717's to Launceston
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: somewhere in Australia
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DEFJET,
It is my understanding that the Federation is made up of Pilots, so when you say 'ask the Federation' what do you mean....
Its like saying ask yourself, that is if you are a member.
If you don't like whats happening get involved and do something about it!
It is my understanding that the Federation is made up of Pilots, so when you say 'ask the Federation' what do you mean....
Its like saying ask yourself, that is if you are a member.
If you don't like whats happening get involved and do something about it!
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Good to see a lively discussion beginning on this topic, the essence of the situation is that it is not a base closure it is a base relocation with no reduction in establishment and no one losing position or status therefore the numbers and positions that were allocated through the bid process still apply.
Yes you are right the pilots are the ones that are responsible for the content of an EBA the biggest problem is that the pilots trying to formulate the EBA usually don't have the background or industrial experience to fully understand all the issues and therefore rely heavily on the Feds for the content for the document. This process tends to leave many holes in the clauses inserted in the EBA. So while you may say its the pilots responsibility does the advising/consulting body not have some responsibility to make sure the document is of a sound nature?
From what I hear KD have base protection clauses in their document not sure about the others would it not have been prudent to insert some of those into the SAA/EAA/SunAA EBA's when they were formed?
Finally, It appears that the consensus of the pilot group in SAA also beleives that base protection in this case is correct, just got to get the advisor/consultant to realise yes it is the pilots that are reponsible for their own destiny.
Yes you are right the pilots are the ones that are responsible for the content of an EBA the biggest problem is that the pilots trying to formulate the EBA usually don't have the background or industrial experience to fully understand all the issues and therefore rely heavily on the Feds for the content for the document. This process tends to leave many holes in the clauses inserted in the EBA. So while you may say its the pilots responsibility does the advising/consulting body not have some responsibility to make sure the document is of a sound nature?
From what I hear KD have base protection clauses in their document not sure about the others would it not have been prudent to insert some of those into the SAA/EAA/SunAA EBA's when they were formed?
Finally, It appears that the consensus of the pilot group in SAA also beleives that base protection in this case is correct, just got to get the advisor/consultant to realise yes it is the pilots that are reponsible for their own destiny.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Defjet, seems you're the only one in Aus that can interpret an award. Us poor miserable scum don't have an opinion worth listening to; that is to someone who has so much to lose out of the re-shuffle at Southern.
The seniority clause whilst it may not spell it out has enough industrial precedent to force a total re-assignment of equipment if push comes to shove. Yes DJ, then everyone gets a bid.
Just lookin' forward to those chilly CB mornings.
The seniority clause whilst it may not spell it out has enough industrial precedent to force a total re-assignment of equipment if push comes to shove. Yes DJ, then everyone gets a bid.
Just lookin' forward to those chilly CB mornings.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Well that was an interesting way to respond!
When did I say I was the only one that could interpret an award? As earlier stated the award is so full of holes it could have a B747 pass through it and not touch the sides!
Good try but your wrong, not always who it seems, keep guessing.
Not really necessary to launch into an attack on the writer, why not read the thread for what the issue is, namely that the Feds waded into something that was a personal push of their own without consultation on a realistic level. It doesn't take much to work out that the principal officer holds such strong feelings towards those that dared to oppose the intergration of the QF Regionals, weren't you part of that rejection too Aragorn? Wasn't that rejected by the SAA guys unanamously because they didn't beleive anything good could come out of it? Yet the Feds got very testy because you dared to take a stand on an issue that they were actively pushing.
When did I say I was the only one that could interpret an award? As earlier stated the award is so full of holes it could have a B747 pass through it and not touch the sides!
Good try but your wrong, not always who it seems, keep guessing.
Not really necessary to launch into an attack on the writer, why not read the thread for what the issue is, namely that the Feds waded into something that was a personal push of their own without consultation on a realistic level. It doesn't take much to work out that the principal officer holds such strong feelings towards those that dared to oppose the intergration of the QF Regionals, weren't you part of that rejection too Aragorn? Wasn't that rejected by the SAA guys unanamously because they didn't beleive anything good could come out of it? Yet the Feds got very testy because you dared to take a stand on an issue that they were actively pushing.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I did read the thread and that's why you copped the critism. No one else has put forward their opinion as if it is irrefutable apart from yourself, let others have a say too.
I don't believe the vote by the SAA guys was unanimous on the integration issue. A few abstentions and a few against if my sources are correct.
Have an opinion but go in easy, that way we all get heard.
I don't believe the vote by the SAA guys was unanimous on the integration issue. A few abstentions and a few against if my sources are correct.
Have an opinion but go in easy, that way we all get heard.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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My humblest apologies it was not the intention to overstate the issue just to try and make organisations and individuals aware that there is always things that are dealt with well and there are times when things are dealt with poorly.
I have endeavoured to avoid any direct criticism of any particular individuals and am acutely aware of the emotion attached to this topic at the end of the day the pilots must still be aware that they make up the Union and therefore must strive to learn from past experiences and mistakes so they can all achieve what they set out to do.
Feel free to continue as you wish with relavent constructive dialogue but please don't slip into the slanging I see all too often in this forum.
I have endeavoured to avoid any direct criticism of any particular individuals and am acutely aware of the emotion attached to this topic at the end of the day the pilots must still be aware that they make up the Union and therefore must strive to learn from past experiences and mistakes so they can all achieve what they set out to do.
Feel free to continue as you wish with relavent constructive dialogue but please don't slip into the slanging I see all too often in this forum.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: MEL,VIC,AUST
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What is QF playing at? It seems at the moment that Southern and Impulse are but pawns in a savage game. Is QF doing this because of the mere fact that they can? I feel for all the people who's lives have just been turned upside down because some beancounter has realised that he can save more beans by shafting the Qantaslink guys. Are QF feeling the waters in readiness at shafting their own mainline staff? So will Southern and Impulse retrench people at their 'old ports' and then employ people in their respective 'new ports', just to have QF change their mind again in say 6 months time? Dodgy and extremely poor of QF I must say. My cousin at QF was right when he said that QF treat people very badly.......
A shame.
GTG!
A shame.
GTG!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Devonport Tasmania Australia
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GTG - The old days have been long gone - sad to say. they died a long time ago - back when TN pulled out of WNY DPO ABX and NTL.
Now it is perform or perish.
Sad - the culture is dead.
EWL
Now it is perform or perish.
Sad - the culture is dead.
EWL
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I agree GTG. QF are only doing it to their staff at southern because they can. From all accounts QF do treat their staff like pawns in a chess game. $M415 profit after tax obviously is enough for the bean-counters.
What about the notice given to the staff of Airlink and Southern: < 3 weeks. Treating people and their families so poorly doesn't engender much loyalty.
Glad its not me, too much stress.
What about the notice given to the staff of Airlink and Southern: < 3 weeks. Treating people and their families so poorly doesn't engender much loyalty.
Glad its not me, too much stress.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Aragorn. You must be joking. As far as the most recent annual profit is concerned it will not buy 2 x A330's.
The fleet/crew realignment is due to circumstances beyond QF control. Most AN crew would readily swap places with you.
The fleet/crew realignment is due to circumstances beyond QF control. Most AN crew would readily swap places with you.
