NZ Military Airspace Review
Safety First!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NZ Military Airspace Review
With the demise of the RNZAF Air Combat Force, is there any longer a requirement for the expanse of military airspce in the middle of the North Island? Will the necessity of this airspace be reviewed? One can understand the requirement for pockets of airspace for helicopters and PTS, and for the army and navy when live firing. For overseas visits by fast jets they could easily NOTAM areas of airspace as temporary restrictions, just as they presently do for gliding champs etc.
Just a thought.
Kermie
Just a thought.
Kermie
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well thought out. Most of the military airspace is available for use when they are not using it. I guess we will be able to fly through it more frequently now, especially that airspace on the eastern side of the North Island above 10,000'.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Red Feather Club
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What was the general feeling among those in the aviation industry regarding the scrapping of the combat wing in NZ?. .Was it the right move?. .It seemed not that long ago that the previous gov was talking about F16's?. .Anyway suspect that this has ben thrashed out in the past, just wondered...
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Tropical location mostly
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kermeeet ?
you obviously have the good oil on whats going on that side of the tasman , so tell us.
how shakey is clarke and co now , in light of recent decisions...ie..air nz and 75 sqd ?
do you think the next govt will say "jeezus , lets get those boys back here and in F16's" and resurrect the combat wing in some form ?
can you now belt up the west coast at 1000ft from paraparam to raglan without doing that maritime cross country at oharkeah?
will they hang harpoons or sparrows or sidewinders off NZ4201-02-03-04-05-06 ??
whats happening at wigram?
whats happening at whenuapai?
whats happening at oharkeah?
does the canterbury aeroclub still exist ?
where are simon burt/wade pilkington and milton woodhouse these days ??
will the "desert road" track now be wide enough for 2 aircraft to pass ?
are the UH1B's to be re-engined, rebuilt or replaced with the B412SP or B214ST ?
do you think there has been a drift over the last decade or so towards a more passive and peaceful (submissive?) image for NZ?...ie...no nukes no US carriers etc etc
what happened to the all blacks mojo ? and who stole it ?
Who owns west melton airfield now ?
if the orions are going to be milti-tasked will the SAR territories covering the north eastern reaches of the pacific islands be revised to account for the increased workload on the 4 airworthy P3's ?
and finaly ,whatever happened to wally wagtendonk ? and the lovely Jan...?
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
you obviously have the good oil on whats going on that side of the tasman , so tell us.
how shakey is clarke and co now , in light of recent decisions...ie..air nz and 75 sqd ?
do you think the next govt will say "jeezus , lets get those boys back here and in F16's" and resurrect the combat wing in some form ?
can you now belt up the west coast at 1000ft from paraparam to raglan without doing that maritime cross country at oharkeah?
will they hang harpoons or sparrows or sidewinders off NZ4201-02-03-04-05-06 ??
whats happening at wigram?
whats happening at whenuapai?
whats happening at oharkeah?
does the canterbury aeroclub still exist ?
where are simon burt/wade pilkington and milton woodhouse these days ??
will the "desert road" track now be wide enough for 2 aircraft to pass ?
are the UH1B's to be re-engined, rebuilt or replaced with the B412SP or B214ST ?
do you think there has been a drift over the last decade or so towards a more passive and peaceful (submissive?) image for NZ?...ie...no nukes no US carriers etc etc
what happened to the all blacks mojo ? and who stole it ?
Who owns west melton airfield now ?
if the orions are going to be milti-tasked will the SAR territories covering the north eastern reaches of the pacific islands be revised to account for the increased workload on the 4 airworthy P3's ?
and finaly ,whatever happened to wally wagtendonk ? and the lovely Jan...?
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Kiwi PPRuNer
Join Date: May 2000
Location: rockingham, western australia
Age: 42
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
west melton airfield is now owned by the canterbury aeroclub, wigram is owned by the maoris,and i think the airforce has one iroquois based there, ohakea is loosing the aermacchis and skyhawks, but gaining the iroquois, sioux, and b200's,
Join Date: Jun 1997
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> It was the most stupid and damaging piece of ideologically driven vandalism that NZ has seen for a long time. It matters not NOW that the Chief of General Staff was found out sabotaging the RNZAF (the junked F16 lease deal was the only way we would have seen a successor to the A4, at least in the lifetime of those reading this), since the white-ant job is essentially irreversible. . .It is plain that CDS could not resign over the matter, since that would have played into the hand of Dodson and Clarke, but where was CAS's resignation? Where were the strident declamations of the one and two star RNZAF officers? ( other than the absent protests of the two one-stars who did very well, thanks very much-The going rate is not 30 pieces of silver, it seems, but one or two stars.)
edited for addition of missing "not' and spelling
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: cribble ]</p>
edited for addition of missing "not' and spelling
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: cribble ]</p>
Confectionary Transfer Technician
Join Date: May 2001
Location: South Island
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tooheys. .To answer a few more of your questions
Wally is up whakatane or some somewhere around there. I can find out exactally where if you want.
M306 - The Ohakea pain in the Bum is still there, now there is no need for a bombing range so they should get rid of it.
Canterbury Aero Club is going strong, with new Club rooms in 1999 or 2000 I forget, very flash, but know all the GA is over the over side, Jay is still there too.
With regards to everones favourite PM Good ol Helen, I think shes slipped a bit in the Polls, but we have a small dilemmer of who to vote for cause they are all useless & it's just a case of who's the least useless <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . The airforce might have jets back, but I would doubt if it would be before 2010 <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> .
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Blue Line ]</p>
Wally is up whakatane or some somewhere around there. I can find out exactally where if you want.
M306 - The Ohakea pain in the Bum is still there, now there is no need for a bombing range so they should get rid of it.
Canterbury Aero Club is going strong, with new Club rooms in 1999 or 2000 I forget, very flash, but know all the GA is over the over side, Jay is still there too.
With regards to everones favourite PM Good ol Helen, I think shes slipped a bit in the Polls, but we have a small dilemmer of who to vote for cause they are all useless & it's just a case of who's the least useless <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . The airforce might have jets back, but I would doubt if it would be before 2010 <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> .
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Blue Line ]</p>
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It wouldn't surprise me to see Whenupai closed in the near future as there is now plenty of space at Ohakea to accomodate all of the Transport Squadrons and they could still send PTS to Woodbourne as they originally planned. Whenuapai will be worth millions to the national coffers unless they give it to the Maoris as they did Wigram.
They, the military, could then have detachments based at Mangere, as they do at Christchurch, which would give the AIA more income to help with the development of the Third Runway on the Northern side of the airport and keep all the air traffic to one side of Auckland.
Helen could spend all the millions she has made out of selling Whenuapai to allow more refugees into the country for a free ride and boost the population of Godzone with more third world mentality and before you know it Air New Zealand could obtain new aircraft, like most Polynesian countries do with someone like Qantas managing the operation. Hell it could be done now so as to stop all the BULLSH*T that appears about the subject of Air NZ's survival on this forum.
They, the military, could then have detachments based at Mangere, as they do at Christchurch, which would give the AIA more income to help with the development of the Third Runway on the Northern side of the airport and keep all the air traffic to one side of Auckland.
Helen could spend all the millions she has made out of selling Whenuapai to allow more refugees into the country for a free ride and boost the population of Godzone with more third world mentality and before you know it Air New Zealand could obtain new aircraft, like most Polynesian countries do with someone like Qantas managing the operation. Hell it could be done now so as to stop all the BULLSH*T that appears about the subject of Air NZ's survival on this forum.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NZ
Posts: 656
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SAAB Boy,
I personally feel that NZ did not warrant a ACF but don't agree that we just drop it like a disease infested 16 yo girl.
I would like to see a formal alliance with Australia where we would be jointly responsible for both our areas of responsibility, with Aust maintaining an effective ACF and NZ providing an effective air transport force.
Training can be jointly conducted. NZ could have kept the Macchi's and provided advanced flight training to both NZ/Aust aircrews. New pilots/Nav's could enlist with dreams of the fast jet and depending on requirements & abilities, be selected for either Ozzie fast jets or Ozzie/Kiwi multi-engine/chopper roles.
This way we could still provide an effective partnership/defense role to the pacific region and also continue to play an important role in UN ops.
A sort of ANZAC Defense Force.
What do others think?
Sorry for going off topic Kermie. But a review of military airspace would be warranted if the currnet situation continues.
I wonder how much the M310 (western side of Desert Road) is actually used for live firing etc that warrants a ceiling of FL150. Surely this area could disappear, very unlikely that the Army would target their shots across SH1!
Cheers. .S2K
I personally feel that NZ did not warrant a ACF but don't agree that we just drop it like a disease infested 16 yo girl.
I would like to see a formal alliance with Australia where we would be jointly responsible for both our areas of responsibility, with Aust maintaining an effective ACF and NZ providing an effective air transport force.
Training can be jointly conducted. NZ could have kept the Macchi's and provided advanced flight training to both NZ/Aust aircrews. New pilots/Nav's could enlist with dreams of the fast jet and depending on requirements & abilities, be selected for either Ozzie fast jets or Ozzie/Kiwi multi-engine/chopper roles.
This way we could still provide an effective partnership/defense role to the pacific region and also continue to play an important role in UN ops.
A sort of ANZAC Defense Force.
What do others think?
Sorry for going off topic Kermie. But a review of military airspace would be warranted if the currnet situation continues.
I wonder how much the M310 (western side of Desert Road) is actually used for live firing etc that warrants a ceiling of FL150. Surely this area could disappear, very unlikely that the Army would target their shots across SH1!
Cheers. .S2K
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Just outside England
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S2K,. .I'm not sure its Australia's job to defend NZ so Clarke can squander money on the welfare state - for any Western country to even stand still militarily, let alone cut back, in the present climate, strikes me as pretty cretinous.
TicketyBoo.
TicketyBoo.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: 20deg N, 35deg C
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S2K
My sentiments exactly. Where is the threat? It's certainly not here in Godzone is it...the top end of Aussie is where any action would be seen and I still fail to see the need for an ACF based in NZ. An ANZAC strike force based in Aussie makes sense to me and use the facilities in NZ to provide the training. As for the military airspace, frankly I'm pleased to see this is no longer required. The waste of time and money to domestic flights routing around this huge chunk of a/space all for one macci or a couple of A4's proved a constant source of frustration for many. Good riddance!
My sentiments exactly. Where is the threat? It's certainly not here in Godzone is it...the top end of Aussie is where any action would be seen and I still fail to see the need for an ACF based in NZ. An ANZAC strike force based in Aussie makes sense to me and use the facilities in NZ to provide the training. As for the military airspace, frankly I'm pleased to see this is no longer required. The waste of time and money to domestic flights routing around this huge chunk of a/space all for one macci or a couple of A4's proved a constant source of frustration for many. Good riddance!
Guest
Posts: n/a
TinPusher,. .Where is the threat? Anyone who is going to be a threat is hardly likely to give you written notice. The last real threat to NZ was in 1942 from the what was quaintly called the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. These days you can fly to Japan and still have 4 hours fuel up your sleeve so anyone can get to NZ very rapidly. NZ is not the isolated nation it once was. Unfortunately like WW1 and WW2 it will take a real showdown to make NZers pull their finger out.It's too bad that people die in the meantime.. .Successive govts. have ignored NZ's defence and now the defence forces themselves are busy fighting each other. What a shambles.
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Skol ]</p>
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Skol ]</p>
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems like the Navy will be getting the dosh.. .Replace the Canterbury with a Multi role vessel .. .With transport and undeveloped landing capability (APCs for the military, bulldozers for the greenies). .Add a couple or three 80m offshore patrol boats (corvettes ?) all with Seasprites,. .An upgrade of inshore mine sweepers to fisheries patrol boats.. .And an Ice capable hull somewhere in the mix.
Doesn't sound too bad .....I'll believe it when I see it.
<a href="http://www.navy.mil.nz/rnzn/sub_page.cfm?Article_ID=937&Sequence_ID=80" target="_blank">2002 review</a>
Doesn't sound too bad .....I'll believe it when I see it.
<a href="http://www.navy.mil.nz/rnzn/sub_page.cfm?Article_ID=937&Sequence_ID=80" target="_blank">2002 review</a>
