to 'break into' employment by prostituting themselfs for peanuts. A little while later when they are 'in the industry' and mum and dad don't feed them anymore, they want 'proper' wages. They are then anoyed when others undercut them to get in. Oh such short memories.
The only way we will ever get decent wages will be when NO ONE is willing to work for less from the beginning. I am now paying wages and I'm paying award wages. Some of my competitors pay 1/2 and some instructors work for free. Is that a level playing field? The employer is 'using' the pilot and the pilot is 'using' the employer. And eventually we all go down the gurgler.
Wake up, don't work for under the award.
Virtually every pilot, with the ink still wet on his / her CPL, is willing to 'break into' employment by prostituting themselfs for peanuts. A little while later when they are 'in the industry' and mum and dad don't feed them anymore, they want 'proper' wages. They are then anoyed when others undercut them to get in. Oh such short memories.
The only way we will ever get decent wages will be when NO ONE is willing to work for less from the beginning. I am now paying wages and I'm paying award wages. Some of my competitors pay 1/2 and some instructors work for free. Is that a level playing field? The employer is 'using' the pilot and the pilot is 'using' the employer. And eventually we all go down the gurgler.
Wake up, don't work for under the award.
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Faar_Canal and everyone else:
Just to clarify, at the top of the award document there is a section which defines all those entities upon whom the award is binding. This list includes any organisation who employs AFAP members, when dealing with those members (if they have non-member pilots, then thats their business), be they signatories or not. BTW the list of signatories is pretty comprehensive and contains a few surprise entries, its major downfall is that it's now getting a bit dated, with many of the listed organisations no longer existing, and vice-versa.
Just to clarify, at the top of the award document there is a section which defines all those entities upon whom the award is binding. This list includes any organisation who employs AFAP members, when dealing with those members (if they have non-member pilots, then thats their business), be they signatories or not. BTW the list of signatories is pretty comprehensive and contains a few surprise entries, its major downfall is that it's now getting a bit dated, with many of the listed organisations no longer existing, and vice-versa.
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jetage .. please for the benefit of all other 'sue' them ASAP. Every single person in Australia is covered by an award of some sort, there is no such thing as being 'black balled' etc etc for being up front and sincere.
Your entitled to your lot and so go get it.
Your entitled to your lot and so go get it.
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Know a chap who took his employer ( a non signatorie ) to court, via the AFAP, and won easily. It did however make it a little difficult to get a job in his hometown ( 2 organisations knocked him back using the excuse " nothing against you, but we don't want any trouble " this inspite of the fact that the ex employer was a renowned shonk ), at the end of the day remember, it is a very small industry.
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I knew a bloke who knew a bloke who worked for a bloke 'up north'. This bloke was a signatory to the award and paid 'award wages'. When you look at the award it was in fact correct to say he paid the going award wage, but this was all he paid! No one was paid any of the other associated benefits that are part of the award, particularly for living in a remote area working 6 days a week with most starts around 4:30 am. Was this bloke being fairdinkum in honouring the award agreement. This bloke that the bloke knew thought not and asked for his due remuneration according to the said award, he was promptly told that the award wage was paid and that the rest of the award was rubbish and if he had to pay it then no one would have a job as he would go broke. The bloke that had asked for the rest of the award was told a couple of weeks later that his services would no longer be required as he was not 'suitable' for the position he held. As he couldn't afford to stay and was hopeful of a better offer this bloke moved on. In subsequent conversations it was revealed that the bloke was 'got rid of' because he had a copy of the award and was seen to be a trouble maker. The rest of the blokes shut their mouths, got their hours and moved on. GA, you gotta love it!!
Nunc est bibendum
You would think then that every former GA jock who got into an Airline should be going their former employers for back pay!!!
I mean, if the precedent is there, why not go it?
I mean, if the precedent is there, why not go it?
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The company that you work for must be respondent to the Award before you can claim any entitlements available within the Award.
Don't worry if your company is not listed in the schedule of respondents because more than likely the organisation you are working for is a new business born from one that has gone broke. In this instance there is a transmission of business and the new business is still covered by the previous businesses respondency. The same applies if your company has been bought or sold.
Remember that you can claim underpayment of wages for a period of six years immediately preceding todays date. I.e. as at 28/11/01 you can claim back to 28/11/95. So if you are worried about not being able to get another job, wait until you have one and then go them for the rent.
Underpayment of wages claims in the Federal jurisdiction are handled throught the Magistrates Court in each respective state as Small Claims Court (provided its for less than $5,000) and the costs are therefore minimal.
If you want some more info let me know.
Don't worry if your company is not listed in the schedule of respondents because more than likely the organisation you are working for is a new business born from one that has gone broke. In this instance there is a transmission of business and the new business is still covered by the previous businesses respondency. The same applies if your company has been bought or sold.
Remember that you can claim underpayment of wages for a period of six years immediately preceding todays date. I.e. as at 28/11/01 you can claim back to 28/11/95. So if you are worried about not being able to get another job, wait until you have one and then go them for the rent.
Underpayment of wages claims in the Federal jurisdiction are handled throught the Magistrates Court in each respective state as Small Claims Court (provided its for less than $5,000) and the costs are therefore minimal.
If you want some more info let me know.
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All companies in Australia that do not havework place agreements in place are de facto respondent to the appropriate award for the class of work undertaken by any employee.All employees are covered by award.
For PROPER advice ring 1300 655 266 Department of Productivity and Workplace Relations or www.wagenet.gov.au
For PROPER advice ring 1300 655 266 Department of Productivity and Workplace Relations or www.wagenet.gov.au
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Sorry T but that is just not correct.
If the company is not respondent by virtue of being named within the Award or as a result of transmission of business, the company is not covered by the Award and the employees of the company are not entitled to the benefits within the Award.
In some cases there may be a State Award that picks up the slack but there are no State Awards that cover pilots in Qld.
Therefore, any pilot who works for a company who is not respondent to the Federal Award in Queensland is AWARD FREE.
This means that they are only entitled to the minimum conditions provided within the Industrial Relations Act 1999 and the minimum wage which is currently $417 odd dollars.
By the way the Federal department is called the Department of Employment, Workplace Relations and Small Business.
So, if you cannot find your companys name on the respondancy list call the AFAP and get them onto it.
If the company is not respondent by virtue of being named within the Award or as a result of transmission of business, the company is not covered by the Award and the employees of the company are not entitled to the benefits within the Award.
In some cases there may be a State Award that picks up the slack but there are no State Awards that cover pilots in Qld.
Therefore, any pilot who works for a company who is not respondent to the Federal Award in Queensland is AWARD FREE.
This means that they are only entitled to the minimum conditions provided within the Industrial Relations Act 1999 and the minimum wage which is currently $417 odd dollars.
By the way the Federal department is called the Department of Employment, Workplace Relations and Small Business.
So, if you cannot find your companys name on the respondancy list call the AFAP and get them onto it.
