The Future Of Ansett, Post Election?
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The Future Of Ansett, Post Election?
This thread is NOT anti Ansett or pro Ansett either, just wondered now that the election is over and the Government has been returned, what are your thoughts on the future of Ansett?
Will the Government now go back on its word and provide tax payer assistance to Ansett?
Or will it survive anyway, without any such assistance?
Or will it be wound up?
Also I am hoping to find out what people really think WILL happen, which may not of course be the same as what you WANT to happen.........
Will the Government now go back on its word and provide tax payer assistance to Ansett?
Or will it survive anyway, without any such assistance?
Or will it be wound up?
Also I am hoping to find out what people really think WILL happen, which may not of course be the same as what you WANT to happen.........
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The picture is too hazy to predict any outcome at this stage.
The wild card in the pack could be a deal between SQ and DJ.
The Fox/Lew bid of about $400M appears to be a joke or publicity stunt and the creditors may favour liquidation if no other offers are made.
Most of the pilots have now lost faith in the administators and are considering legal action to have them replaced.
Under the present arrangements the travelling public appear to be shunning Ansett.
The first AN/KD service back to LT from ML departed with 3 pax.
The network average loads need to increase by 50% (from 42% to 63%) to financially breakeven at the current yield levels.
Their is talk Peter Stainley (ex QF) may become more involved with AN marketing.
The support for (Capt) Trevor Jensen who has joined ? AN after leaving ?? NZ is mixed. Some are of the view that he was 'on the bridge as the ship sunk' and did nothing.
Trevors handling of the B767 grounding when things started to go belly up is another issue and some feel he has little to offer.
The wild card in the pack could be a deal between SQ and DJ.
The Fox/Lew bid of about $400M appears to be a joke or publicity stunt and the creditors may favour liquidation if no other offers are made.
Most of the pilots have now lost faith in the administators and are considering legal action to have them replaced.
Under the present arrangements the travelling public appear to be shunning Ansett.
The first AN/KD service back to LT from ML departed with 3 pax.
The network average loads need to increase by 50% (from 42% to 63%) to financially breakeven at the current yield levels.
Their is talk Peter Stainley (ex QF) may become more involved with AN marketing.
The support for (Capt) Trevor Jensen who has joined ? AN after leaving ?? NZ is mixed. Some are of the view that he was 'on the bridge as the ship sunk' and did nothing.
Trevors handling of the B767 grounding when things started to go belly up is another issue and some feel he has little to offer.
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The truckie and shopkeeper bid will wither on the vine.
The two marks will be subject to legal action from either the ANstaff bid group or the AN staff as a whole or even both groups.
The AN situation is a complete mess and had no other outcome other than liquidation once the original administrators were bundled out by the ACTU.
By biting and arguing with the hand that held out some hope of passenger funded payout, the ACTU and the two marks and, sorry to say, the AN staff, have lost all creditability with the public.
The sooner the whole sorry mess is liquidated the better. Remember, the longer the two marks play airlines, the less is in the kitty for staff entitlements.
The two marks will be subject to legal action from either the ANstaff bid group or the AN staff as a whole or even both groups.
The AN situation is a complete mess and had no other outcome other than liquidation once the original administrators were bundled out by the ACTU.
By biting and arguing with the hand that held out some hope of passenger funded payout, the ACTU and the two marks and, sorry to say, the AN staff, have lost all creditability with the public.
The sooner the whole sorry mess is liquidated the better. Remember, the longer the two marks play airlines, the less is in the kitty for staff entitlements.
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ozoilfield
Bullseye again.
As usual it will be the legal buzzards that will wind up with whats left.
Enter Gordon and Slater stage left.
Hope Anderesens Professional Liability is paid up.
Being a Master of the Universe does have its downside.
Tom Wolfes book and the Greek Heroics should be an examinable in these disciplines.
Bullseye again.
As usual it will be the legal buzzards that will wind up with whats left.
Enter Gordon and Slater stage left.
Hope Anderesens Professional Liability is paid up.
Being a Master of the Universe does have its downside.
Tom Wolfes book and the Greek Heroics should be an examinable in these disciplines.
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I ask the question, are any of the above posts from ansett employees or are they from people who want ansett out of the way so it dosn't upset their own apple carts if it is a goer! Lets face it, there will be a lot of pressure on dixon to change work practices in the future for Qantas to stay competitive.
And as for DJ,??????
And as for DJ,??????
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Since the Minister for QN has returned one would expect that whatever Dixon wants will happen. In this case he wants one of the other airlines gone. If AN goes as expected then the chapter will finally be closed although I would expect a very limited payout if I was an AN person. It is also in DJs interest for AN to go so they can get the most out of a hurried float in a few months. Whatever is going to happen there won't be much support from the government on prior form...
Lame
It appears your thread has been hijacked so far by some very bitter people.
My response to your question is that I believe the Lew/Fox bid will proceed as planned, and a new operator with nice new aircraft will arise from the ashes. These men have the political, financial and business clout required, and mean to make a heap of dollars by expanding their current empires. Indeed I think they will focus on their nice new airbuses and seat toys to therefore capture the general traveling public and business flyers, as have Emirates, Singapore and Malaysian Airlines. That is, provided they keep a safe operating record.
The current flying operations of AN are just to keep the AOCs active and maintain a viable skeleton operation for the sale and subsequent strategic changes. So those who criticize it as not working very well have only a small viewpoint. Like sharemarkets and property, their value is shattered by poor business confidence so it is essential not to cease operations.
The Government support for entitlement should stand because Howard has said so, and Lew/Fox have moved on that premise.
It appears your thread has been hijacked so far by some very bitter people.
My response to your question is that I believe the Lew/Fox bid will proceed as planned, and a new operator with nice new aircraft will arise from the ashes. These men have the political, financial and business clout required, and mean to make a heap of dollars by expanding their current empires. Indeed I think they will focus on their nice new airbuses and seat toys to therefore capture the general traveling public and business flyers, as have Emirates, Singapore and Malaysian Airlines. That is, provided they keep a safe operating record.
The current flying operations of AN are just to keep the AOCs active and maintain a viable skeleton operation for the sale and subsequent strategic changes. So those who criticize it as not working very well have only a small viewpoint. Like sharemarkets and property, their value is shattered by poor business confidence so it is essential not to cease operations.
The Government support for entitlement should stand because Howard has said so, and Lew/Fox have moved on that premise.
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Whilst 'balance sheet bozo's' keep trying to run a business as a balance sheet only there is not much hope. The clever ones initially refused to authorise a small cheque (less than $500) to pay the regulators statutory fee for the renewal of an AOC. Even a senior advisor (mentioned in Skyhawks post) has been heard to say "tell them (the regulator) to get stuffed"
So much for business principle and knowledge
ding
So much for business principle and knowledge
ding
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Lame:- Thanks, mate, just as I was beginning to believe that the ray of light in the tunnel wasn't a train coming the other way, up pops this thread and destroys all my illusions again. There may be a lot of truth in OzOilfield and Gaunty's posts, but they sure as Hell don't do much for AN staff morale.
It's probably a good thing that She Who Must Be Obeyed won't tell me where she's hidden all sharp objects!!!
Regards to all, realism isn't all it's cracked up to be,
TheNightOwl.
It's probably a good thing that She Who Must Be Obeyed won't tell me where she's hidden all sharp objects!!!
Regards to all, realism isn't all it's cracked up to be,
TheNightOwl.
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Roller,
is fantasyland stuff. Whilst this may be the wish of many, I feel it's not going to happen simply because the odds are against. If only it were that simple.
Also, quoting 'stars' such as Singapore and MAS doesn't add much to your case as SQ are suffering at the moment and MH haven't turned a profit for a few years now and are cutting back significantly.
Ansett has too millstones hanging around its neck to stay afloat much longer, sad to say.
a new operator with nice new aircraft will arise from the ashes
Also, quoting 'stars' such as Singapore and MAS doesn't add much to your case as SQ are suffering at the moment and MH haven't turned a profit for a few years now and are cutting back significantly.
Ansett has too millstones hanging around its neck to stay afloat much longer, sad to say.
Evertonian
The Fox/Lew bid, for me, is perhaps one of the greatest shams in aviation history. Engineering MUST be a core assett for any airline & to go ahead without engineering is plain stupid. Also, how long do they think they can get 29 brand new aircraft at cheap lease rates? If the industry picks up, the price will skyrocket.
I still think it was all an election stunt to try & get fatty past the post, but it failed. It will probably fall through now & little Johnny will get the blame anyway.
If it does get up, I suspect that we will see a few months of AN2 & then another collapse will ensue. From this, DJ/SQ will probably announce a tie up & lease the old AN terminals that Fox & Lew have managed to keep.
I still think it was all an election stunt to try & get fatty past the post, but it failed. It will probably fall through now & little Johnny will get the blame anyway.
If it does get up, I suspect that we will see a few months of AN2 & then another collapse will ensue. From this, DJ/SQ will probably announce a tie up & lease the old AN terminals that Fox & Lew have managed to keep.
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As Buster suggested they might keep it running for a while get the terminals and a keep the 10 or so planes running, get the freight part up and running and then sell or close down the passenger business to Singapore DJ. Fox/Lew then end up with the terminals and the freight operation.
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TheNightOwl,
I was, as I said, just trying to find out what PPRuNers "think" will happen to Ansett, now that the election is out of the way, nothing else.....
However, sadly for Ansett, I think that the posts you mentioned are probably correct.
Best regards,
"lame"
I was, as I said, just trying to find out what PPRuNers "think" will happen to Ansett, now that the election is out of the way, nothing else.....
However, sadly for Ansett, I think that the posts you mentioned are probably correct.
Best regards,
"lame"
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You're right on the money Buster. Beazley made all the bull$**** promises in the world to the ex ANstaff and not that it's a big surprise, he didn't get elected. So as you have correctly put it, John Howard will be left holding the bag. I just hope for the sake of all involved in this dilemma that the Libs can put their collective heads together and achieve some resolution to this mess. I'm more than aware that all the bleeding hearts will now jump in and say that it was Howard that should have stopped the collapse of AN in the first place but really people.............a scapegoats a scapegoats a scapegoats. Lay off the govt. Deep down I think most of you realise that there was little to nothing that the liberal govt. could do towards the situation without setting a massive precedence and perhaps shooting themselves in the foot. And before you bag the crap out of my thoughts bare in mind that the political leader you bag may be the very man that drags AN out of the depths of depression that it currently wallows in.
Thats my 5 ......better make that 10 cents worth
Onya.
Thats my 5 ......better make that 10 cents worth
Onya.
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One would hope that the new ansett will go ahead regardless of what the goverment will do (regarding the $195 ). If its future is that sensitive well then, even I am getting concerned.
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I think that the whole thing is very convoluted and a hell of a mess.
The first step is that the administrators have to present the offers to a creditors committee. It would appear that whilst a formal binding offer is yet to be presented on behalf of the ANStaff consortium, the Administrators would in my opinion have a few problems if they were to reject it.
The creditors committee then having evaluated the offers would either concur with the administrators recommendation or alternativley present their own recommendation to the next meeting of all the creditors.
Given that the largest number of creditors by sheer numbers and not by value are current and/or former staff members, the voting at the meeting of all creditors, I would suggest would be very robust. I would not predict the outcome.
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: rpt2 ]
The first step is that the administrators have to present the offers to a creditors committee. It would appear that whilst a formal binding offer is yet to be presented on behalf of the ANStaff consortium, the Administrators would in my opinion have a few problems if they were to reject it.
The creditors committee then having evaluated the offers would either concur with the administrators recommendation or alternativley present their own recommendation to the next meeting of all the creditors.
Given that the largest number of creditors by sheer numbers and not by value are current and/or former staff members, the voting at the meeting of all creditors, I would suggest would be very robust. I would not predict the outcome.
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: rpt2 ]
Nunc est bibendum
Anyone else get the feeling that there is MUCH more to this than meets the eye?
Why do I get the impression that a few of the major players have ulteria motives?
What do the AN staff want out of all this?
It ain't over untill it's over but I get the impression that it is going to drag out to no ones benefit except the legal eagles as Gaunty and others have already pointed out!
Why do I get the impression that a few of the major players have ulteria motives?
What do the AN staff want out of all this?
It ain't over untill it's over but I get the impression that it is going to drag out to no ones benefit except the legal eagles as Gaunty and others have already pointed out!
Evertonian
Some of you, from a particular year, have a low regard for other union members from a particular time. It will be the same again sadly, as the sheep are once again being led to the slaughterhouse by the ACTU. The proxy forms has given the ACTU the most power over the administrators, as they hold the lions share of creditors signatures.
Again, I feel a "manufactured" enmity between those that fly, and those on the ground will be exposed again. This will be because the sheep hold no sway & are told what to think. The autonomous pilots group, as I read, are trying to dump the administrators. Mark my words, the ACTU will come out again & belittle the pilot body for whatever reason, but mainly for giving the sheep a shred of hope. Oh, and if anyone still wonders what I am...Baaaa!!
Again, I feel a "manufactured" enmity between those that fly, and those on the ground will be exposed again. This will be because the sheep hold no sway & are told what to think. The autonomous pilots group, as I read, are trying to dump the administrators. Mark my words, the ACTU will come out again & belittle the pilot body for whatever reason, but mainly for giving the sheep a shred of hope. Oh, and if anyone still wonders what I am...Baaaa!!
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Don't get me wrong guys.
I'm not anti or pro Ansett, just been there and done that over what seems like a thousand years in this business with a never ending panoply of adventurers, administrators and dreamers.
To a man they all know better, what to do next and have an eerie attraction to "mad hatters" and other "Alice in Wonderland" characters.
They are mostly always, stark staring naked.
The administrators have of course the right to do whatever they feel is possible to preserve and protect the remaining assets whilst they sort out the mess.
Their major obligation is not to make it any worse than it was, ie. have less to distribute than they started with.
The AN staff would be a major creditor and therefore have major rights and entitlements.
If they were not truly consulted and advised of the downside risks associated by the IMHO dubious actions in regard to Ansett2Marks then who is liable for a shortfall.
The game that is being played by others with their assets (entitlements) is very dangerous and has all the hallmarks of winding up as they usually do.
The AN staff (the little guy with family, dog, car and mortgage repayments) will as usual wind up with a mouthfull of feathers and an earful of platitudes.
"We have vigourously pursued...blah, blah, blah, ...... but have been unable to succesfully blah, blah..... secure a viable blah blah......... business going forward (the current "in" term)......we regret..... the remaining assets (we flicked off the really valuable bits to our mates) will now be disposed of in an orderly blah blah...the Government despite assurances blah blah....and after deducting our administration fees we expect to be able to distribute blah blah...."
Ask the hard questions at the Creditors meeting and don't settle for weasel words.
A bird in the hand is ALWAYS worth more than two in the bush, especially in Melb.
I'm not anti or pro Ansett, just been there and done that over what seems like a thousand years in this business with a never ending panoply of adventurers, administrators and dreamers.
To a man they all know better, what to do next and have an eerie attraction to "mad hatters" and other "Alice in Wonderland" characters.
They are mostly always, stark staring naked.
The administrators have of course the right to do whatever they feel is possible to preserve and protect the remaining assets whilst they sort out the mess.
Their major obligation is not to make it any worse than it was, ie. have less to distribute than they started with.
The AN staff would be a major creditor and therefore have major rights and entitlements.
If they were not truly consulted and advised of the downside risks associated by the IMHO dubious actions in regard to Ansett2Marks then who is liable for a shortfall.
The game that is being played by others with their assets (entitlements) is very dangerous and has all the hallmarks of winding up as they usually do.
The AN staff (the little guy with family, dog, car and mortgage repayments) will as usual wind up with a mouthfull of feathers and an earful of platitudes.
"We have vigourously pursued...blah, blah, blah, ...... but have been unable to succesfully blah, blah..... secure a viable blah blah......... business going forward (the current "in" term)......we regret..... the remaining assets (we flicked off the really valuable bits to our mates) will now be disposed of in an orderly blah blah...the Government despite assurances blah blah....and after deducting our administration fees we expect to be able to distribute blah blah...."
Ask the hard questions at the Creditors meeting and don't settle for weasel words.
A bird in the hand is ALWAYS worth more than two in the bush, especially in Melb.
short flights long nights
Gaunty, I think you have it in one. I have been wondering for weeks as to why the bulk of the AN staff seem happy to stand around and watch their entitlements, or what is left of them, being thrown out the window. The whole thing seems to be one big,unholy mess.
