Steps of Becoming an Airline Pilot?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: AusVegas
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stevie boy - one thing you might consider is doing a degree course. It wont make any difference to getting a GA job, but it definitely puts you closer to the top of the resume pile with Qantas. Maths and Physics to a year 12 level are essential, but its not impossible to get in without year 12 english. Once thats done - its a lot of hard knocks and kicks in the ghoulies. Worth every bit of it.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Not sure why a few of the people on here say "get over to the EU get a JAA licence, people jump straight into the RHS of a jet with 200-300hrs"
Only a FEW people actually jump straight into jets with 200-300 hrs and that depends on which airline Mummy and Daddy work for.
Given the cost of training in the UK and the current airline situation with carriers reducing capacity, I'd stay clear till that picks up again...which it will.
You referenced the QF Cadets being competitive....well lets face it what isn't in this world. Getting a crappy job at Myers is competitive, the world has too many people for all types of jobs, there will allways be an over supply of pilots cause its a great job to have. Don't let anyone tell you theres a huge shortage of pilots.....it's just bull****. Yes the cadets will cost you $AUD70,000 plus accomodation costs, not too mention 3 return trips to SY at you expense plus selection test fees! oh and of course no gaurantee of a job......no job is ever gauranteed, even when you've been offered a position.
My advice apply it's worth it if you get it.
Last year there were 31 cadets accepted and over 500 applied, not too competitive in my opinion. Gives you a 6% chance of getting in.
As they say you have to be in it to win it!
Only a FEW people actually jump straight into jets with 200-300 hrs and that depends on which airline Mummy and Daddy work for.
Given the cost of training in the UK and the current airline situation with carriers reducing capacity, I'd stay clear till that picks up again...which it will.
You referenced the QF Cadets being competitive....well lets face it what isn't in this world. Getting a crappy job at Myers is competitive, the world has too many people for all types of jobs, there will allways be an over supply of pilots cause its a great job to have. Don't let anyone tell you theres a huge shortage of pilots.....it's just bull****. Yes the cadets will cost you $AUD70,000 plus accomodation costs, not too mention 3 return trips to SY at you expense plus selection test fees! oh and of course no gaurantee of a job......no job is ever gauranteed, even when you've been offered a position.
My advice apply it's worth it if you get it.
Last year there were 31 cadets accepted and over 500 applied, not too competitive in my opinion. Gives you a 6% chance of getting in.
As they say you have to be in it to win it!
Grandpa Aerotart
stevieboy,
Seems like competition(RAAF/QF) put's you off! Believe me when I say that the difference is miniscule.
You can compete vigorously for a slot in RAAF, Army or QF, and IF you are successful, be virtually gauranteed of a job.
OR you can go along to this full time flying school, who's ONLY requirement is your ability to pay, get a licence, and be flung out the door at the end in an unemployable state.
You can then compete with the many hundreds of other chaps and chapesses in a similar position for the very limited and very poorly paid GA jobs.
If your very lucky you'll score a flying job of some discription and slowly build up some experience over several years to a decade, then you will compete VERY vigorously with thousands of other hopefulls for an Airline job. And believe me that is a pure lottery!
Chuck.
Seems like competition(RAAF/QF) put's you off! Believe me when I say that the difference is miniscule.
You can compete vigorously for a slot in RAAF, Army or QF, and IF you are successful, be virtually gauranteed of a job.
OR you can go along to this full time flying school, who's ONLY requirement is your ability to pay, get a licence, and be flung out the door at the end in an unemployable state.
You can then compete with the many hundreds of other chaps and chapesses in a similar position for the very limited and very poorly paid GA jobs.
If your very lucky you'll score a flying job of some discription and slowly build up some experience over several years to a decade, then you will compete VERY vigorously with thousands of other hopefulls for an Airline job. And believe me that is a pure lottery!
Chuck.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: CHINA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ummmmmm...... you all have valid reasons. The question is what should I do after graduating from my course? I do plan to do a degree course in the long run.
What can I do after graduating, I believe some pilots do go unemployed and some do get lucky.
"punannee" I must agree getting a job at Myers is very competitive, I once applied a job at Myers, I was turned down, in return I actually learned alot through this encounter
What can I do after graduating, I believe some pilots do go unemployed and some do get lucky.
"punannee" I must agree getting a job at Myers is very competitive, I once applied a job at Myers, I was turned down, in return I actually learned alot through this encounter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: AusVegas
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One suggestion to you stevieboy is to get all your training done before you set out looking for a flying job. That includes a degree first (if you plan on doing one - which I recommend)and defintaely your ATPL theory subjects. Ive seen heaps of guys held back because they dont have their ATPL subjects. Not to mention that its a pain in the butt spending 4 weeks of your hard earnt holidays swatting madly for them later. Plus once you've been away from the books for a while its diffcult to get the motivation for another assault and what things you used to have commited to memory or knew exactly where they were seem to have been misplaced somewhere Send me an email if you want more info
Send me an email if you want more info
Stevieboy,
If you're interested in doing a degree eventually, perhaps you should look at a fully integrated aviation degree. Being a Sydney boy, I'm not entirely sure what is offered in Melbourne, but I know both Swinburne - http://www.swin.edu.au/aviation/unicour7.htm and RMIT - http://www.aero.rmit.edu.au/flightTraining offer Bachelor of Aviation courses.
Most of these degrees are 3 years full-time and the better ones will fully incorporate training up to CPL/CIR and ATPL subjects. This means you will be killing two birds with one stone, and getting what you want in 3 years not 4 (1 year flying + 3 years uni).
I am just nearing the end of such a course and have found it to be great fun, really interesting (most of the time
) with a high standard of instruction. Not to mention meeting a great bunch of guys sharing similar goals and attending plenty of uni p**s-ups to chase some fluff!!! If anything, it gives you a couple of more years under your belt when you've finished, and time for all this present crap to blow over.
We won't go into great length debating the value of such degrees - it's been done to death over the last couple of years. Just accept that there are Pros and Cons, and aren't suited to all people.
Any other advice you want, just drop me a line - [email protected] . Keep us all informed what path you decide on.
Cheers,
TL
Edited to make links work...I suck
[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Transition Layer ]
If you're interested in doing a degree eventually, perhaps you should look at a fully integrated aviation degree. Being a Sydney boy, I'm not entirely sure what is offered in Melbourne, but I know both Swinburne - http://www.swin.edu.au/aviation/unicour7.htm and RMIT - http://www.aero.rmit.edu.au/flightTraining offer Bachelor of Aviation courses.
Most of these degrees are 3 years full-time and the better ones will fully incorporate training up to CPL/CIR and ATPL subjects. This means you will be killing two birds with one stone, and getting what you want in 3 years not 4 (1 year flying + 3 years uni).
I am just nearing the end of such a course and have found it to be great fun, really interesting (most of the time
) with a high standard of instruction. Not to mention meeting a great bunch of guys sharing similar goals and attending plenty of uni p**s-ups to chase some fluff!!! If anything, it gives you a couple of more years under your belt when you've finished, and time for all this present crap to blow over.We won't go into great length debating the value of such degrees - it's been done to death over the last couple of years. Just accept that there are Pros and Cons, and aren't suited to all people.
Any other advice you want, just drop me a line - [email protected] . Keep us all informed what path you decide on.
Cheers,
TL
Edited to make links work...I suck
[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: Transition Layer ]
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: CHINA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, the flying school @ RMIT in Melbourne contacted me today and we arranged an interview time for next week regarding acceptance into their course for 2002.
Does anyone have any advice on what to say and do in the interview? I need to be successful
Well, a degree will certainly be helpful, but age is the important factor for me now. I want to start flying asap so I can gain hours and experience. I am thinking of doing a part-time degree course, it might take longer, but I think it is worth it in the long run?
Does anyone have any advice on what to say and do in the interview? I need to be successful
Well, a degree will certainly be helpful, but age is the important factor for me now. I want to start flying asap so I can gain hours and experience. I am thinking of doing a part-time degree course, it might take longer, but I think it is worth it in the long run?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: AusVegas
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stevie, dont worry about the 'interview'. My experience of that is its only there to see that you arent a complete gum nut and have the finance to back up your desire to be a pilot. I would advise against doing the degree part time because when you come out of school you really do need a few extra years life experience under your belt before you go looking for work. Generally operators dont want someone who looks like 13 years old flying their aeroplanes with passengers. So you may as well be doing something whilst you're waiting to look older Of course there are exceptions and this is nothing personal because I dont know what you look like. Just remember, although its very competitive at almost every stage - its not a race. Take your time and do a job properly rather than do it half assed.
Of course there are exceptions and this is nothing personal because I dont know what you look like. Just remember, although its very competitive at almost every stage - its not a race. Take your time and do a job properly rather than do it half assed.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: GA - Australia
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stevie I was in exactly your position a few years ago. The best thing for you to do is to get a degree in something that is not aviation but may help if you do eventually get into an airline - i.e. management, IT buisness. That way if you one day lose your medical or like many lose your job for whatever reason you will have this other qualification to fall back on to. Never put all your eggs in one basket. The aviation degree is useful in a lot of ways however a) doesn't get you a job in GA and b) isn't that influential when it comes to getting an airline job. Sure you do want to have a degree but not one that can't help you if things go wrong. People tried to tell me this when I went through and I didn't listen...wish I had!
Seasonally Adjusted
Stevie, don't forget there are other options out there for a career in aviation. They may not all pay as well as the airlines but some may be just as rewarding. Some GA operators have big shiny planes too. 
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: CHINA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will have some sort of backup implemented just incase I fail my class 1 medical in the future, maybe I will even retire...LOL
Well, a job that increases my flying hours will be cool for me now I am not picky at all when it comes to jobs in the air industry. I will do anything to get it 
Well, a job that increases my flying hours will be cool for me now
I am not picky at all when it comes to jobs in the air industry. I will do anything to get it
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Stevie Think hard and long although this can be tough at your age. I have flown everything from cessna's to Boeings and the only thing that saved my ass when the S**t hit the fan was a degree and a postgrad qualification that I did as a hobby. When you look at the money you put in and the ridiculous lengths you go to get a job it really is NOT worth it. I make twice as much now as when I flew ( which even after 14 years it did not pay for itself in FV figures!). As always prioritise and realise that the gee up you get today may not match the gee up you get tommorow. Let's face it wages and conditions in Airlines will be nothing to write home about for the next ten years just ask the AN Boys or the Virgin boys or the QN boys once Dixon is finished...
Just remember that everyone that gives you advice is tainted by their own experience. Those with degrees will say do it ,those without will say you don't need one. To me all you need is an out when someone pulls the plug and you have a young family and no money. Think it over and then buy yourself a newsagency! GOOD LUCK WHICH EVER WAY YOU GO>....
Just remember that everyone that gives you advice is tainted by their own experience. Those with degrees will say do it ,those without will say you don't need one. To me all you need is an out when someone pulls the plug and you have a young family and no money. Think it over and then buy yourself a newsagency! GOOD LUCK WHICH EVER WAY YOU GO>....
Most important of all is to have another means of paying the bills when you are sitting in Darwin or Kunnanara waiting to see if you will be hired at the end of next month , or when you are just plain out of work ,which will probably happen to you at some stage.
Bar work ,labouring ,driving etc not a career but at least you can eat.
Now where is my taxi licence ?
Bar work ,labouring ,driving etc not a career but at least you can eat.
Now where is my taxi licence ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: CHINA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys thanks for those suggestions. I will definately do a degree course of some sort later on after I completing my CPL, ATPL, and PPL
I believe a degree might be useful for me in the long run. If everything goes wrong I can always work in the aviation industry other than flying!
I believe a degree might be useful for me in the long run. If everything goes wrong I can always work in the aviation industry other than flying!
It's difficult to give accurate advice without sounding pessimistic. There has been a lot of good advice given in response to you questions, take note of it and don't waste the benefit of their experience. It will be difficult perhaps for you to listen to their words through your enthusiasm and desire to be a pilot.
Have you thought about working in the aviation industry in other than a flying role before completing/starting your licences? It will give you a better idea of the industry before you commit huge sums of money.
Maybe just start with the PPL. It will give you an idea without the bills. You can live a long time on the money you will spend on CPL/ATPL/Multi/Instructor Rating.
Only 30% of commercial pilots in Australia maintain their licences and continue flying, ie. 70% don't make a career in the aviation industry or do much beyond getting their licences and they all started with the same ambitions as you. The competition is still stiff for jobs among the others, mostly part time jobs you will be able to get.
Don't discout flying for the military, it's probably the best start you will get, training is free and you get paid. Some recognition of military flying is available.
Read all the replies again. When you have an engine failure in flight you need to recognise the problem and do something about it, not ignore it.
Don't let it happen to your career. You can't get an ATPL until you are 21 and have 1500 hours. Don't rush it. Enjoy the flying for its own sake, learn about the industry and then make a career out of it. The industry will improve, but it too will take time and opportunities will become available.
Best wishes.
Have you thought about working in the aviation industry in other than a flying role before completing/starting your licences? It will give you a better idea of the industry before you commit huge sums of money.
Maybe just start with the PPL. It will give you an idea without the bills. You can live a long time on the money you will spend on CPL/ATPL/Multi/Instructor Rating.
Only 30% of commercial pilots in Australia maintain their licences and continue flying, ie. 70% don't make a career in the aviation industry or do much beyond getting their licences and they all started with the same ambitions as you. The competition is still stiff for jobs among the others, mostly part time jobs you will be able to get.
Don't discout flying for the military, it's probably the best start you will get, training is free and you get paid. Some recognition of military flying is available.
Read all the replies again. When you have an engine failure in flight you need to recognise the problem and do something about it, not ignore it.
Don't let it happen to your career. You can't get an ATPL until you are 21 and have 1500 hours. Don't rush it. Enjoy the flying for its own sake, learn about the industry and then make a career out of it. The industry will improve, but it too will take time and opportunities will become available.
Best wishes.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: GA - Australia
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excellent advice there Stevie. I agree - you should go back and read all the posts and then for a minute try and take those "I want to fly a boeing blinkers off" and try to make an educated decision. I remember thinking when people used to say the odd negative thing that "they are just bitter because they haven't made it" but as time goes on I think back and say "gee that bloke was right hey...god!". Thats not to say that I'm giving up - the opposite. I just wish that I'd listened more closely.
Best of luck. It really is the toughest of industries.
Best of luck. It really is the toughest of industries.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: CHINA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have read over and over suggestions people have given
Thanks everyone, as I have stated, I will take each step bit by bit and let the flying do the talking. I will keep everyone posted on how I go on the interview with RMIT next week.
Thanks everyone, as I have stated, I will take each step bit by bit and let the flying do the talking. I will keep everyone posted on how I go on the interview with RMIT next week.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My advise to you is to do a Bach of Aviation degree somewhere. There are about 17 Uni's that do it in Aus. All are different - some specialise in management, some in science etc. This will give you ATPL subjects as well as a Degree if things go pear shaped (e.g. if you lost an eye). Also you will be able to compete with all the other tertiary educated pilots out there.
Someone mentioned roller coaster and they're right. Aviation is cyclic with the economy and rate of success corelates with when you were born. For example, if you had all the qual's and hours in, say, 1992 you would be stuffed because we were in the middle of the recesion we had to have. Now in 2001 we are in another trough. However, my flying school buddies say that next years intake will be very small due to the Ansett collapse (school leavers choosing another career) which is good for you because in 2-3 years when you have your qual's, the economy will be up again and you will have less competition. Good Luck!
Someone mentioned roller coaster and they're right. Aviation is cyclic with the economy and rate of success corelates with when you were born. For example, if you had all the qual's and hours in, say, 1992 you would be stuffed because we were in the middle of the recesion we had to have. Now in 2001 we are in another trough. However, my flying school buddies say that next years intake will be very small due to the Ansett collapse (school leavers choosing another career) which is good for you because in 2-3 years when you have your qual's, the economy will be up again and you will have less competition. Good Luck!
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Perth
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got to agree to 123.40, the degree in business always gives you something to fall back on, but while you are doing this it may be best to keep it all in perspective and remember that if it is your dream to fly then go for it.
I have seen a lot of people who have a good, secure job that pays well but also bores them out of their mind and destroys their soul. Is it worth it to go to work each day to a job you hate working with people who are walking corpses to be financially secure? - there are no doubt a lot of Pilots without jobs who would say yes to this but would they say so after sitting at a desk day after day in a job they hate?
I have seen a lot of people who have a good, secure job that pays well but also bores them out of their mind and destroys their soul. Is it worth it to go to work each day to a job you hate working with people who are walking corpses to be financially secure? - there are no doubt a lot of Pilots without jobs who would say yes to this but would they say so after sitting at a desk day after day in a job they hate?