7:30 report on CVR. What do you think?
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7:30 report on CVR. What do you think?
Just saw on the 7:30 report (ABC): There is a stage show (in truth only caught the last 10 min or there abouts) touring that has actors playing flight crew (in a cockpit mock-up) saying word for word what was recorded on the CVR just before an aircraft crashed.
The show is called Charlie Victor Romeo, and was wondering if anyone else saw the programme and what their thoughts were.
I personally don't know if it is the kind of thing the gerenal public should be seeing (hearing). Sure it is of use to other aircrew, atc and those in the industry, that is the whole idea of FDR and CVR's, to learn. But the public? Doesn't seem like the type of stuff that will get them rushing to buy tickets (to fly that is).
Any comments?
The show is called Charlie Victor Romeo, and was wondering if anyone else saw the programme and what their thoughts were.
I personally don't know if it is the kind of thing the gerenal public should be seeing (hearing). Sure it is of use to other aircrew, atc and those in the industry, that is the whole idea of FDR and CVR's, to learn. But the public? Doesn't seem like the type of stuff that will get them rushing to buy tickets (to fly that is).
Any comments?
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The crew having an argument over what to do for one.....
Doesn't put at lot of faith in them as far as Joe Public is concerned.
I just think at the moment it doesn't need much to put people of flying. You only have to look at the number of parked aircraft about the place.
I seeking the view of others. Did you see the programme? And do you think it is a good thing or not?
Doesn't put at lot of faith in them as far as Joe Public is concerned.
I just think at the moment it doesn't need much to put people of flying. You only have to look at the number of parked aircraft about the place.
I seeking the view of others. Did you see the programme? And do you think it is a good thing or not?
I beg to differ.
I first heard about the play some months back and remained sceptical. I too caught the last few minutes of the article tonight.
I don't think that it will actually scare the public, it may have the obvious effect. It shows the incredible resourcefullness of human pilots under duress, without whom all the pax on board would have certainly died.
Although Joe public has a short memory with air crashes, this is one time where they can actually see the point of having a pilot up the front. Even if it stops the "but can't these fly on autopilot anyway - what do you guys actually do?" questions, it's a start.
And it's probably an insight for Joe public into why we pilots are paid the $$ we deserve. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
I first heard about the play some months back and remained sceptical. I too caught the last few minutes of the article tonight.
I don't think that it will actually scare the public, it may have the obvious effect. It shows the incredible resourcefullness of human pilots under duress, without whom all the pax on board would have certainly died.
Although Joe public has a short memory with air crashes, this is one time where they can actually see the point of having a pilot up the front. Even if it stops the "but can't these fly on autopilot anyway - what do you guys actually do?" questions, it's a start.
And it's probably an insight for Joe public into why we pilots are paid the $$ we deserve. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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The BBC ran a series called "Black Box" and it didn't put the travelling public off. I don't have a problem with it being put on as a stage play.The fact that the play is successful says a lot for how much the public is interested in what we do up front. Personnally I think someone should put the episode of "People Like Us" dealing with airline pilots on as a stage play.
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What is it with the 7.30 report that everyone only tunes in for the last couple of minutes ? Maybe channel surfing between the slots ? I only saw the few minutes as well re the Sioux City miracle.. .The show was on here a month or so ago but I didn't go due to the cost - it wasn't cheap, suspect something to do with the Aussie/U.S. exchange rate.
In answer to your Q NM, I would say that the vast majority of the GP would not go to the show unless they had an interest in, or worked in the industry, and in the case of flight crew they may even learn a thing or two. Some guy at the end, maybe the producer, said something along the lines of "It's testimony to never giving up - if something is not right then keep trying to put it right regardless of the circumstances". Or in other words "It aint over til the fat lady sings".
I also noted with interest that the USAF has contracted CVR to show their members. It must have some cred.
. .Edited - Just spotted another thread with the singing fat lady ! She's gets about that one.
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Good Attitude ]</p>
In answer to your Q NM, I would say that the vast majority of the GP would not go to the show unless they had an interest in, or worked in the industry, and in the case of flight crew they may even learn a thing or two. Some guy at the end, maybe the producer, said something along the lines of "It's testimony to never giving up - if something is not right then keep trying to put it right regardless of the circumstances". Or in other words "It aint over til the fat lady sings".
I also noted with interest that the USAF has contracted CVR to show their members. It must have some cred.
. .Edited - Just spotted another thread with the singing fat lady ! She's gets about that one.
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Good Attitude ]</p>
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mixed feelings but i enjoyed it anyway,. .general PAYING public might have a much different view than mine though.. .I don't think it is the type of "play" that should be out and about when the industry is at absolute rock bottom. we need to restore confidence in the market place not show plays on how stressful it can be in a cockpit when all hydraulic have failed and only to find out that all back up systems have gone too. Mr Joe public all of sudden feels the urge to fly, i think not.. .even if it doesn't deter people from flying because they have to, it would would make every sound /shake etc , a very disturbing feeling.Great show though but I think it should be sponsored by the airlines if there is any money left to be viewed by us. anyway that is my view.......... <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> [quote] <hr></blockquote>
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I went and saw the theatre production and give it two thumbs up for realism and absolute shock factor!
They reproduced six major incidents:. .1) ? - Incorrect altimeter setting. .2) Air Peru - static port masking over. .3) Air Force - Bird strike. .4) MD? - Icing, (with hostess chating up crew). .5) JAL? - Rear rupture of 747 bulkhead. .6) UAL 232 - Sioux City
It only went for 1.5 hrs but it felt longer!. .I dont think anyone moved from their seats the whole time (except when they crashed!). .No. 3 went for 1 min, that shocked everyone with the swiftness of something that is seemingly irrelevant.. .It's not something that you'd want to see before flying, and it REALLY MAKES YOU THINK about taking procedures and knowing everything seriously. The most frightening was the Air Peru crash, they really had no idea what was happening, poor bastards. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
I recommend anyone going to see it if they have the chance, the actors were very accurate, and it wasn't sensationalised at all.. . <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
They reproduced six major incidents:. .1) ? - Incorrect altimeter setting. .2) Air Peru - static port masking over. .3) Air Force - Bird strike. .4) MD? - Icing, (with hostess chating up crew). .5) JAL? - Rear rupture of 747 bulkhead. .6) UAL 232 - Sioux City
It only went for 1.5 hrs but it felt longer!. .I dont think anyone moved from their seats the whole time (except when they crashed!). .No. 3 went for 1 min, that shocked everyone with the swiftness of something that is seemingly irrelevant.. .It's not something that you'd want to see before flying, and it REALLY MAKES YOU THINK about taking procedures and knowing everything seriously. The most frightening was the Air Peru crash, they really had no idea what was happening, poor bastards. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
I recommend anyone going to see it if they have the chance, the actors were very accurate, and it wasn't sensationalised at all.. . <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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Thanks for the replies. I too want to see it. I think a lot can be learnt from CVRs. And watching people act out what happened in the cockpit instead of just hearing a recording has many benefits. And if JP gets a bit of an understanding of what happens up the front then I guess that it is not too bad a thing. But then again, a little knowledge.....
Sure CS, it shows just why they put humans up the front, the ability to improvise, adapt, overcome. Perfect eg. Sioux City. But the timeing?
I still have family worrying everytime I go OS. Which is a bit of a joke, I think they're at a higher risk because of the area they live in. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I guess there will be two types of thought that come out of the play. One: Thank God we have pilots up the front. It's good knowing that they are so well trained and will never give up if the sh!t hits the fan. Two: Sh!t, the sooner they get rid of those monkeys up the front and just have computers flying the better. Computers don't make mistakes!. And their mind was probably at that conclusion before seeing it.
But to put it in one word what JP needs in this industry right now: Confidence.
Will JP get that from seeing the play, I don't know, I'm not JP.
Sure CS, it shows just why they put humans up the front, the ability to improvise, adapt, overcome. Perfect eg. Sioux City. But the timeing?
I still have family worrying everytime I go OS. Which is a bit of a joke, I think they're at a higher risk because of the area they live in. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I guess there will be two types of thought that come out of the play. One: Thank God we have pilots up the front. It's good knowing that they are so well trained and will never give up if the sh!t hits the fan. Two: Sh!t, the sooner they get rid of those monkeys up the front and just have computers flying the better. Computers don't make mistakes!. And their mind was probably at that conclusion before seeing it.
But to put it in one word what JP needs in this industry right now: Confidence.
Will JP get that from seeing the play, I don't know, I'm not JP.
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Pity the actors didn’t have access to the CVR of the ****** 747 after its mid air with an IL76 over Delhi in 1996. I’m told that would make for some really interesting observations about pilots and the way they never give up.
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Transcript (pardon the pun) from the ABC website!
. .Transcript. .26/02/2002. .'Charlie Victor Bravo' offers insight into the cockpit
KERRY O'BRIEN: There was outrage in the airline industry when a New York theatre company announced its plans to re-enact on stage the recorded final minutes in the cockpit of airliners involved in fatal crashes.
But the play, Charlie Victor Romeo, based meticulously on the black box voice recordings of doomed aircraft, went ahead.
It has already won over many of its critics and was one of the big successes of the Perth International Festival.
Mick O'Donnell reports.
Note: All flight attendants, pilots, co-pilots and other airline staff in this story are all actors.
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: To fasten your seatbelt, insert the metal fitting into the buckle.
Then pull the lose end to tighten the belt.
MICK O'DONNELL: How many of us pay attention to the safety spiel from the steward at the start of the flight?
Mostly, we put our faith blindly in the hands of the crew up the pointy end of the plane.
Until - PILOT: I think it would be better for all personnel to inhale into your emergency mask.
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Please keep your heads on seatbacks and hold your babies firmly.
MICK O'DONNELL: But how do the crews really respond when catastrophe comes?
PILOT: It is about -- raise nose!
MICK O'DONNELL: JAL Flight 123.
524 passengers and crew, departs Tokyo, August '85.
A sudden rupture of an aft pressure bulkhead…
COPILOT: Power, power, power!
PILOT: I'm retracting!
MICK O'DONNELL: 520 dead.
Four survivors.
NEWSREEL: Amazingly, there were survivors.
Still, it was the worst air disaster involving a single aircraft in history.
ROBERT BERGER, CO-DIRECTOR, CHARLIE VICTOR ROMEO: They're the ones that stand between you and disaster.
They're the ones who are going to try and save your life and really, this play is about people trying to do just that, whether they're successful or not.
MICK O'DONNELL: Take Aeroperu Flight 603 out of Lima, on October 2, 1996.
CO-PILOT: Autopilot, don't put it on the autopilot, Captain.
Autopilot disconnect!
Autopilot disconnect!
MICK O'DONNELL: The captain and co-pilot, oblivious to the black box recording every word, argue over what to do when, inexplicably, their instruments stop working.
COPILOT: It seems that we have the right course.
What we don't have is air speed indicator and altitude.
MICK O'DONNELL: Unbeknownst to them, ground crew have failed to remove the tape they stuck over sensor vents while washing the plane.
The co-pilot, through the shaking of the joy stick, feels the plane is about to stall.
COPILOT: 200 of speed.
PILOT: Oh, **** .
We will stall down.
MICK O'DONNELL: But the pilot reads the opposite, the faulty indicator suggesting the plane is going too fast.
The crew at first, hide their situation from air traffic control.
CO-PILOT: Any aeroplane that could guide us at AeroPeru that may be around or somebody.
PILOT: Don't tell him anything about that.
CO-PILOT: Yes, because right now we're stalling!
PILOT: We're not stalling!
MICK O'DONNELL: Then the crew depends on air traffic control to tell them their height above the ground, their speed and heading.
AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL: Flight level is 100 plus 700 and approximate speed is 280 over the ground.
PILOT: Yeah, pert effect.
MICK O'DONNELL: Trouble is, control too is reading the plane's own false readings.
Instead of being thousands of feet up, the plane is plummeting towards the sea.
COPILOT: Should we lower the gear?
PILOT: Yeah, but what do we do with the gear?
I don't know that!
COPILOT: We're approaching water!
PILOT: I have it!
COPILOT: Pull it up.
We're going to do it right!
MICK O'DONNELL: Air Peru 603, crashed into Pacific Ocean, 70 dead.
ROBERT BERGER: To be told concretely by airline pilots that your artistic depiction of airline pilots in their work is useful to save lives by showing people this, that elevates both the rewards that you feel from doing something like this and also the sort of drive that you want to do it with.
So, in the face of September 11, to stop doing that, when people like that say it's something that's good and something that they want us to do, how could we possibly consider stopping?
MICK O'DONNELL: Since the hijacking and crashes of the four airliners in the US on September 11, the last moments of passengers and crew have gripped the public imagination - moments recorded on the black box of United Airlines flight 93 as hijackers seized control over Pennsylvania.
ON SCREEN GRAPHIC: CONTROLLER: United 93, verify 3-5-zero.
HIJACKER: Ladies and gentlemen here it's the captain, please sit down.
HIJACKER: Keep remaining sitting.
We have a bomb aboard.
CONTROLLER: Uh, calling Cleveland Centre, you're unreadable.
Say again slowly.
HIJACKER: Hi, this is the captain.
We'd like you all to remain seated.
There is a bomb aboard.
MICK O'DONNELL: Never before have we thought so much about the people in the cockpit.
We hope desperately that they are experienced, level-headed heroes and sometimes they really are.
United Airlines 232, headed for Chicago, July 19, 1989.
296 passengers and crew.
COPILOT: That is affirmative. Do you read?
PILOT: We have no hydraulics at all, so we're doing our best here.
MICK O'DONNELL: What was thought impossible had happened - an undetected crack in a fan disc in engine two shattered.
The engine exploded, raining enough shrapnel to destroy all three hydraulic systems, including the back-ups and knocking out engine four.
Suddenly the crew had no controls to fly the plane except the throttles on the surviving engines.
PILOT: We're not going to make the runway folks.
We're going to have to ditch this son of a bitch and hope for the best.
MICK O'DONNELL: But then, another impossibility.
An extraordinary coordination of the three crew and a flight instructor who happened to be on the plane, allows them to roughly steer in wavering circles.
ACTOR PLAYING AL HAINES: I didn't do this thing on my last simulator check.
COPILOT: Doh.
MICK O'DONNELL: The pilot, Al Haines, cracks jokes and somehow maintains the crew's focus as, for 40 minutes, they perform a manoeuvre never before attempted.
AL HAINES (ACTOR): We'll get this thing on the ground.
Don't worry about it.
MICK O'DONNELL: He gives them hope.
ROBERT BERGER: The only thing that they had, that they figured out how to do, was fly the aeroplane using the two engines, one on each wing, to sort of swing it left and swing it right and move in long lazy circles to the right until they sort of looped their way to the airport.
MICK O'DONNELL: The plane rolling and dipping up and down.
The crew edged it towards Sioux City.
The pilot calls in the head steward to prepare the passengers.
AL HAINES (ACTOR): Brace will be the signal.
It will be over the PA system: brace, brace, brace.
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: And that will be to evacuate?
AL HAINES: No, that will be to brace for landing and then, if you have to evacuate, you'll get the command signal to evacuate, but I really have my doubts of seeing it standing up, honey.
Good luck, sweetheart.
MICK O'DONNELL: Every word of the dialogue is just as the black box recorded it.
Miraculously, the crew lined the plane up for a crash landing at Sioux City but they have no steering, no brakes.
AL HAINES: Left!
Left!
LEFT!
MICK O'DONNELL: 111 dead, 172 injured, 13 unharmed.
The heroic pilot, Al Haines, survived and now lectures on the experience.
He's endorsed the dramatised version.
So too has the Pentagon, which has given Charlie Victor Romeo an Air Force training contract.
ROBERT BERGER: The important thing regardless of whether there's a failure or success, is the attempt to try and right the situation.
This is an incredibly huge, complex machine and we are people and we will attempt to deal with the situation.
. .Transcripts on this website are created by an independent transcription service. The ABC does not warrant the accuracy of the transcripts.
. .Transcript. .26/02/2002. .'Charlie Victor Bravo' offers insight into the cockpit
KERRY O'BRIEN: There was outrage in the airline industry when a New York theatre company announced its plans to re-enact on stage the recorded final minutes in the cockpit of airliners involved in fatal crashes.
But the play, Charlie Victor Romeo, based meticulously on the black box voice recordings of doomed aircraft, went ahead.
It has already won over many of its critics and was one of the big successes of the Perth International Festival.
Mick O'Donnell reports.
Note: All flight attendants, pilots, co-pilots and other airline staff in this story are all actors.
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: To fasten your seatbelt, insert the metal fitting into the buckle.
Then pull the lose end to tighten the belt.
MICK O'DONNELL: How many of us pay attention to the safety spiel from the steward at the start of the flight?
Mostly, we put our faith blindly in the hands of the crew up the pointy end of the plane.
Until - PILOT: I think it would be better for all personnel to inhale into your emergency mask.
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Please keep your heads on seatbacks and hold your babies firmly.
MICK O'DONNELL: But how do the crews really respond when catastrophe comes?
PILOT: It is about -- raise nose!
MICK O'DONNELL: JAL Flight 123.
524 passengers and crew, departs Tokyo, August '85.
A sudden rupture of an aft pressure bulkhead…
COPILOT: Power, power, power!
PILOT: I'm retracting!
MICK O'DONNELL: 520 dead.
Four survivors.
NEWSREEL: Amazingly, there were survivors.
Still, it was the worst air disaster involving a single aircraft in history.
ROBERT BERGER, CO-DIRECTOR, CHARLIE VICTOR ROMEO: They're the ones that stand between you and disaster.
They're the ones who are going to try and save your life and really, this play is about people trying to do just that, whether they're successful or not.
MICK O'DONNELL: Take Aeroperu Flight 603 out of Lima, on October 2, 1996.
CO-PILOT: Autopilot, don't put it on the autopilot, Captain.
Autopilot disconnect!
Autopilot disconnect!
MICK O'DONNELL: The captain and co-pilot, oblivious to the black box recording every word, argue over what to do when, inexplicably, their instruments stop working.
COPILOT: It seems that we have the right course.
What we don't have is air speed indicator and altitude.
MICK O'DONNELL: Unbeknownst to them, ground crew have failed to remove the tape they stuck over sensor vents while washing the plane.
The co-pilot, through the shaking of the joy stick, feels the plane is about to stall.
COPILOT: 200 of speed.
PILOT: Oh, **** .
We will stall down.
MICK O'DONNELL: But the pilot reads the opposite, the faulty indicator suggesting the plane is going too fast.
The crew at first, hide their situation from air traffic control.
CO-PILOT: Any aeroplane that could guide us at AeroPeru that may be around or somebody.
PILOT: Don't tell him anything about that.
CO-PILOT: Yes, because right now we're stalling!
PILOT: We're not stalling!
MICK O'DONNELL: Then the crew depends on air traffic control to tell them their height above the ground, their speed and heading.
AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL: Flight level is 100 plus 700 and approximate speed is 280 over the ground.
PILOT: Yeah, pert effect.
MICK O'DONNELL: Trouble is, control too is reading the plane's own false readings.
Instead of being thousands of feet up, the plane is plummeting towards the sea.
COPILOT: Should we lower the gear?
PILOT: Yeah, but what do we do with the gear?
I don't know that!
COPILOT: We're approaching water!
PILOT: I have it!
COPILOT: Pull it up.
We're going to do it right!
MICK O'DONNELL: Air Peru 603, crashed into Pacific Ocean, 70 dead.
ROBERT BERGER: To be told concretely by airline pilots that your artistic depiction of airline pilots in their work is useful to save lives by showing people this, that elevates both the rewards that you feel from doing something like this and also the sort of drive that you want to do it with.
So, in the face of September 11, to stop doing that, when people like that say it's something that's good and something that they want us to do, how could we possibly consider stopping?
MICK O'DONNELL: Since the hijacking and crashes of the four airliners in the US on September 11, the last moments of passengers and crew have gripped the public imagination - moments recorded on the black box of United Airlines flight 93 as hijackers seized control over Pennsylvania.
ON SCREEN GRAPHIC: CONTROLLER: United 93, verify 3-5-zero.
HIJACKER: Ladies and gentlemen here it's the captain, please sit down.
HIJACKER: Keep remaining sitting.
We have a bomb aboard.
CONTROLLER: Uh, calling Cleveland Centre, you're unreadable.
Say again slowly.
HIJACKER: Hi, this is the captain.
We'd like you all to remain seated.
There is a bomb aboard.
MICK O'DONNELL: Never before have we thought so much about the people in the cockpit.
We hope desperately that they are experienced, level-headed heroes and sometimes they really are.
United Airlines 232, headed for Chicago, July 19, 1989.
296 passengers and crew.
COPILOT: That is affirmative. Do you read?
PILOT: We have no hydraulics at all, so we're doing our best here.
MICK O'DONNELL: What was thought impossible had happened - an undetected crack in a fan disc in engine two shattered.
The engine exploded, raining enough shrapnel to destroy all three hydraulic systems, including the back-ups and knocking out engine four.
Suddenly the crew had no controls to fly the plane except the throttles on the surviving engines.
PILOT: We're not going to make the runway folks.
We're going to have to ditch this son of a bitch and hope for the best.
MICK O'DONNELL: But then, another impossibility.
An extraordinary coordination of the three crew and a flight instructor who happened to be on the plane, allows them to roughly steer in wavering circles.
ACTOR PLAYING AL HAINES: I didn't do this thing on my last simulator check.
COPILOT: Doh.
MICK O'DONNELL: The pilot, Al Haines, cracks jokes and somehow maintains the crew's focus as, for 40 minutes, they perform a manoeuvre never before attempted.
AL HAINES (ACTOR): We'll get this thing on the ground.
Don't worry about it.
MICK O'DONNELL: He gives them hope.
ROBERT BERGER: The only thing that they had, that they figured out how to do, was fly the aeroplane using the two engines, one on each wing, to sort of swing it left and swing it right and move in long lazy circles to the right until they sort of looped their way to the airport.
MICK O'DONNELL: The plane rolling and dipping up and down.
The crew edged it towards Sioux City.
The pilot calls in the head steward to prepare the passengers.
AL HAINES (ACTOR): Brace will be the signal.
It will be over the PA system: brace, brace, brace.
FLIGHT ATTENDANT: And that will be to evacuate?
AL HAINES: No, that will be to brace for landing and then, if you have to evacuate, you'll get the command signal to evacuate, but I really have my doubts of seeing it standing up, honey.
Good luck, sweetheart.
MICK O'DONNELL: Every word of the dialogue is just as the black box recorded it.
Miraculously, the crew lined the plane up for a crash landing at Sioux City but they have no steering, no brakes.
AL HAINES: Left!
Left!
LEFT!
MICK O'DONNELL: 111 dead, 172 injured, 13 unharmed.
The heroic pilot, Al Haines, survived and now lectures on the experience.
He's endorsed the dramatised version.
So too has the Pentagon, which has given Charlie Victor Romeo an Air Force training contract.
ROBERT BERGER: The important thing regardless of whether there's a failure or success, is the attempt to try and right the situation.
This is an incredibly huge, complex machine and we are people and we will attempt to deal with the situation.
. .Transcripts on this website are created by an independent transcription service. The ABC does not warrant the accuracy of the transcripts.
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That must have taken a while to type out. Then again you probably use more than two fingers!
But I must say, it is sad to see even the ABC can get it wrong. UA 232 was a DC10, so how could engine number four be knocked out? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
But I must say, it is sad to see even the ABC can get it wrong. UA 232 was a DC10, so how could engine number four be knocked out? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
