QF in the SA regions (regional ops ex ADL)
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QF in the SA regions (regional ops ex ADL)
I was wondering if anyone here had any info on QF's strategy for Regional SA. It is the only region (along with NT I suppose) where the QFLink brand doesn't fly regional services.
There are FF affiliations with both ASA and O'Connor but this doesn't provide the same level of service that a Eastern/Sunstate/Impulse etc would elsewhere in Australia.
I have no real insider info on the QF-affiliated SA regionals currently except that they are doing much better than before after AN/KDs problems (they have added extra flights etc.)
The only route on which they have suffered and cut back is the ex-Whyalla Airlines route to CVC and WUD, and the reason for this is more community reluctance to travel post-accident as well as learning to adopt to a new airline. Hence ASA have recently cut flights on that route.
However I have often thought that QF might have interest in ramping up its presence in SA. I think the most logical way of doing this is basically transforming ASA and O'Connor into franchise operators under the QantasLink brand a little like Impulse was before it was bought outright by QF.
Another way would be to purchase the two companies, merge them and rationalise their fleet. B1900Ds might well be a good option and perhaps a couple of Dash-8s for ports such as PLO.
Of course they could always bring Impulse B1900Ds in, drop the FF arrangement with the 2 local airlines and start their own ops to PLO, WYA, MGB etc. However this would seem to me to be much more risky and probably not necessary.
The final gap in the SA network is the surprising lack of QF-affiliate service to Kangaroo Island, which is a popular tourism spot. KD have traditionally done really well here (up to 3 Saab 340s daily) and Emu Air certainly have a fair share of the market. I have always wondered why Emu don't leave the tiny hidden-away GA terminal, team up with QF (or to throw a spanner in the works - why not Virgin?) and provide a good feeder service to KI from QF mainline domestic? If I were QF I would add Emu into their SA strategy...
I imagine that the QF reluctance in SA is to have to support ops with very small pax numbers. We know about QF's dislike of 19-pax a/c ops (like the B1900s) - what will they think of 9 pax chieftan ops?
Much as I'd like to see KD do well in SA, from a QF point of view, wouldn't this be an ideal time to pounce?
Anyway, that's all I can really contribute to this at present. Anyone else have any ideas, or better have a little bit of inside knowledge?????
There are FF affiliations with both ASA and O'Connor but this doesn't provide the same level of service that a Eastern/Sunstate/Impulse etc would elsewhere in Australia.
I have no real insider info on the QF-affiliated SA regionals currently except that they are doing much better than before after AN/KDs problems (they have added extra flights etc.)
The only route on which they have suffered and cut back is the ex-Whyalla Airlines route to CVC and WUD, and the reason for this is more community reluctance to travel post-accident as well as learning to adopt to a new airline. Hence ASA have recently cut flights on that route.
However I have often thought that QF might have interest in ramping up its presence in SA. I think the most logical way of doing this is basically transforming ASA and O'Connor into franchise operators under the QantasLink brand a little like Impulse was before it was bought outright by QF.
Another way would be to purchase the two companies, merge them and rationalise their fleet. B1900Ds might well be a good option and perhaps a couple of Dash-8s for ports such as PLO.
Of course they could always bring Impulse B1900Ds in, drop the FF arrangement with the 2 local airlines and start their own ops to PLO, WYA, MGB etc. However this would seem to me to be much more risky and probably not necessary.
The final gap in the SA network is the surprising lack of QF-affiliate service to Kangaroo Island, which is a popular tourism spot. KD have traditionally done really well here (up to 3 Saab 340s daily) and Emu Air certainly have a fair share of the market. I have always wondered why Emu don't leave the tiny hidden-away GA terminal, team up with QF (or to throw a spanner in the works - why not Virgin?) and provide a good feeder service to KI from QF mainline domestic? If I were QF I would add Emu into their SA strategy...
I imagine that the QF reluctance in SA is to have to support ops with very small pax numbers. We know about QF's dislike of 19-pax a/c ops (like the B1900s) - what will they think of 9 pax chieftan ops?
Much as I'd like to see KD do well in SA, from a QF point of view, wouldn't this be an ideal time to pounce?
Anyway, that's all I can really contribute to this at present. Anyone else have any ideas, or better have a little bit of inside knowledge?????
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The SA operators you talk about (O'Connor & ASA) have to want or need to become a Q franchise though, and why would they when they are probably going quite well on there own at the mo. I don't think QF can just walk in and take these companies under their umbrella.
There was an interesting thread on here a few months ago about regionals, and apparently Airnorth and O'Connor are the only 2 regionals still operating independantly today that were around 15 (?) years ago.
Cheers
There was an interesting thread on here a few months ago about regionals, and apparently Airnorth and O'Connor are the only 2 regionals still operating independantly today that were around 15 (?) years ago.
Cheers
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Airnorth has held the same name for 15 yrs but has been re-incarnated several times. Much like AN.
QF has regional services in the NT, albeit a lttle limited. DN-GV, DN-AS.
As for SA QF has NJS based in Adelaide already operating Dash 8's and 146 if they wish too expand their route structure.
QF has regional services in the NT, albeit a lttle limited. DN-GV, DN-AS.
As for SA QF has NJS based in Adelaide already operating Dash 8's and 146 if they wish too expand their route structure.
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Airbrake, The largest Regional in SA has 2X34 seat and 5X19 seat Aircraft as that has been proven over a long period of time to be the size of the market. I cant see QF running more Dash 8's and Bae 146's in SA.
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"ASA and O'conners don't seem to provide the same level of service as Impulse etc. would"
Why are you so anti ASA (and o'conners to some posts, I don't just mean in this post either.
Also, why would Emu bother forking out thousands of dollars monthly just to be "affiliated" with Qantas when they do extremely well on their own?? It wouldn't make sense!
[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Freek Flyer ]
Why are you so anti ASA (and o'conners to some posts, I don't just mean in this post either.
Also, why would Emu bother forking out thousands of dollars monthly just to be "affiliated" with Qantas when they do extremely well on their own?? It wouldn't make sense!
[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Freek Flyer ]
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ADL man,
I don't know whre you get your facts from (probably from Pprune) but the real reason ASA destroyed the Cleve and Wudinna run is that they could never pay their accomodation bill at WUD, hence the overnights stopped, and the early morning departure out of WUD would generally have a 90% loading.
The country folk had no problem with adjusting (as you suggested) to a new airline, but they got a bit p!$$ed off when they were continually being delayed with late departures etc due to the ever increasing breakdown of their aging Chieftain fleet.
yet your facts right, spud.
Also, who are you to say that ASA and O'Connors cannot provide a service like that on the east coast. Have you flown with all of these airlines ?? I have, and I can't see any difference, apart from O'Connors conducting the safety brief face to face rather than over the PA.
Why don't ASA and O'Connors have hosties ? Because they are not required to. Why don't they operate 34 seaters. Because SA just does not have the population the warrant such aircraft.
Get it right !!!
I don't know whre you get your facts from (probably from Pprune) but the real reason ASA destroyed the Cleve and Wudinna run is that they could never pay their accomodation bill at WUD, hence the overnights stopped, and the early morning departure out of WUD would generally have a 90% loading.
The country folk had no problem with adjusting (as you suggested) to a new airline, but they got a bit p!$$ed off when they were continually being delayed with late departures etc due to the ever increasing breakdown of their aging Chieftain fleet.
yet your facts right, spud.
Also, who are you to say that ASA and O'Connors cannot provide a service like that on the east coast. Have you flown with all of these airlines ?? I have, and I can't see any difference, apart from O'Connors conducting the safety brief face to face rather than over the PA.
Why don't ASA and O'Connors have hosties ? Because they are not required to. Why don't they operate 34 seaters. Because SA just does not have the population the warrant such aircraft.
Get it right !!!
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Infidel: my info on Cleve/Wudinna comes from a councillor on the Le Hunte district council whose base is Wudinna. He is a prominent figure in the local community, uses the RT service often and was key in enticing RT to serve these ports when WW collapsed.
As for my comments about ASA and O'Connor, my comments related to the interconnection between these airlines and QF mainline. Nothing to do with inflight service.
Jeez, get a life! If all you can do is try and source insults out of what was supposed to be an objective post, then you have to get your priorities sorted out.
There is no stronger supporter of SA regional air services than myself and it is sadly ironic that you are trying to pin me with the opposite!!!!!!!
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: The ADL man, formerly Alex AC ]
As for my comments about ASA and O'Connor, my comments related to the interconnection between these airlines and QF mainline. Nothing to do with inflight service.
Jeez, get a life! If all you can do is try and source insults out of what was supposed to be an objective post, then you have to get your priorities sorted out.
There is no stronger supporter of SA regional air services than myself and it is sadly ironic that you are trying to pin me with the opposite!!!!!!!
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: The ADL man, formerly Alex AC ]
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TI & AD Man, interesting comments WUD & CEE run.
The situation on that run is more complex than you realise.
Firstly in 1990 WW were running 3 rtn flights a week, just prior to closing down they were running 9 rtn flts a week, over this time the airfare ramained the same, pass. numbers increased from 2.6 to 8 over this time, well and truly covering increased costs.
When ASA started so did the GST, fuel prices had sky-rocketed and the Aus$ had plummeted so the airfare had to be increased dramatically!
As a result of the Appeals Tribunal turn around times had to be greatly increased leading to changes in the timetable.
Also was the problem of a new operater not fully understanding the needs of the people on that route, and different pilots every week.
The majority of the pass. want to go from the EP to Adelaide for the day, for meetings or medical appointments. To arrive in Ad at 10.30am is useless, they have to go the night before and pay accomadation or take the Bus.
Lastly, yes some people were shell shocked, and with aircraft running up to 1.5hrs late fears were only hightened.
The only answer to the problem is to start again, base a pilot and aircraft at Wudinna and build the service up again. Who can afford to do that and where do you find a pilot happy to live in the bush?
The situation on that run is more complex than you realise.
Firstly in 1990 WW were running 3 rtn flights a week, just prior to closing down they were running 9 rtn flts a week, over this time the airfare ramained the same, pass. numbers increased from 2.6 to 8 over this time, well and truly covering increased costs.
When ASA started so did the GST, fuel prices had sky-rocketed and the Aus$ had plummeted so the airfare had to be increased dramatically!
As a result of the Appeals Tribunal turn around times had to be greatly increased leading to changes in the timetable.
Also was the problem of a new operater not fully understanding the needs of the people on that route, and different pilots every week.
The majority of the pass. want to go from the EP to Adelaide for the day, for meetings or medical appointments. To arrive in Ad at 10.30am is useless, they have to go the night before and pay accomadation or take the Bus.
Lastly, yes some people were shell shocked, and with aircraft running up to 1.5hrs late fears were only hightened.
The only answer to the problem is to start again, base a pilot and aircraft at Wudinna and build the service up again. Who can afford to do that and where do you find a pilot happy to live in the bush?
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ADL man, sorry about the grief. I got a bit excited !!! You are right, too many people are always too ready to have a go.
NPB (I know an acft with that rego!!) Good post, but could you elaborate on the Appeals board thingy. I'd be interested to know more. I saw the CEE/WUD run go from a great run, to being destroyed by ASA.
NPB (I know an acft with that rego!!) Good post, but could you elaborate on the Appeals board thingy. I'd be interested to know more. I saw the CEE/WUD run go from a great run, to being destroyed by ASA.
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I think we are all forgetting one major point here. The fact that after the Wyalla Airlines crash passenger confidence went to an all time low. As were passenger numbers on all PA31 ops in the SA region.
Anyway
Cheers All
[ 11 December 2001: Message edited by: Freek Flyer ]
Anyway
Cheers All
[ 11 December 2001: Message edited by: Freek Flyer ]
