OZ domestic fuel reserves.
Thread Starter
OZ domestic fuel reserves.
Would you mind explaining the Australian Domestic Fuel policy to me,
I was looking through some paperwork which stated:
> Diversion = 45 mins continued cruise
> Hold = 60 mins at max endurance
> Cont = 15% of block fuel.
Under the FAR rules, we only need to consider:
> Diversion to closest Alternate
> Hold = 45 mins
Why do you have to carry so much fuel?
Thanks.
Mutt
I was looking through some paperwork which stated:
> Diversion = 45 mins continued cruise
> Hold = 60 mins at max endurance
> Cont = 15% of block fuel.
Under the FAR rules, we only need to consider:
> Diversion to closest Alternate
> Hold = 45 mins
Why do you have to carry so much fuel?
Thanks.
Mutt
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our fuel requirements in Australia are found in CAR 234 and CAAP 234-1.
Companies will have their own fuel policy but in general, a charter operator (piston) must carry:
On top of flight and alternate fuel:
Fixed Reserves: 45 min at holding rate (1500ft above aerodrome)
Variable Reserves: 15% of flight and alternate fuel
Holding: as required by wx / traffic etc. conditions.
From your info, I can't only assume that on that flight, the aircraft had to plan for an alternate aerodrome that was 45 min away, where the wx conditions had a TEMPO or 60min holding.
Companies will have their own fuel policy but in general, a charter operator (piston) must carry:
On top of flight and alternate fuel:
Fixed Reserves: 45 min at holding rate (1500ft above aerodrome)
Variable Reserves: 15% of flight and alternate fuel
Holding: as required by wx / traffic etc. conditions.
From your info, I can't only assume that on that flight, the aircraft had to plan for an alternate aerodrome that was 45 min away, where the wx conditions had a TEMPO or 60min holding.
Props are for boats!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: An Asian Hub
Age: 56
Posts: 994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After flying in the CARIBBEAN and Central America. I have concluded that AUSTRALIA is the only country thats has TEMPOS AND INTERS in their forecast system. Are there any other expats out there who agree, or am I wrong? 
Basically Mutt I suggest going to www.casa.gov.au look up legislation. And then look the quoted CAR and CAAPS from the above response.
Regards
Sheep
[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: Sheep Guts ]
Basically Mutt I suggest going to www.casa.gov.au look up legislation. And then look the quoted CAR and CAAPS from the above response.
Regards
Sheep
[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: Sheep Guts ]
Grandpa Aerotart
Mutt,
Typical jet RPT/Charter min fuel would be,
Taxi/take-off fuel
+
Flight Fuel (which is from 1500' on departure to 1500' at desto and on to 1500' ovrhd Alternate if required)
+
Variable Reserve= 10% of FF
+
Fixed Reserve = 30 minutes
+
Approach & landing
Given that the fuel flows they dictate for calculating FR are often unrealistic, do you really burn the same rate at 1500' as in crz?, I think the carrying of the 10% for the diversion is good and I've used the entire VR more than once.
It seems the only difference is the VR applied to the diversion fuel.
Chuck.
Edited because typing in the UBB code didn't work!!
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: Chimbu chuckles ]
Typical jet RPT/Charter min fuel would be,
Taxi/take-off fuel
+
Flight Fuel (which is from 1500' on departure to 1500' at desto and on to 1500' ovrhd Alternate if required)
+
Variable Reserve= 10% of FF
+
Fixed Reserve = 30 minutes
+
Approach & landing
Given that the fuel flows they dictate for calculating FR are often unrealistic, do you really burn the same rate at 1500' as in crz?, I think the carrying of the 10% for the diversion is good and I've used the entire VR more than once.
It seems the only difference is the VR applied to the diversion fuel.
Chuck.
Edited because typing in the UBB code didn't work!!
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: Chimbu chuckles ]
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Australasia
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wantok,
I am confused:
What has the start of climb altitude and end of descent altitude got to do with cruise fuel flow?
As I understand it, the Oz 10% variable is made up of 5% for met variations (same as FAA/JAA) and 5% for aircraft variations, the latter being something of a catch-all because very few operators have valid aircraft performance decrement measurement systems.
I am confused:
Given that the fuel flows they dictate for calculating FR are often unrealistic, do you really burn the same rate at 1500' as in crz?, I think the carrying of the 10% for the diversion is good and I've used the entire VR more than once.
It seems the only difference is the VR applied to the diversion fuel.
It seems the only difference is the VR applied to the diversion fuel.
As I understand it, the Oz 10% variable is made up of 5% for met variations (same as FAA/JAA) and 5% for aircraft variations, the latter being something of a catch-all because very few operators have valid aircraft performance decrement measurement systems.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: your worst nightmare
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW
The Aussie fuel regulations were founded on the "sub-divide and conquer" principle. i.e. the regs basically only say that you must carry 'an appropriate quantitiy of fuel for the flight', without giving a further regulatory definition (remember, the CAAP's are not strictly legally binding, though they do provide 'expert advice'). This paves the way essentially for each and every company in Australia to have it's own interpretation of 'appropriate quantity' via the legally binding fuel policy pages in each individual ops manual (take a close look, its surprising how much this can sometimes vary between all manner of GA and bigger companies).
So, Mutt, strictly speaking, there is no Australia wide fuel policy, but as a generalisation the CAAP's (Civil Aviation Advisory Publication) usually hold true with:
Fixed reserve: 45 min
Variable reserve: 10% for turbine, 15% for piston
extra holding as required by weather, traffic notam (eg 20 mins for most of us @ SY, differs at different airports at different times), etc.
The Aussie fuel regulations were founded on the "sub-divide and conquer" principle. i.e. the regs basically only say that you must carry 'an appropriate quantitiy of fuel for the flight', without giving a further regulatory definition (remember, the CAAP's are not strictly legally binding, though they do provide 'expert advice'). This paves the way essentially for each and every company in Australia to have it's own interpretation of 'appropriate quantity' via the legally binding fuel policy pages in each individual ops manual (take a close look, its surprising how much this can sometimes vary between all manner of GA and bigger companies).
So, Mutt, strictly speaking, there is no Australia wide fuel policy, but as a generalisation the CAAP's (Civil Aviation Advisory Publication) usually hold true with:
Fixed reserve: 45 min
Variable reserve: 10% for turbine, 15% for piston
extra holding as required by weather, traffic notam (eg 20 mins for most of us @ SY, differs at different airports at different times), etc.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Download the Guidelines for Aircraft Fuel Requirements from the CASA web site.
SUMMARY
Aeroplanes
Piston:
Fixed Reserve: 45 minutes
Variable Reserve: 15%
Turbine or JET:
Fixed Reserve: 30 minutes
Variable Reserve: 10%
Helicopters
Fixed Reserve VFR: 20 minutes (VFR) & 30 minutes (IFR)
Variable Reserve - PVT & AWK: Nil
Variable Reserve - RPT & CHTR: 15%
As lackov said, the CAAPs are not legally binding. However, if you want your Operations Manual approved with a fuel policy that is not compliant with the 'expert' CAAP recommendations, be prepared to surrender sufficient operational documentation and working evidence to CASA to prove that your company fuel policy is adequate.
In the light of operational experience (particularly with regular freight or RPT) you will soon determine exactly how much fuel is required for a particular operation.
SUMMARY
Aeroplanes
Piston:
Fixed Reserve: 45 minutes
Variable Reserve: 15%
Turbine or JET:
Fixed Reserve: 30 minutes
Variable Reserve: 10%
Helicopters
Fixed Reserve VFR: 20 minutes (VFR) & 30 minutes (IFR)
Variable Reserve - PVT & AWK: Nil
Variable Reserve - RPT & CHTR: 15%
As lackov said, the CAAPs are not legally binding. However, if you want your Operations Manual approved with a fuel policy that is not compliant with the 'expert' CAAP recommendations, be prepared to surrender sufficient operational documentation and working evidence to CASA to prove that your company fuel policy is adequate.
In the light of operational experience (particularly with regular freight or RPT) you will soon determine exactly how much fuel is required for a particular operation.
Thread Starter
Once again, thank you. Unfortunately I cant get into why I want this info, but I most certainly appreciate all the input.
4-dogs,
We used to have a valid aircraft performance decrement measurement system on some of our older Boeing aircraft. They were called Flight Engineers!
As for your question What has the start of climb altitude and end of descent altitude got to do with cruise fuel flow?
Under the regulations (FAA), you are obliged to have 30 minute International/45 minute Domestic fuel reserve for hold at 1,500 feet. However the regulations do not say what this fuel flow should be based on. You may find that it is generally acceptable to use the fuel flow for a normal cruise level for this time period.
The same applies for the 10% contingency fuel, using computer flight plans, this fuel is based on the fuel flow for the last two segments prior to the top of descent, this relates to the lowest fuel flow.
Mutt
4-dogs,
We used to have a valid aircraft performance decrement measurement system on some of our older Boeing aircraft. They were called Flight Engineers!
As for your question What has the start of climb altitude and end of descent altitude got to do with cruise fuel flow?
Under the regulations (FAA), you are obliged to have 30 minute International/45 minute Domestic fuel reserve for hold at 1,500 feet. However the regulations do not say what this fuel flow should be based on. You may find that it is generally acceptable to use the fuel flow for a normal cruise level for this time period.
The same applies for the 10% contingency fuel, using computer flight plans, this fuel is based on the fuel flow for the last two segments prior to the top of descent, this relates to the lowest fuel flow.
Mutt
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi there Mutt. I think you will find most domestic jet airlines and regionals in Oz will have a 30 min fixed reserve, and a 10% variable reserve policy. The variable reserve can legally be used . Therefore you only have to land with the 30 min fixed reserve. Anything less than this constitutes a fuel emergency. As stated, this is based on a hold at 1,500 feet above the airfield. In VMC conditions, there is no requirement to carry alternate fuel, hence they don't.
If you want to see some pilots carry buckets of fuel around for no good reason, go to Europe. In some cases it is mind boggling.
If you want to see some pilots carry buckets of fuel around for no good reason, go to Europe. In some cases it is mind boggling.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Australasia
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mutt,
Sorry mate, I was just querying what CC was actually saying.
I don't think that there is any doubt about how the Fixed Reserve is expected to be calculated - there should be a stated holding configuration and there should be matching fuel consumption data, hence the quanta is easily determined. Generally, this is manufacturer's data but can be properly derived operator data - it is not normally dictated by the regulator. I couldn't fathom who CC's "they" was.
I could not (and still cannot) see how cruise fuel flows would get a look in for calculating FR.
Sorry mate, I was just querying what CC was actually saying.
I don't think that there is any doubt about how the Fixed Reserve is expected to be calculated - there should be a stated holding configuration and there should be matching fuel consumption data, hence the quanta is easily determined. Generally, this is manufacturer's data but can be properly derived operator data - it is not normally dictated by the regulator. I couldn't fathom who CC's "they" was.
I could not (and still cannot) see how cruise fuel flows would get a look in for calculating FR.
