Pay cuts for Ansett Pilots ?
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KaptinM & LAME: Why don't the pair of you get together and share a LogonID? As soon as the AN question comes up, if either of you isn't the author, your arguments are predictable and repetitively boring. A common ID would halve the time we need to read your posts.
LAME: In spite of your assertions to the contrary, ALL you ever come up with is AN bashing, usually with reference to Compass Mks 1 & 2, as if AN was the root of all their problems, ignoring under-capitalisation and rank bad management.
KaptinM: If your life is so remunerative and pleasant in wherever you now work and live, why is AN such a thorn in your side? The invective you pour on the "heroes" who apparently have "your" job in Aus. tends to give the lie to your brave front.
Please, the pair of you, GET A LIFE and leave 1989 where it is, IN THE PAST.
Regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
LAME: In spite of your assertions to the contrary, ALL you ever come up with is AN bashing, usually with reference to Compass Mks 1 & 2, as if AN was the root of all their problems, ignoring under-capitalisation and rank bad management.
KaptinM: If your life is so remunerative and pleasant in wherever you now work and live, why is AN such a thorn in your side? The invective you pour on the "heroes" who apparently have "your" job in Aus. tends to give the lie to your brave front.
Please, the pair of you, GET A LIFE and leave 1989 where it is, IN THE PAST.
Regards to all,
TheNightOwl.
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Night Owl,
I think you will find that the subject of 1989 will not pass on until all the protagonists (the losing protagonists that is) have all passed on.
Only then will the topic pass from living memory into recorded history.
In the event Ansett does fail, well I would suggest you could be in for an absolute torrent of comment from '89ers
I think you will find that the subject of 1989 will not pass on until all the protagonists (the losing protagonists that is) have all passed on.
Only then will the topic pass from living memory into recorded history.
In the event Ansett does fail, well I would suggest you could be in for an absolute torrent of comment from '89ers
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Pay cuts...hmmm
I'm not sure if that's the answer in actual fact or the employee group would have been approached some time ago [it was part of the EB]. The equation will need some fresh batteries in my calculator to work out an immediate solution.
I do hope though that the high level of sick leave that is currently rampant in all departments reduces as this costs the company far more than pilot wages.
If receivership was to occur I understand that the company would continue to trade and be run by an appointed administrator while a buyer was sought.
As other posts have said - things cannot be that bad if they can raise a reported $250M for an airline that made a reported $500000!!
I wonder what the spin doctors have in store for us next.
I'm not sure if that's the answer in actual fact or the employee group would have been approached some time ago [it was part of the EB]. The equation will need some fresh batteries in my calculator to work out an immediate solution.
I do hope though that the high level of sick leave that is currently rampant in all departments reduces as this costs the company far more than pilot wages.
If receivership was to occur I understand that the company would continue to trade and be run by an appointed administrator while a buyer was sought.
As other posts have said - things cannot be that bad if they can raise a reported $250M for an airline that made a reported $500000!!
I wonder what the spin doctors have in store for us next.
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TheNightOwl,
I do not know what it is with some of you, I have to be so careful what I say at all, no matter how true it is someone always says anti Ansett if you even mention Ansett.
I am NOT anything to do with 89, and as I explained before have only met Kaptin M once in my life, very recently.
I was with Compass 1 and 2 for all the time we operated, and yes Ansett should have gone in 1991 instead of Compass.
In spite of all this I have still been very fair in my posts I think, and as I have explained before I am a Global Rewards Member with over 250000 points I would rather not lose, however if you are typical of the people now at Ansett, you have finally convinced me, maybe it is best if they shut down tomorrow...........
"lame"
I do not know what it is with some of you, I have to be so careful what I say at all, no matter how true it is someone always says anti Ansett if you even mention Ansett.
I am NOT anything to do with 89, and as I explained before have only met Kaptin M once in my life, very recently.
I was with Compass 1 and 2 for all the time we operated, and yes Ansett should have gone in 1991 instead of Compass.
In spite of all this I have still been very fair in my posts I think, and as I have explained before I am a Global Rewards Member with over 250000 points I would rather not lose, however if you are typical of the people now at Ansett, you have finally convinced me, maybe it is best if they shut down tomorrow...........
"lame"
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One thing is for sure,
No matter which way this current crisis goes - the days of highly paid airline pilots in Oz will be over.
QF drivers will be the only glaringly obvious targets remaining on the dollar scope and will eventually fall.
Kaptin M - you are a sad fellah.
No matter which way this current crisis goes - the days of highly paid airline pilots in Oz will be over.
QF drivers will be the only glaringly obvious targets remaining on the dollar scope and will eventually fall.
Kaptin M - you are a sad fellah.
Hang on here Wayne Cambell. Are your really sure that the pilot salaries are the one and ONLY factor that has caused Ansett this crisis?? Nothing to do with management by bean counters, who obviusly couldn't organise a **** -up in a brewery??EH!
Edited so to that I can enter ***'s by myself!! (without the help off the auto-police)
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Home Brew ]
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Home Brew ]
Edited so to that I can enter ***'s by myself!! (without the help off the auto-police)
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Home Brew ]
[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Home Brew ]
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Home Brew,
No, not at all.
Pilot salaries are only a small part of an airlines operating cost. But together with all the staff on the books, add up to being the third highest cost incurred by an airline.
The pilots will be dragged along with the other 15,000 or so employee's.
High pay packets in the Aus - Pacific region are now very much in the minority and the latest events will place enormous pressure on QF pilots and give QF a huge lever with which to bargain.
Part of the price you pay to live in a great place.
No, not at all.
Pilot salaries are only a small part of an airlines operating cost. But together with all the staff on the books, add up to being the third highest cost incurred by an airline.
The pilots will be dragged along with the other 15,000 or so employee's.
High pay packets in the Aus - Pacific region are now very much in the minority and the latest events will place enormous pressure on QF pilots and give QF a huge lever with which to bargain.
Part of the price you pay to live in a great place.
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I have read this thread with much interest. Being an outsider from the other side of the screen and in a place very close to the other side of the world from Aus. It has been very interesting keeping up with events from home.
The original post indicated that AN pilots and other employees should take pay cuts in line with a very similar situation to the Spanish Airline, Sabena. Maybe yes, as Interceptor pointed out it is better to earn 50% of something than 100% of nothing. It has seemed to save Sabena for the past 3 years.
If I were an Ansett employee though, I would be asking to see the salaries of the Managers and cutting them by 50% to start with. Essentially it is their incompetance that has put this airline in this situation.
What is happening in Ansett with regard to backlash at Management??? I would have them hung,drawn and quartered.!!!
The original post indicated that AN pilots and other employees should take pay cuts in line with a very similar situation to the Spanish Airline, Sabena. Maybe yes, as Interceptor pointed out it is better to earn 50% of something than 100% of nothing. It has seemed to save Sabena for the past 3 years.
If I were an Ansett employee though, I would be asking to see the salaries of the Managers and cutting them by 50% to start with. Essentially it is their incompetance that has put this airline in this situation.
What is happening in Ansett with regard to backlash at Management??? I would have them hung,drawn and quartered.!!!
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ProceduralVector,
If I were an Sabena employee though, I would be asking to see the airline returned to Belgium to start with. Essentially it is lack of geographical knowledge that has put this airline in this situation. Maybe thats what upset the pilots of Iberia...
If I were an Sabena employee though, I would be asking to see the airline returned to Belgium to start with. Essentially it is lack of geographical knowledge that has put this airline in this situation. Maybe thats what upset the pilots of Iberia...
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I have been in a company that went into receivership, and it is a terrible, tragic event for many many folks. I wish all the Ansett employees the best of luck in the near future and hope it all works out.
Kaptin M, your repetitive venom towards Ansett and the 89 events coupled with your comments in this thread, shows your shallow, petty true self. Shame Shame Shame.
Kaptin M, your repetitive venom towards Ansett and the 89 events coupled with your comments in this thread, shows your shallow, petty true self. Shame Shame Shame.
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What about a pay cut for all in return for shares (with a vesting period) and control over their own destiny?
UAL did similar and it worked (I still have the shares nowadays).
Good luck guys!
UAL did similar and it worked (I still have the shares nowadays).
Good luck guys!
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Mir3,
Love the way you twist everything.......
What I said was in spite of having those points to use up as a frequent flyer with Ansett, because of stupid, unprovoked and unwarranted attacks by you and some others, I hoped they would fold, THUS LOSING my points????? So if that is true, how do I care more about the points if I am prepared to lose them?????????
It was said in the heat of the moment after numerous stupid personal attacks from you, I do NOT really want that.
You are the weakest link, goodbye........
Best regards to ALL,
"lame"
Love the way you twist everything.......
What I said was in spite of having those points to use up as a frequent flyer with Ansett, because of stupid, unprovoked and unwarranted attacks by you and some others, I hoped they would fold, THUS LOSING my points????? So if that is true, how do I care more about the points if I am prepared to lose them?????????
It was said in the heat of the moment after numerous stupid personal attacks from you, I do NOT really want that.
You are the weakest link, goodbye........
Best regards to ALL,
"lame"
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Lame,I think the answer to your question is pretty obvious hence no real reply's.
If you are faced with only being able to take a percentage of your salary instead of none of it,you are going to take what you can OR walk.
Throughout the last few weeks in regard to AN we have been subject to MEDIA SPECULATION
and 99% have been sucked in.
Who can tell me what the ANZ boards plan is? When we all know what that is then we will have some facts to work with and not the bull**** from some "Jurno" that wouldn't know a 73 from an A320.
If you are faced with only being able to take a percentage of your salary instead of none of it,you are going to take what you can OR walk.
Throughout the last few weeks in regard to AN we have been subject to MEDIA SPECULATION
and 99% have been sucked in.
Who can tell me what the ANZ boards plan is? When we all know what that is then we will have some facts to work with and not the bull**** from some "Jurno" that wouldn't know a 73 from an A320.
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hughgoagogo,
It was a perfectly serious and sensible question, I thought anyway?
I have very sadly been through this twice (Compass 1 and 2). With them the employees actually offered to work for a time for FREE if it would save the Company, Airbus also offered for us to keep the A300s for $1 a month lease for a time, but sadly none of this helped of course.
I just wondered IF current employees of Ansett had considered accepting a lower salary for a while, not working for free as we offered, if it meant saving Ansett?
I am still wondering?????????
Best regards,
"lame"
It was a perfectly serious and sensible question, I thought anyway?
I have very sadly been through this twice (Compass 1 and 2). With them the employees actually offered to work for a time for FREE if it would save the Company, Airbus also offered for us to keep the A300s for $1 a month lease for a time, but sadly none of this helped of course.
I just wondered IF current employees of Ansett had considered accepting a lower salary for a while, not working for free as we offered, if it meant saving Ansett?
I am still wondering?????????
Best regards,
"lame"
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Lame, in reply to your original question, yes, we would be prepared to take a pay cut. Other colleagues also think that it would be better to be paid less and have a job rather than be unemployed. At this stage though, it looks likes things have gone to far. What really pisses us off is when the company goes and buys $100,000 cars for their execs. like they recently did. We're always asked to give more and more but rarely get a thankyou from upper management. Most of the loads always appear to be full (with minimal sub load passengers) and nobody seems to know why they are losing so much. It has nothing to do with pilot wages either as they are getting the pilots at around half price as against pre 1989 (and I'm not having a go at anyone, just stating the facts). Pilots wages represent around 2% of the value of a ticket. Sure, there probably are outdated work practices in some of the unionised areas like baggage handlers being paid $80,000 but that is around a sixty hour week.
Unfortunately, it looks like the real damage has been done by prior owners, prior management, the Air New Zealand's boards ego, the Keating government, the Howard government, the Foreign Investment Review Board and the worst offenders would have to be that useless, lazy, incompetent New Zealand government.
When Toomey came on board, he gave us all a ray of hope but it looks like the problem has gone too far.
My feeling is that Ansett will exist in some form or other, possibly under another name, in a more efficient form, basically starting from scratch. With due respect to Compass, this country cannot afford to lose any business, let alone one the size of Ansett. The economy would suffer too much. Sure someone would probably pick up the scraps but there would be too much tax revenue lost, unemployment benefits would sky rocket, tourism would suffer with a resultant loss of jobs, rural Australia would suffer, the banks would lose millions of dollars in loans to Ansett and mortgage defaults, other business's would collapse. All up, not a very good situation.
As an Ansett employee, the stress is unbelievable, I am losing sleep and it is not happy at home as we face the unknown.
Please, to all you pre 1989 guys (of which I am not one) do not sling off at this post as no doubt you all felt exactly as I do now back then.
Unfortunately, it looks like the real damage has been done by prior owners, prior management, the Air New Zealand's boards ego, the Keating government, the Howard government, the Foreign Investment Review Board and the worst offenders would have to be that useless, lazy, incompetent New Zealand government.
When Toomey came on board, he gave us all a ray of hope but it looks like the problem has gone too far.
My feeling is that Ansett will exist in some form or other, possibly under another name, in a more efficient form, basically starting from scratch. With due respect to Compass, this country cannot afford to lose any business, let alone one the size of Ansett. The economy would suffer too much. Sure someone would probably pick up the scraps but there would be too much tax revenue lost, unemployment benefits would sky rocket, tourism would suffer with a resultant loss of jobs, rural Australia would suffer, the banks would lose millions of dollars in loans to Ansett and mortgage defaults, other business's would collapse. All up, not a very good situation.
As an Ansett employee, the stress is unbelievable, I am losing sleep and it is not happy at home as we face the unknown.
Please, to all you pre 1989 guys (of which I am not one) do not sling off at this post as no doubt you all felt exactly as I do now back then.
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EPIRB,
Thank you.
That was all I was asking.
It was the same at Compass, NONE of the employees had anything at all to do the the problems we were facing, but still offered in that case to even work for FREE for a while if it would have helped.
Good luck to you all.
Best regards,
"lame"
PS, I don't think you meant me? But I am not an 89er......
Thank you.
That was all I was asking.
It was the same at Compass, NONE of the employees had anything at all to do the the problems we were facing, but still offered in that case to even work for FREE for a while if it would have helped.
Good luck to you all.
Best regards,
"lame"
PS, I don't think you meant me? But I am not an 89er......