Pilots' Strike Haunts Jobless (The Australian)
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Pilots' Strike Haunts Jobless (The Australian)
Thurs 7th March "The Australian". .<a href="http://www.newsdirectory.com/go/?f=&r=oc&u=www.theaustralian.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.newsdirectory.co m/go/?f=&r=oc&u=www.theaustralian.com.au</a>. .. .Pilots' strike haunts jobless. .By Luke McIlveen and Matthew Spencer . .March 07, 2002. .. .FORMER senior Ansett pilots believe a blacklist of strikebreakers dating back to the 1989 pilots' dispute has made them virtually unemployable in Australia.. .. .According to several senior former Ansett pilots interviewed by The Australian, the blacklist of 300 pilots drawn up after the strike 12 years ago still stands.. .. .The blacklist is a frequent subject of discussion on an internet chatroom for pilots called the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. . .. .In a recent discussion on the site, one unidentified pilot wrote to another: "Although these airlines are interviewing I don't think they want scab labour. So I guess you and your 300 buddies better buy a lawnmower or hope that Qantas comes to the rescue.". .. .Senior Ansett pilot Captain Geoff Lowe told The Australian the blacklist was well-known among pilots who worked through the dispute and was used by Virgin Blue to filter out potential recruits.. .. ."It's as much alive as it was in 1989 and 90," Mr Lowe said.. .. ."We lost all our friends. I have got people who are my neighbours and they have not spoken to me for more than 12 years.. .. ."We're not scabs, but the people who held out, resigned from their jobs and worked overseas after the strike . . . they're seen as the loyalists. Some of those people now run Virgin Blue's pilot recruitment.". .. .Virgin Blue chief pilot John Raby was second in charge of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots at the time of the pilots' strike and spent almost 10 years working overseas after the Hawke government ended the dispute. He could not be contacted yesterday.. .. .Virgin Blue commercial operations head David Huttner denied that the list existed, but confirmed no Ansett pilots who worked at that time would be employed because they would not fit into the company's preference for young staff. . .. .Mr Huttner said 24 Ansett pilots had been taken on by Virgin Blue since last September but none above the rank of flight officer.. .. ."We have a policy of not hiring direct-entry captains," he said.. .. ."We would never, ever hire somebody from outside over someone within who is an up-and-comer.. .. ."The suggestion that this is related to history is a bit of a leap. There is a history there but it runs across the whole industry.". .. .Mr Huttner said many of the pilots employed by Virgin Blue upheld the pilots' strike and were forced to work overseas when it was eventually broken in June 1990.. .. ."These guys spent years in the sticks or overseas because Ansett and Qantas didn't want to know about them. We offered them the chance to come home," he said.. .. ."All these other guys did not bother with us when we got started. Now they are standing there saying Virgin's blacklisted us.". .. .A spokesman for the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, Terry O'Connell, said he had never heard of the list.. . . . <small>[ 06 March 2002, 18:03: Message edited by: Wirraway ]</small>
Nunc est bibendum
Geez, I was 18 going on 19 when the dispute happened but even I know that there is a 'list'.. .. .Whilst that list may not be on file in the VB recruiting office, I bet they know where to find one.. .. .A little bit misleading of David to suggest there isn't 'a list' somewhere I would suggest.. .. .Besides, as Kap M and the others point out so well, why would they need a list when the memories are still so vivid. . .. .He didn't miss out on the opportunity to slip it to QF rather than the former TN "who didn't want them".. .. .Interesting!
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Interesting to hear 'David Hutter' admitting that Virgin Blue discriminate on the basis of age when employing ?. .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">
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The list referred to above appears to have been removed.. .. .Huttner is discriminating on age without a doubt:. .. ."Virgin Blue commercial operations head David Huttner denied that the list existed, but confirmed no Ansett pilots who worked at that time would be employed because they would not fit into the company's preference for young staff". .. .Some one in OZ should have a go at him legally.
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Funny, I can't find a list there. I have a letter on file from AN offering an interview (1991) for re-employment to previously employed pilots on the condition of having less than 3 years with the airline. The airlines of 89 didn't maintain a LIST or a GRUDGE... yeh right. Anyone with more than 3 years served, could whistle dixie.. .What goes around comes around.. .Hey strobes, QF don't employ direct entry captains either and their recruiting seems to be heavily biased to the younguns. Maybe someone should have a go at them too. Good Luck.. . . . <small>[ 06 March 2002, 22:47: Message edited by: Back Seat Driver ]</small>
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Think Alex must have taken it down. . .. .If anyone wants a copy just email any of your mates in Cathay,Emirates, Singas etc. No great need to have a list if you are an 89'er though. The names are burned in memory.
May I suggest that it is the "safety" issue (an unsafe work environment exists with the two opposing sides on the one flightdeck) that has precluded the former senior Ansett pilots from Vb employment. As the issue was identified by them, and used by them to preclude the '89ers from Ansett employment, they have only themselves to blame. It must be finally dawning on them that they are not the skygods they think they are. . .. .There are far more suitable candidates out there.. . . . <small>[ 06 March 2002, 23:05: Message edited by: Karunch ]</small>
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Yeah right, you "heroes" are certainly a case !. .. .I have a question.. .. .If Ansett was to miraculously rise from the ashes tomorrow and Virgin blue died as a result, how many Virgin Blue pilots would they employ ???. .. .Answer: zilch, numero zero, on your bikes you 89ers.. .. .Why: well in the words of Captain Dick Marmon in the IRC,. ."It would be downright dangerous to have AFAP pilots share the cockpits with the returned pilots". .. .Fact: Virgin Blue does not discriminate and has every right to employ who it considers are suitable professionals with decency, integrity and high moral standards for its operation.. .. .Fact: Virgin Blue has employed numerous older pilots and does not discriminate on the basis of age.. .. .For those of you who failed the test over 12 years ago, that is just too bad, isn't it ?. . . . <small>[ 06 March 2002, 23:51: Message edited by: Interceptor ]</small>
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Just a quick question, though I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask it.. .. .Q: What did Qantas do or not do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> during the strike?. .. .Dog
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Worries me that some senior AN pilots are prepared to jeopardise the chances of a few junior pilots in getting jobs with VB.. .. .I feel they made a decision and must live by the consequences.Today`s circumstances were always a real possibility.I think using a national newspaper to raise the issue is spoilt behaviour.. .. .Reference not taking old AN pilots.I think VB would probably be better served by drawing attention to their belief that the clumsy management practices of larger airlines not transferable to a low cost model.. .. .Some very hard life leasons are being learnt at the moment.I implore senior pilots not to jeopardise the few opportunities remaining to F/Os because life has taken one of its many turns!
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You can discriminate on any factor that you desire if you keep it quiet. If you verbalize the discrimination, that becomes a legal problem. Precedent: Age discrimination to pilots by Northwest Airlines in the early 1980's. Forced to rehire all with seniority.
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Dogimed,. .. .Qantas pilots basically did not do a thing during the dispute lacking the intestinal fortitude to fully support their fellow pilots.. .. .They considered intervetnion and support beneath them forgetting how the Domestic and International pilots via IFALPA supported them in previous years.. .. .The Australian Aviation industry now bears the fruits of this and many other selfish, shortsighted actions.
Nunc est bibendum
Knight, perhaps it was intestinal fortitude that kept the AIPA out of it.. .. .Perhaps the AIPA didn't have the same level of 'group think' that the AFAP had.. .. .Perhaps from a position slightly removed from the trenches they could see the whole thing coming and tried to warn the AFAP about the risk/payoff of their actions.. .. .I wasn't in QF back then so i don't know but just trying to give you the flip side from some of the stuff I've overheard over the years.
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The then Labor Prime Minister, Hawke, the ACTU, Crean, Kelty, et al approved and fast tracked the use of SCAB labour by Ansett and Australian (now Qantas) Airlines.. .. .Ansett and Australian refused to re-hire pilots who refused to SCAB (and the sons of these pilots) with the exception of a token few of questionable credentials to avoid charges of discrimination.. .. .Ansett and Qantas refuted such practices saying no blacklist applied.. .. .Virgin Blue does not need to discriminate and has every right to employ those it considers are suitable professionals with decency, integrity and high moral standards for its operation.. .. .Nor is there any need for such a list as the names are indelibly inscribed in the minds of the pilots who contributed to the building of two of the then worlds best airline only to see them destroyed by those of lesser integrity and morals.
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Keg,. .. .Just some stuff you have heard over the years and you were not in Qantas at the time indicates a serious need to do much more historical research prior to accepting Aipa's apparent position of the time.. .. .AIPA removed the Qantas pilots from the trenches as it was beneath their diginity to support their fellow pilots of a supposed lesser postition several years previous.. .. .Had Qantas pilots still been within the AFAP, perhaps, as had been the case for many years, despite the fact that much vigorous debate would have again occurred and various points of view debated some of their wise counsel and views may have prevailed.. .. .Certainly, a united pilot group would have achieved more rather than the government, airlines exploiting the known divisiion.. .. .Proof is demonstrated by the postion of the pilot group today.. . . . <small>[ 07 March 2002, 00:13: Message edited by: Dark Knight ]</small>