Full Steam to Virgin Blue
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Full Steam to Virgin Blue
I wouldn't be writing off VB at all!
The airline industry has bottomed out of the slowdown that was starting to be experienced in the second half of 2001, and made worse by Sept 11.
This is certainly true for the Asia-Pacific region;the least effected by the terror attacks.
People ARE prepared to fly again.
The strength that VB has over a AN II/III/IV is that it has a 'sister' airline in Virgin Atlantic.
VS may be going through a bit of trouble at the moment due to their heavy exposure to Trans-Atlantic routes. But airlines HAVE to roll with the punches.
My guess is that VS will start coming down to Singapore, Bangkok and will meet up with VB who brought the punters up from Oz.
This will ensure complete Virgin group carriage of punters along the VERY lucrative Kangaroo Route.
AN does not have the ability to match that at present.Period.
Further, VB have a winning product that was going places BEFORE AN went belly-up.
And VB are looking to operate into the reasonably heavily populated but under-serviced south-east pacific region."Backyard International" if you will.
I wouldn't be writing off VB at all!!
Seasons Greetings
The airline industry has bottomed out of the slowdown that was starting to be experienced in the second half of 2001, and made worse by Sept 11.
This is certainly true for the Asia-Pacific region;the least effected by the terror attacks.
People ARE prepared to fly again.
The strength that VB has over a AN II/III/IV is that it has a 'sister' airline in Virgin Atlantic.
VS may be going through a bit of trouble at the moment due to their heavy exposure to Trans-Atlantic routes. But airlines HAVE to roll with the punches.
My guess is that VS will start coming down to Singapore, Bangkok and will meet up with VB who brought the punters up from Oz.
This will ensure complete Virgin group carriage of punters along the VERY lucrative Kangaroo Route.
AN does not have the ability to match that at present.Period.
Further, VB have a winning product that was going places BEFORE AN went belly-up.
And VB are looking to operate into the reasonably heavily populated but under-serviced south-east pacific region."Backyard International" if you will.
I wouldn't be writing off VB at all!!
Seasons Greetings
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Industry insiders say VS will be lucky to survive the first half of 2002. Loads down by up to 30%! SQ dont want to even talk to the Giggling Pom after his little check ripping episode.
$5 tickets are a disgrace and just another instance of VB hypocrasy. For an "airline" that wasn't going to get involved in a price war according to Godfrey they seem to have forgotten their own rules. VB have a well worn path to the ACCC but they cry foul if they cant do exactly what they want.
$5 tickets are stupid and unsustainable as we all know it creates a false impression in the public that they should fly every time for $5.
All VB have done in this country is bring down wages by getting desperate people to work for peanuts and compromise air safety by starting a price war they cant win.
The sooner they fold the better.
$5 tickets are a disgrace and just another instance of VB hypocrasy. For an "airline" that wasn't going to get involved in a price war according to Godfrey they seem to have forgotten their own rules. VB have a well worn path to the ACCC but they cry foul if they cant do exactly what they want.
$5 tickets are stupid and unsustainable as we all know it creates a false impression in the public that they should fly every time for $5.
All VB have done in this country is bring down wages by getting desperate people to work for peanuts and compromise air safety by starting a price war they cant win.
The sooner they fold the better.
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Unabungler, I am surprised at the content and lack of knowledge in your posting.
It appears you are not aware that Virgin Atlantic (VS) offer 3 departures per day between LHR and SIN using a code share arrangement in economy only with SQ.
If you wander out to SYD International you will see a daily VS arrival from KUL. Yes, VS have a code share with MH between KUL and SYD. Any VS pax for SYD from LHR travel from LHR to KUL on the VS a/c and transfer to a MH a/c for the last sector to SYD.
When AN operated to HKG there was an arrangement between AN and VS. Large numbers of pax travelled SYD to LHR over HKG using AN and VS. With the demise of AN my guess is that VS are missing the business in the downturn.
Your statement 'the VERY lucrative Kangaroo route' will have management and most crew rolling in the aisles. You may be surprised to learn that some fares from S.E Asia to LHR are more expensive than from some Aust Ports.
There may be some surprises in store from AN regarding international services after the 1st Feb. All the AN international traffic rights including those to the U.K via both SIN and BKK have been retained.
It appears you are not aware that Virgin Atlantic (VS) offer 3 departures per day between LHR and SIN using a code share arrangement in economy only with SQ.
If you wander out to SYD International you will see a daily VS arrival from KUL. Yes, VS have a code share with MH between KUL and SYD. Any VS pax for SYD from LHR travel from LHR to KUL on the VS a/c and transfer to a MH a/c for the last sector to SYD.
When AN operated to HKG there was an arrangement between AN and VS. Large numbers of pax travelled SYD to LHR over HKG using AN and VS. With the demise of AN my guess is that VS are missing the business in the downturn.
Your statement 'the VERY lucrative Kangaroo route' will have management and most crew rolling in the aisles. You may be surprised to learn that some fares from S.E Asia to LHR are more expensive than from some Aust Ports.
There may be some surprises in store from AN regarding international services after the 1st Feb. All the AN international traffic rights including those to the U.K via both SIN and BKK have been retained.
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Alpha 41. Also heard Singapore Airlines not too impressed with Fox's "dropping the pants" incident either.
Maybe they will just throw all their money the way of the big white Rat !!!
Re: the $5 fares read like a Brett Lee bouncer to a new batsman:
"Welcome to the crease Mateee!"
[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: Whiskery ]</p>
Maybe they will just throw all their money the way of the big white Rat !!!
Re: the $5 fares read like a Brett Lee bouncer to a new batsman:
"Welcome to the crease Mateee!"
[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: Whiskery ]</p>
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
$5 FARES <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> ....and Ansett hasn't started operations under FLEW Syn., yet. Still, they said they expected to lose money for the first 12 months.
I wonder what Brett and Dickie have got waiting for them on Feb. 1st??? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Don't complain about it, grab the cheap tickets while they're available.
Can't quite follow your reasoning here Alpha41,
"All VB have done in this country is bring down wages by getting desperate people (eg. who???} to work for peanuts and compromise air safety (how???} by starting a price war they cant win" (I don't believe $5 tickets are a "price war" - it's an obviously unsustainable figure - however, I guess VB's Marketing section believes it's worth it)
I wonder what Brett and Dickie have got waiting for them on Feb. 1st??? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Don't complain about it, grab the cheap tickets while they're available.
Can't quite follow your reasoning here Alpha41,
"All VB have done in this country is bring down wages by getting desperate people (eg. who???} to work for peanuts and compromise air safety (how???} by starting a price war they cant win" (I don't believe $5 tickets are a "price war" - it's an obviously unsustainable figure - however, I guess VB's Marketing section believes it's worth it)
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YIPEE.$5 Virgin fares.A lot of commuting Tesna drivers will be very happy that deal.lets hope its here to stay.
Where,s my mate Godfrey?.Has he been told to go stand in the corner and face the wall for been naughty,or has Mr Hattener been deemed to be a better Winger <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> .
Where,s my mate Godfrey?.Has he been told to go stand in the corner and face the wall for been naughty,or has Mr Hattener been deemed to be a better Winger <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> .
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KAPTAIN M
Ansett and the dispute aside surely you can`t believe VB hasn`t lowered the conditions of pilots in this country.
QF Cabin Managers make more than VB F/Os.There would be many more examples I`m sure.
What about when you were a young bloke Kaptain,just starting out in the revered profession,did you pay for your endorsement?
Speaking from experience at AN,we used to have 3 monthly sims,recurrent training days and CRM,reval etc.Does VB only have one sim a year?Does their programme include LOFT or is it a cheap American model?
Just questions,but if elements of truth I think VB has eroded conditions for pilots and possibly even standards.
Ansett and the dispute aside surely you can`t believe VB hasn`t lowered the conditions of pilots in this country.
QF Cabin Managers make more than VB F/Os.There would be many more examples I`m sure.
What about when you were a young bloke Kaptain,just starting out in the revered profession,did you pay for your endorsement?
Speaking from experience at AN,we used to have 3 monthly sims,recurrent training days and CRM,reval etc.Does VB only have one sim a year?Does their programme include LOFT or is it a cheap American model?
Just questions,but if elements of truth I think VB has eroded conditions for pilots and possibly even standards.
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Slightly off topic.
Overheard at a party attended by some very senior VB honcho's...nice guys.
Interviewing for VB window seats.
Employer: Have you been through the QF process?
Prospect: Yes
Employer: What happened?
Prospect: (Hangs Head) Failed the Psych. Test.
Employer: No problem, we consider that to be a plus.
Apologies to the gentleman for betraying confidences, but it made me p!ss my pants.
GO VB.....OI OI OI
Overheard at a party attended by some very senior VB honcho's...nice guys.
Interviewing for VB window seats.
Employer: Have you been through the QF process?
Prospect: Yes
Employer: What happened?
Prospect: (Hangs Head) Failed the Psych. Test.
Employer: No problem, we consider that to be a plus.
Apologies to the gentleman for betraying confidences, but it made me p!ss my pants.
GO VB.....OI OI OI
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
BD69 - Virgin Blue most certainly capitalised on the opportunity to employ Australian pilots, some of whom are "89'ers", IN Australia, on salaries less than Ansett and QF.
Impulse kicked the ball off in "pure" domestic-Australia ops, but preceded by Cathay and Cathay Cargo.
Singapore Airlines has similarly followed suit, basing pilots in Australia at less than they pay their expats based in SIN.
Personally, I know several pilots who have left (much) better paying positions overseas - a couple of those pilots were working in the same company as I - for the opportunity to return home to Oz. So the definition of "conditions" is not entirely related to $$$'s - LIFESTYLE is a major factor for many.
As a sprog F/O with Ansett, and for the next 3 or 4 years, I also received considerably LESS than senior F/A's in the same company.
On the endorsement issue - yes, I paid for my G.A. endorsements, renewals, and I/R initial and renewals. Obviously NOT with AN, however we were frozen on type for a specified period.
I entered into a sizeable "bank guarantee" with SQ, to gain a new type rating there, and am currently paid an "end of contract bonus" when I finish my time here, even tho' I joined rated and current.
Unless EVERY pilot agreed to NOT pay for his endorsement, the system of having pilots pay for their own rating will remain - and as we are all aware, "pilots eat their own!".
Whilst I was with AN, we were required to do 3-monthly sims. However, since leaving - and having now worked for 3 other national carriers - I can assure you that they do only 2 sims a year, 1 Training, and 1 Check.
Maybe Ansett pilots NEED more!!
Certainly VB pilots work for less $$$'s than AN and QF domestic pilots - however many were (unofficially, of course) black-balled from joining, following that year. Perhaps, had they been accepted, the current situation might never have arisen, so maybe your question is better directed at some of the APA "executives".
If you know the management pilots of Virgin Blue, you will know that Standards and Safety never has been, nor ever would be, an issue with them!
[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
Impulse kicked the ball off in "pure" domestic-Australia ops, but preceded by Cathay and Cathay Cargo.
Singapore Airlines has similarly followed suit, basing pilots in Australia at less than they pay their expats based in SIN.
Personally, I know several pilots who have left (much) better paying positions overseas - a couple of those pilots were working in the same company as I - for the opportunity to return home to Oz. So the definition of "conditions" is not entirely related to $$$'s - LIFESTYLE is a major factor for many.
As a sprog F/O with Ansett, and for the next 3 or 4 years, I also received considerably LESS than senior F/A's in the same company.
On the endorsement issue - yes, I paid for my G.A. endorsements, renewals, and I/R initial and renewals. Obviously NOT with AN, however we were frozen on type for a specified period.
I entered into a sizeable "bank guarantee" with SQ, to gain a new type rating there, and am currently paid an "end of contract bonus" when I finish my time here, even tho' I joined rated and current.
Unless EVERY pilot agreed to NOT pay for his endorsement, the system of having pilots pay for their own rating will remain - and as we are all aware, "pilots eat their own!".
Whilst I was with AN, we were required to do 3-monthly sims. However, since leaving - and having now worked for 3 other national carriers - I can assure you that they do only 2 sims a year, 1 Training, and 1 Check.
Maybe Ansett pilots NEED more!!
Certainly VB pilots work for less $$$'s than AN and QF domestic pilots - however many were (unofficially, of course) black-balled from joining, following that year. Perhaps, had they been accepted, the current situation might never have arisen, so maybe your question is better directed at some of the APA "executives".
If you know the management pilots of Virgin Blue, you will know that Standards and Safety never has been, nor ever would be, an issue with them!
[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
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Sorry Skyhawk but VS don't fly to KL either, the flights ex LHR to MEL & SYD are on MAS aircraft. VS do however have landing slots at both SYD & BNE on a daily basis when (and if) they want to use them. We all expected this to happen when they put the B744 on the HKG, but nothing yet!!
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Great for airline staff McGoo.Fly out with VB come home on staff travel with your own airline.
Commuting mates in QF/AN think its great,and the scenery on VB,better than the mall on a summers day.
Commuting mates in QF/AN think its great,and the scenery on VB,better than the mall on a summers day.
