Ansett's Future!
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Ansett's Future!
I'm sure 99% of people out there would like too see AN survive. It is not only an Australian icon but also an airline made up of thousand's of people, most who don't fly the aircraft but love the industry!
These people have families to provide for and deserve the opportunity to have a stable form of employment. This is something the new AN will offer.
For those of you who still live in the 1980's, listening to Boy George, you should have some more consideration for others.
This is not about pay-back time for the 1989 dispute. There are only a couple hundred pilots left in Ansett who a few mindless people would call scabs. The rest are people who need a job and really don't give jack **** that your still pissed off with something that happened 12 years ago.
The problem is most of you still haven't got on with your lives. Wasn't my fault you quit your job!
These people have families to provide for and deserve the opportunity to have a stable form of employment. This is something the new AN will offer.
For those of you who still live in the 1980's, listening to Boy George, you should have some more consideration for others.
This is not about pay-back time for the 1989 dispute. There are only a couple hundred pilots left in Ansett who a few mindless people would call scabs. The rest are people who need a job and really don't give jack **** that your still pissed off with something that happened 12 years ago.
The problem is most of you still haven't got on with your lives. Wasn't my fault you quit your job!
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Fair call Toecutter....except for your last sentence. Comments like that are bound to open this up for an '89 debate, and I think that's warranted.
Leave the childish and emotive comments out if you don't want to return to 'Boy George' and the fluoro sock era!!
Leave the childish and emotive comments out if you don't want to return to 'Boy George' and the fluoro sock era!!
Here we go again.
Yes it was 12 years ago my friend, I have gone on and got a life but there is no reason to forget what those spineless little people did.
I tried like hell to get a job back in AN for 4 years, was interviewed tested and found acceptable. I frequently saw the then Chief Pilot ( JD ) and he had no objections to me being re-employed as an F/O. he told me to keep in touch and come see him anytime to talk.
BUT the Scabs had decided that due to safety reasons they could not fly with non-scabs and that was that. They even had that fact ratified by officialdom in their contract in the IRC,it was set in concrete that we could never "safely mix".
The scabs did what they could to lock me and others out of Ansett and a job in OZ.
Now what goes around comes around. VB will not accept any Captain from AN on the grounds that it not safe to mix the two groups!!!!!!!! I bet there are a few scabs regretting that letter now.
So if you think that I or any other 89 er can forgive and forget then you are wrong.
I wish all the non-scabs the best of luck.
cheers.
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: ACMS ]
Yes it was 12 years ago my friend, I have gone on and got a life but there is no reason to forget what those spineless little people did.
I tried like hell to get a job back in AN for 4 years, was interviewed tested and found acceptable. I frequently saw the then Chief Pilot ( JD ) and he had no objections to me being re-employed as an F/O. he told me to keep in touch and come see him anytime to talk.
BUT the Scabs had decided that due to safety reasons they could not fly with non-scabs and that was that. They even had that fact ratified by officialdom in their contract in the IRC,it was set in concrete that we could never "safely mix".
The scabs did what they could to lock me and others out of Ansett and a job in OZ.
Now what goes around comes around. VB will not accept any Captain from AN on the grounds that it not safe to mix the two groups!!!!!!!! I bet there are a few scabs regretting that letter now.
So if you think that I or any other 89 er can forgive and forget then you are wrong.
I wish all the non-scabs the best of luck.
cheers.
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: ACMS ]
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ACMS- I feel for you, but i'm sorry your facts are quite wrong. Ansett re-employed many ex pilots, some very late in the game ie early to mid 1991. Two of these guys susequently got their commands and I had the pleasure of being their F/O's. Both were absolute professionals in every sense of the word and I was pleased to hear that they were in fact recently employed as direct entry Captains at Virgin Blue.
One ex pilot was actually re-employed in the mid 90's, he's now in DragonAir.
One ex pilot was actually re-employed in the mid 90's, he's now in DragonAir.
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Toecutter,
as an AN pilot, not involved in 89,I find your remarks insensitive & impertinent.
We were affected by 89-talk about the questionable promotions,CRJs,INH,events that with some strength in our pilot group may not have eventuated.89 is a legacy generations will pay for and I don`t think should be dismissed so nonchantly.
There is a bitter group of pilots evolving now,careers ruined,forced abroad and cursing AirNZ.They are AN pilots and years from now I think they will take offence at being told to forgive those culpable.
Was referring to CRJ promotion of AN F/Os,not any inadequecies of KD or the a/c.
as an AN pilot, not involved in 89,I find your remarks insensitive & impertinent.
We were affected by 89-talk about the questionable promotions,CRJs,INH,events that with some strength in our pilot group may not have eventuated.89 is a legacy generations will pay for and I don`t think should be dismissed so nonchantly.
There is a bitter group of pilots evolving now,careers ruined,forced abroad and cursing AirNZ.They are AN pilots and years from now I think they will take offence at being told to forgive those culpable.
Was referring to CRJ promotion of AN F/Os,not any inadequecies of KD or the a/c.
Yep I knew most of those fellas and I worked with them in MAS before they returned to AN.
Took them a long time to upgrade to Capt but they made it. Thank god.
AN interviewed a hell of a lot of guys like me back in mid 1990, needed all of us back and indeed would have taken us back. But the scabs DID have it in their contract ( approved by the IRC )that they would not have to work with non-scabs as it "was a flight safety issue" This is a FACT.
So Ansett took back half a dozen guys to show the world they were not against us and to "prove" to the IRC that the dispute was over and "hey guys no hard feelings". That's why only half a dozen got back in, FACT.
VB have not employed any AN Captain. They have employed 737 F/O's only. This comes from a source in VB Check and Training dept. And better still JR has a copy of the AN Pilot's Assoc letter from 1990 outlining their concerns and requirements over "flight safety in the cockpit" and is laughing himself silly, seems what goes around...!!FACT.
Now take a deep breath.
Took them a long time to upgrade to Capt but they made it. Thank god.
AN interviewed a hell of a lot of guys like me back in mid 1990, needed all of us back and indeed would have taken us back. But the scabs DID have it in their contract ( approved by the IRC )that they would not have to work with non-scabs as it "was a flight safety issue" This is a FACT.
So Ansett took back half a dozen guys to show the world they were not against us and to "prove" to the IRC that the dispute was over and "hey guys no hard feelings". That's why only half a dozen got back in, FACT.
VB have not employed any AN Captain. They have employed 737 F/O's only. This comes from a source in VB Check and Training dept. And better still JR has a copy of the AN Pilot's Assoc letter from 1990 outlining their concerns and requirements over "flight safety in the cockpit" and is laughing himself silly, seems what goes around...!!FACT.
Now take a deep breath.
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VB have in fact employed about 6 ex-AN, post 1990 Capts - all considered 'cleanskins', although a couple are very cagey about their AN start dates (March 1990) as it opens the question just when did they apply to AN ? Also, I believe most of the 20 odd ex-AN pilots employed by VB still haven't resigned from AN, woried about losing entitlements. Seems they are hoping the administrators don't read PPRuNe.
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Yes indeed what goes around comes around and strap youselves in boys - the biggest things ever to happen in Australian aviation are in the pipeline.I forecast a return to a two airline system and no I would not apply to Virgin,I,m not seeking short term employment.
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[But the scabs DID have it in their contract ( approved by the IRC )that they would not have to work with non-scabs as it "was a flight safety issue" This is a FACT.]
Sorry ACMS but I have it on good authority that this is bull****!! I guess you are mates with Kaptin M and Tool Time, etc.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story now will you!
Sorry ACMS but I have it on good authority that this is bull****!! I guess you are mates with Kaptin M and Tool Time, etc.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story now will you!
I was a part of '89, directly involved and I'm telling you that it was the case. They used the "flight safety issue" to stop us mixing with them. FACT. I'll see if the officials know the exact details and advise.
A senior ( although Seniority didn't make any difference ) Capt in AN who went back a scab on the 767 whose initials are I.R.
Told me on the flight deck that this was the case. He was trying to help my return as well but I was screwed by the AN Pilots assoc ruling.
It never ceases to amaze me about how you new guys are quick to dismiss the actions of the scabs in '89. Quick to blame us and tell us it's 12 years ago so forget it.
WE CANNOT FORGET WHAT WE WENT THROUGH, HOW WOULD YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT WAS LIKE BACK THEN, ALL THE PRESSURE AND EMOTIONAL ISSUES THAT I FACED AS A 2 YEAR F/O. IT WAS HORRIFIC TO SAY THE LEAST HOW GOOD PILOTS GOT ABSOLUTELY ****ED IN '89 BY ABLES, HAWKE AND THE AFAP. AUSTRALIAN AVIATION WAS NEVER THE SAME AGAIN AND RECENT HISTORY HAS PROVED US RIGHT. MAYBE YOU LOT CAN LEARN FROM PAST MISTAKES AND BUILD A GOOD AIRLINE FROM THE ASHES, I CERTAINLY HOPE SO. BUT YOU WONT IF YOU KEEP YOUR HEADS IN THE SAND AND PRETEND '89 NEVER HAPPENED.
Get a copy of Brad Norringtons book Sky Pirates and have a read. Although a little biased against the Pilots it contains a lot of good info.
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: ACMS ]
A senior ( although Seniority didn't make any difference ) Capt in AN who went back a scab on the 767 whose initials are I.R.
Told me on the flight deck that this was the case. He was trying to help my return as well but I was screwed by the AN Pilots assoc ruling.
It never ceases to amaze me about how you new guys are quick to dismiss the actions of the scabs in '89. Quick to blame us and tell us it's 12 years ago so forget it.
WE CANNOT FORGET WHAT WE WENT THROUGH, HOW WOULD YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT WAS LIKE BACK THEN, ALL THE PRESSURE AND EMOTIONAL ISSUES THAT I FACED AS A 2 YEAR F/O. IT WAS HORRIFIC TO SAY THE LEAST HOW GOOD PILOTS GOT ABSOLUTELY ****ED IN '89 BY ABLES, HAWKE AND THE AFAP. AUSTRALIAN AVIATION WAS NEVER THE SAME AGAIN AND RECENT HISTORY HAS PROVED US RIGHT. MAYBE YOU LOT CAN LEARN FROM PAST MISTAKES AND BUILD A GOOD AIRLINE FROM THE ASHES, I CERTAINLY HOPE SO. BUT YOU WONT IF YOU KEEP YOUR HEADS IN THE SAND AND PRETEND '89 NEVER HAPPENED.
Get a copy of Brad Norringtons book Sky Pirates and have a read. Although a little biased against the Pilots it contains a lot of good info.
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: ACMS ]
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ACMS 
Thank you, inspite of everything at the moment (I'm a AN FO - 'nonscab') your post has me in histerical laughter, I love the use of capitals to really make out you're yelling!!!
Us "new guys" are well aware of your past plight and the implications of it. Your generation is respected for your stand. Having said that, us "new guys" are more worried about the future, it would be fair to say that we don't give a rats @r$e about 1989. It just brings back memories of primary school. BTW you cannot reason with me as to why I should care - I don't and I won't, so don't bother. Later.
Further responses regarding the Year 1989 should be directed to the 1989 thread where "new guys" will not be reading it. This thread, entitled "Ansetts Future" (yes FUTURE) is inappropriate for these arguments.
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: Bronte ]
Thank you, inspite of everything at the moment (I'm a AN FO - 'nonscab') your post has me in histerical laughter, I love the use of capitals to really make out you're yelling!!!
Us "new guys" are well aware of your past plight and the implications of it. Your generation is respected for your stand. Having said that, us "new guys" are more worried about the future, it would be fair to say that we don't give a rats @r$e about 1989. It just brings back memories of primary school. BTW you cannot reason with me as to why I should care - I don't and I won't, so don't bother. Later.
Further responses regarding the Year 1989 should be directed to the 1989 thread where "new guys" will not be reading it. This thread, entitled "Ansetts Future" (yes FUTURE) is inappropriate for these arguments.
[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: Bronte ]
