Time to ditch that flying career?
Steepclimb,
Are you still looking into the canal?
Perhaps some proffessional advice/help might be appropriate, seriously. Love of flying is a wonderfull thing to have found in life but there is still more to it.
Are you still looking into the canal?
Perhaps some proffessional advice/help might be appropriate, seriously. Love of flying is a wonderfull thing to have found in life but there is still more to it.
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Anything worthwhile usually involves a lot of hardship and difficulty, so I wouldn't give it away just because at some point I've had doubts. A really successful career probably relies a lot more on grit, determination and self discipline, than pure love. Bit like a relationship, really....
And some of the best pilots I've ever known weren't afraid of a life without aviation.
And some of the best pilots I've ever known weren't afraid of a life without aviation.
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White collar jobs aren't all that flash either.
Regardless of what you're doing, the routine wears thin after a few years. Sure the bucks might be good and you might have a flash car, but do you sell your life & soul for the dollar ?
Joining the rat race down the freeway every morning and afternoon, getting to the same office, to do the same routine day in day out. Anything from 10 to 18 hour days - 5 on 2 off, sometimes 6/1. That's the reality of any white collar job that pays anything half decent these days. If you boil it down to an hourly rate the fact is your average mid to upper office jock really isn't on that good a wicket.
A mate of mine is 33 and had a successful non av career he'd built up over the years, pulling somewhere between 80 - 100k. He's chucked it in to get his CPL. Everyone is saying he's a crazy ****** but he says he's got an itch he has to scratch. I say good luck to him for having the balls.
Regardless of what you're doing, the routine wears thin after a few years. Sure the bucks might be good and you might have a flash car, but do you sell your life & soul for the dollar ?
Joining the rat race down the freeway every morning and afternoon, getting to the same office, to do the same routine day in day out. Anything from 10 to 18 hour days - 5 on 2 off, sometimes 6/1. That's the reality of any white collar job that pays anything half decent these days. If you boil it down to an hourly rate the fact is your average mid to upper office jock really isn't on that good a wicket.
A mate of mine is 33 and had a successful non av career he'd built up over the years, pulling somewhere between 80 - 100k. He's chucked it in to get his CPL. Everyone is saying he's a crazy ****** but he says he's got an itch he has to scratch. I say good luck to him for having the balls.
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There's a good job out there for everyone if they stick it out, and when you get it you'll realise why you put up with the short term hardships.
I don't understand why anyone would want to do anything else!!!!
I don't understand why anyone would want to do anything else!!!!
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Just looking for the moment, Mud skipper. I know the therapy I need, it involves leaving the ground behind at regular intervals. The fact that I came to that point at all amazes me. You have to be singleminded when it comes to flying. I didn't have a safety net.
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After losing my Job in the big crash of Sep 14th, I considered a change of career. As flying runs thick in my blood I decided to hang on and work towards getting another job. One thing you must ask yourself; Do you enjoy going to work each day to fly?. If the answer is yes, need I say more. 
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Chieftans hey???
QUIT NOW, NEVER LOOK BACK
and send me the name and phone number of your old boss.....
Seriously, I'm in a similar situation and have decided to study part time via distance education. Although it will take a long time to complete, I'll still have a degree and experience in another line of work with a great many new options and career path variations available to me. (Maybe choose something that will combine the two?)
QUIT NOW, NEVER LOOK BACK
and send me the name and phone number of your old boss.....
Seriously, I'm in a similar situation and have decided to study part time via distance education. Although it will take a long time to complete, I'll still have a degree and experience in another line of work with a great many new options and career path variations available to me. (Maybe choose something that will combine the two?)
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I say, there is no way aviation is going to control my life in that way, I also earn several times that of a ME IFR pilot doing other things, when that sh!ts me, I fly for a while, untill that enevitably Sh!ts me.
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2 years ago, I threw in my $90k a year job to go flying. I have a wife and 3 kids to feed. I targetted 2 employers, the 1st to gain hours, and the 2nd was to be the long term employer.
I now work for a regional airline. My job now gives me imense satisfaction for only 35% of what I once earned. But Christ, I am happy.
If you have the right attitude, don't be a prat and hang around flight offices trying to snag the Chief Pilot every time he walks through the office, you have a good chance of making it.
By reading through many posts in pprune, most pilots aspire to be jet jockeys, and are NOT content til they get there. Consequently they are never happy in any job they have on the way through smaller companies.
I'd love to fly a jet, but it is not gunna happen for me. I know that. I fly turbo prop, probably get command in 18 months, earning around $50k (a far cry for the majors) but it's enough to live off of, and i get to see my family every night, and I don't have to live out ot a suit case, or sleep in motel beds where gallons of others bodily fluids still roam <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Life is what you make of it. Try to be happy where you are, and plan your next move. I will heppen !!
I now work for a regional airline. My job now gives me imense satisfaction for only 35% of what I once earned. But Christ, I am happy.
If you have the right attitude, don't be a prat and hang around flight offices trying to snag the Chief Pilot every time he walks through the office, you have a good chance of making it.
By reading through many posts in pprune, most pilots aspire to be jet jockeys, and are NOT content til they get there. Consequently they are never happy in any job they have on the way through smaller companies.
I'd love to fly a jet, but it is not gunna happen for me. I know that. I fly turbo prop, probably get command in 18 months, earning around $50k (a far cry for the majors) but it's enough to live off of, and i get to see my family every night, and I don't have to live out ot a suit case, or sleep in motel beds where gallons of others bodily fluids still roam <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Life is what you make of it. Try to be happy where you are, and plan your next move. I will heppen !!
Flying Chieftains? There would be a thousand commercial pilots out there who would envy you.
I once went from flying left seat in a beautiful 737 around the South Pacific, to driving a Silvertop taxi, to a job in an office changing light bulbs and running errands for Yellow Pages. That was following retrenchment during a Night of the Long Knives.
Outside my office window on the 12th floor somewhere on St Kilda Road, I could see the Cessnas tootling along between Moorabin and places east over Port Philip Bay. How I envied those student pilots. After two years of indecision I made the move. Should I climb the corporate ladder to the 20th floor and become in charge of the light bulb changers ($250 a week before tax and unlimited free light bulbs) - or throw a secure job in and go back to instructing.
I did the latter and flew clapped Cessnas. Six months later a 737 job came up and I never looked back. Like winning the lottery, getting a satisfying flying job is all a matter of luck and good contacts. Flying skills are nice, but good luck is better. There are a million out of work skilful pilots, but not too many lucky ones.
For what it's worth, my advice is stay on Chieftains and never stop trying to improve your skills. They give you great personal satisfaction and may save your skin one day.
People move on, jobs come and go, doors open and close in aviation. Sh*t happens too. But one day, you will get the job you want - just be patient and keep on trying. Persistence always pays off in the end...
[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: Centaurus ]</p>
I once went from flying left seat in a beautiful 737 around the South Pacific, to driving a Silvertop taxi, to a job in an office changing light bulbs and running errands for Yellow Pages. That was following retrenchment during a Night of the Long Knives.
Outside my office window on the 12th floor somewhere on St Kilda Road, I could see the Cessnas tootling along between Moorabin and places east over Port Philip Bay. How I envied those student pilots. After two years of indecision I made the move. Should I climb the corporate ladder to the 20th floor and become in charge of the light bulb changers ($250 a week before tax and unlimited free light bulbs) - or throw a secure job in and go back to instructing.
I did the latter and flew clapped Cessnas. Six months later a 737 job came up and I never looked back. Like winning the lottery, getting a satisfying flying job is all a matter of luck and good contacts. Flying skills are nice, but good luck is better. There are a million out of work skilful pilots, but not too many lucky ones.
For what it's worth, my advice is stay on Chieftains and never stop trying to improve your skills. They give you great personal satisfaction and may save your skin one day.
People move on, jobs come and go, doors open and close in aviation. Sh*t happens too. But one day, you will get the job you want - just be patient and keep on trying. Persistence always pays off in the end...
[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: Centaurus ]</p>
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well Infidel, why dont you let the rest of us in on how you managed to get to the regionals in 2 YEARS.
I threw in my job at the start of 2000, did my CPL and MECIR, and in about 3 months I will be able to celebrate 1 year looking for my first job. Flying a total of 3 hours in one year.
My ultimate goal is to fly for the regionals too, but I'm stuffed if I know how I'm ever going to get there when I can't even get a meatbombing job.
I threw in my job at the start of 2000, did my CPL and MECIR, and in about 3 months I will be able to celebrate 1 year looking for my first job. Flying a total of 3 hours in one year.
My ultimate goal is to fly for the regionals too, but I'm stuffed if I know how I'm ever going to get there when I can't even get a meatbombing job.
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Radar, unless you have already tried, go BUSH young man (person?). Go to the crappiest, worst rathole you can find where there are aeroplanes. Sit it out, in a tent if necessary, and the flying work will eventually come your way. Unless you have a relative already in the airlines, the next best way in to the regionals is to accumulate hours and be current. They don't like spending too much on training, so currency is where it's at, even if it's on singles, tho' of course you would have to take any twin job on offer in preference. Nothing wrong with Chieftains either, and still a few of those out in aforementioned ratholes, I'm sure.
Anyway good luck
Anyway good luck
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my SHORT AND SWEET ANSWER
When you decide to stay or go, write down your reasons for staying and going, laminate it , date it and put with your personal records.
If in a year or so your life turns to sh#t and you regret your life decision, then you can look back on the reasons for leaving flying ( or whatever it is in life) and say to yourself that you made the decision based on your feelings at the time.
WE ALL HAVE REGRETS, BUT NO ONE CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE.
U 2
When you decide to stay or go, write down your reasons for staying and going, laminate it , date it and put with your personal records.
If in a year or so your life turns to sh#t and you regret your life decision, then you can look back on the reasons for leaving flying ( or whatever it is in life) and say to yourself that you made the decision based on your feelings at the time.
WE ALL HAVE REGRETS, BUT NO ONE CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE.
U 2
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Sh!t I dont know, Im fed up with airline flying but Id give anything to fly Spits or Stearmans for the same pay. As that is highly improbable Im stuck doin this until I can afford to put my feet up and become a bloodey useless beach bum (which is my next major project!).
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Your question was - "what would you do ?"
Well, I'd devise sufficiency tests for my personal rewards, with a criteria that made sense to me, whoever I am.
So, whether you are distracted by the non flying money or just don't want anything else in flying other than an airline job; maybe answer a few questions:
Have you ever said or heard someone say about what they are doing at the time: "I/(we) am going to live this way forever - this is all I ever want to do and I want nothing to change" ?
You are obviously not in that situation but can you imagine how lucky someone would be to be able to say that about the way they live.
So, when could you say that above, about yourself: ?
In an airline job and sitting at the head of the 5* hotel resturant table with all your crew and a big feed ?
Blowing away Chinese fighters 200' AGL over Bejing in an F22 (yeah if you were a Spam...) ?
Doing fiveteen hour days working in IT or real estate making half a mil a year, living over the beach with four cars in the garage and tarts everywhere?
Being a Bhuddist monk ?
Nothing that really comes to mind ?
If its the last choice above, and if the concept in the first question is alien to you, then maybe all you were ever going to do anyway was amble along and just have a good time and pay the bills, and in the end be happy doing just that. A lot of people are, and good luck to them.
Have you ever said, or heard someone say "I am the best at what I do; I strive to constantly demonstrate that; and everyone knows that I am (well, without too much conceit here.. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> "
If that does not appeal to you, or also is alien to you, then perhaps you don't really want anything more than a good time. Again, a lot of people do and good luck to them.
Since you aren't happy in GA, perhaps there is something else for you, but would you feel the same about that also in a few years time ?
Really, what was it about Qantas - if the QF knockback has demotivated you then ask yourself is that because you thought that your personal identity would be incomplete forever unless you are wearing a Qantas uniform, and if so, why/when ? Ie., were you thinking about this stuff before QF said NO, or was their knockback the trigger for this ?
Are you trying to do something or be something ? For either, GA does not seem to be the answer. Would Cathay do instead of QF ?
I think what Chimbu Chuck might have been saying was - if you are thinking about this stuff in the air, then stop, because your mind is not on the job.
The Pilot Psychology is based on being hell-bent on escape from the surface of the Earth; the key word being "escape", with "why, fear of....what.. (question mark)" in small italics somewhere nearby.
Do you really want to escape, or is it OK or maybe even appealing at times down there ?
Regards Rene (cough)
<a href="http://www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au" target="_blank">www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au</a>
[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Rene Rivkin ]</p>
Well, I'd devise sufficiency tests for my personal rewards, with a criteria that made sense to me, whoever I am.
So, whether you are distracted by the non flying money or just don't want anything else in flying other than an airline job; maybe answer a few questions:
Have you ever said or heard someone say about what they are doing at the time: "I/(we) am going to live this way forever - this is all I ever want to do and I want nothing to change" ?
You are obviously not in that situation but can you imagine how lucky someone would be to be able to say that about the way they live.
So, when could you say that above, about yourself: ?
In an airline job and sitting at the head of the 5* hotel resturant table with all your crew and a big feed ?
Blowing away Chinese fighters 200' AGL over Bejing in an F22 (yeah if you were a Spam...) ?
Doing fiveteen hour days working in IT or real estate making half a mil a year, living over the beach with four cars in the garage and tarts everywhere?
Being a Bhuddist monk ?
Nothing that really comes to mind ?
If its the last choice above, and if the concept in the first question is alien to you, then maybe all you were ever going to do anyway was amble along and just have a good time and pay the bills, and in the end be happy doing just that. A lot of people are, and good luck to them.
Have you ever said, or heard someone say "I am the best at what I do; I strive to constantly demonstrate that; and everyone knows that I am (well, without too much conceit here.. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> "
If that does not appeal to you, or also is alien to you, then perhaps you don't really want anything more than a good time. Again, a lot of people do and good luck to them.
Since you aren't happy in GA, perhaps there is something else for you, but would you feel the same about that also in a few years time ?
Really, what was it about Qantas - if the QF knockback has demotivated you then ask yourself is that because you thought that your personal identity would be incomplete forever unless you are wearing a Qantas uniform, and if so, why/when ? Ie., were you thinking about this stuff before QF said NO, or was their knockback the trigger for this ?
Are you trying to do something or be something ? For either, GA does not seem to be the answer. Would Cathay do instead of QF ?
I think what Chimbu Chuck might have been saying was - if you are thinking about this stuff in the air, then stop, because your mind is not on the job.
The Pilot Psychology is based on being hell-bent on escape from the surface of the Earth; the key word being "escape", with "why, fear of....what.. (question mark)" in small italics somewhere nearby.
Do you really want to escape, or is it OK or maybe even appealing at times down there ?
Regards Rene (cough)
<a href="http://www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au" target="_blank">www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au</a>
[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Rene Rivkin ]</p>
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Rene,
That is the best analysis of the situation I have ever seen and although I had no intention of reviewing my decision, your thoughts made me do so.
My sincere thanks
Regards,
HdG.
That is the best analysis of the situation I have ever seen and although I had no intention of reviewing my decision, your thoughts made me do so.
My sincere thanks
Regards,
HdG.
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It all comes down to backing yourself in WHATEVER you choose to do. If you don't believe that you can do the job give it up. He who hesitates is lost. Whatever it is remember that you have to retire someday and $35k for 30 years equals not much fun in retirement.