Air New Zealand
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Air New Zealand
With Virgin Blue ownership now 50% Australian, the proposed Qantas expansion in NZ and the low cost Qantas carrier on the horizon, there doesn't appear to be much hope for Air New Zealand.. .. .The NZ Government's decision to bail out Air New Zealand is looking like another aviation blunder. When they kept Air New Zealand afloat they got to keep all their pre September 11 lease rates. They have a 747 parked at Auckland, the lease costs being written off.. .. .The new classic 737 fleet cost $500 million and they paid absolute top dollar for their Beech 1900 aircraft. How they plan to make a return on these aircraft is interesting.. .. .They now face competition from airlines which are setting up, taking full advantage of the post September 11 costs of aircraft acquisition.. .. .The only positive thing is that Qantas or Virgin might look at Air new Zealand for its engineering facilities. Most likely the low cost carrier Virgin will expand rapidly as the market worldwide has tended to embrace the no frills concept. To help keep their cost down it would make sense to maintain these aircraft in NZ.
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Well and truly lost. It is the cost of having a socialist government. One week's worth of beneficiary payments would have kept the A4's flying for another year.. .. .Kermie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
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Sorry F.C.. .. .QF might send some metal across the pond for a service but a cashed up DJ might just be looking at some beautiful big empty hangars in Brissy & Melb. - available now at a bargin price (as is heaps of equip.).. .. .Not to mention all the 737 qualified engineers that are looking for work now.. .. .Jetcare at Brisbane currently does most of DJ's work. Jetcare is/was part of the FWA group. . .. .With just a handful of 737s, it was logical to outsource - but with a growing fleet DJ will need to look at maint. real soon.. .. .If the above happens - at least some more AN staff can leave the Centrelink Q.. .. .Kermie; Some stange decisions have come out of 'Helensgrad'. I feel sorry for the NZ people. Their taxes have been well and truely wasted on several decisions. But that's democracy - wait 'til the next election.
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ALPHA 41, you're one sad twisted loser.. .Please see what Air NZ is right now - just what AN was for 10 years; a basket case organisation staffed with a bunch of highly motivated, professional and hard working people that do an honest job at trying to get a mis managed turkey back in the air.. .You obvoiusly think it's OK that a whole lot more good people get let down and shoved out just because you're a bit bitter about some mates that have had thus done unto them.. .. .Yes, Air NZ needs some sort of comeuppance, but your attitude makes me sick, and I aint a kiwi or even with the Koru....
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Well said buzid, obviously Alpha41 is a sad whinging aussie contributing towards what appears a wholely distasteful industry out there where they appear to continuely backstab each other,looking for any one else to blame.. .(Maybe the result of a market of too many pilots and not enough jobs?). .I might not know much about the industry out there, but it seems there are a lot of people looking to blame everyone else except themselves.. .The industry has suffered enough over the past 12 months and enough jobs lost...mainly through pure economics....including the company I work for.. .To wish anyone out of a job in any industry is displaying a petty and vindictive attitude that this forum can do without....
Alpha 41. .. .I'm an ex-Ansett pilot. I would not wish what I've been through the last 6 months on anyone, ESPECIALLY fellow pilots like those who work for ANZ. Upper management at ANZ has blood on it's hands, but I have no desire to see retribution taken out on the honest rank and file. . .. .Kindly refrain from assuming you can talk for me or any other Ansett people. The Ansett I knew contained people cut from a finer cloth than that.
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Alpha41. .. .You do not speak for me, another ex-Ansett pilot. I bear no ill-will towards fellow workers in Air New Zealand or any other airline.. .. .Of course I am angry that I have lost a job through no fault of my own; and, at my age I do not expect to find another in the airline industry. But I accept that I am a victim of circumstances.. .. .Bad decisions of managements and governments made over many years caused the collapse of Ansett. I have difficulty in accepting that any person or board of directors or government did anything to deliberately put 16,000+ people out of work.
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Alpha41 . .. .I and many others sympathise with your plight - two members of my family and three close friends were directly affected by the Ansett collapse. My husband and I have also been similarly affected before.. .. .However, it is selfish, childish and self destructive to be so bitter as to wish for the demise of Air New Zealand. Do you think you and your colleagues in Ansett were unique? Do you think you are the only people who have suffered suicides, family breaks ups and loss of homes due to the collapse of a business entity?. .. .If so, then open your eyes! Would you like to see the same fate befall more of your fellow professionals? If so then I feel sorry for you - you are very obviously not psychologically fit to fly suffering such feelings of anger. . .. .Why is it that you as a professional pilot can be so bitter and wish for the demise of your fellow professionals?. .. .Sorry - don't understand it and neither do any of our other pilot friends including those friends who lost everything in the Ansett collapse. . .. .Just think - if ANZ does fall over, you stand even less a chance of re-employment in your chosen profession, and even less chance of employment at a rate of pay you would see as reasonable.. .. .Yes I sympathise - but I hope you receive some anger management counselling before you fly any aircraft I'm in!
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I do sympathise with you and all other ex-AN folk A41, but the average guy/gal at ANZ didn't sink us, blame their govt who took the decision to sink the lives of 17,000+ Aussie families just so as Commrade Clarke wouldn't be seen to be selling of the farm to SQ. The cost to New Zealander has been an an extra burden of $1000+ for every NZ taxpayer(think of that at the next election and get rid of her!!). However, the anti Aussie sentiment that I have heard from NZedders has dampened any feeling of affection that I ever held for that nation.All the same I wouldn't want to see the rank-and-file at ANZ lose their jobs.
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Blaming Air NZ for the collapse of Ansett is a total joke. Air NZ, along with its shareholder Singapore Airlines, purchased Ansett with good intent. Nobody could have predicted that Impulse and Virgin Blue would enter the market and create an intense airfare price war.. .. .The price war would have been very hard on Ansett with its high cost structure, but when Impulse began to fail the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission allowed Qantas to pick it up. The reason they gave was that it was for the benefit of the Impulse workers. In reality it shafted the Air NZ owned Ansett big time. It seems that nobody in Australia cares much for anyone or anything in NZ, and because Air NZ owned Ansett they were shafted as well. I think you need to look on your side of the Tasman for the reasons Ansett doesn't fly.
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Alpha 41. .. .You should keep your opinion to yourself and not published on this website. I presume there are many good people ex Ansett looking for other employment at this time. All they need is for people to think that all ex Ansett people are bitter and twisted. Onwards and upwards.
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QUOTE: "If you dont agree say so but refrain from making a psychological assessment on someone by reading a few words on a web site." UNQUOTE. .. .QUOTE: "What qualifications do you posess to say whether I can fly or not. You sound like a bumbling, ignorant, uneducated individual." UNQUOTE. .. .Why don't you go forth and practice what you preach. This is one very fine example of why this particular forum is so regulated, some of you just can't help but fire up ill-feeling and antagonise people.. .. .Kermit 180 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />
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Kermit. .. .Well put.. .. .Alpha41 . .. .You have just proven Amelia Flashtarts case.. .. .We all know that there are some individuals at the head of AirNZ and their Govt whom have much to answer for. It does nobody any good to wish the same on the innocents.. .. .The same applies to the authors of Ansetts demise.. .. .I and more than a few of my business colleagues, not Ansett employees were major losers financially (and I'm talking in the millions, but it's only money after all) out of the '89 dispute, but that did not stop us from morally supporting their stand (we wish it hadn't gone the way it did) but neither did we wish a pox on the noncombatant Ansett staff. We just made sure when it came around again, as we were sure it would, that we could continue to be passionate about the industry but be relatively immune from the strolling adventurers within.. .. .It's called life and sometimes really just isn't fair, but you pays your money and you take your chances and you soon learn that the pain you get from hitting your head against a brick wall stops when you stop hitting your head against it.
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Alpha41. .. .Just take a minute to think about your comments. Firstly I, like the other 15999 Ansett employees were devistated by the collapse of Ansett, Kendell, Skywest etc etc. It had a major effect on all our lives, and some took the blow harder than others but none the less we were all affected. Why would anyone in there right mind want to punish those who work for an airline much like ours, who have wives, families, morgages much like ours and pride themselves on their jobs much like we do. Despite flooding the market with another few hundred pilots and flight attendents etc etc. Bere in mind it was not their fault just like it wasn't our fault!. .Luckily for me the airline you so wish to see the demise of, has given me and other Aussies a job for the short term after the collapse of AN and I stand along side my Ansett and Air New Zealand collegues equally, despite what you may think of the company. The guys and girls from both sides of the Tasman are every bit as professional as each other and deserve to have a job as much as each other.So please don't wish me and others out of a job again by your bitter statements regarding Air New Zealand. If you want to blame anyone you should look well past the little man trying get a dollar for a days work.. .. .Hang in there all and happy flying.
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So What support did the staff of Air New Zealand rally to support their former 'colleagues'? . .. . Ahhh, the sound of silence.. .. .What is wrong with the industry, seniority. Give me one logical reason why a 21 year old 'cadet' at Qantas should be promoted to a B737 ahead of an ex Ansett B737 Captain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> .. .. .If you answered the above then tell me why pilots should be paid so well when in 3 years one is worth the same as one who has more and greater experience.. .. .Hmmmmmm.
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longjohn. .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">What is wrong with the industry, seniority. Give me one logical reason why a 21 year old 'cadet' at Qantas should be promoted to a B737 ahead of an ex Ansett B737 Captain </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Logical it may be but the evidence of the last 12 or so years seems to suggest their would not otherwise be any youngsters around at all. It is the only protection they have and is the only protection the airlines have from senior pilots playing musical chairs.. .. .The seniority system may not be perfect but in the last 100 or so years of airline ops they haven't been able to work out any other more succesful method not subject to patronage and corruption.. .Remember we have only had maybe a half dozen or so significant airlines go away in OZ. In the US and Europe it would have to be in the hundreds if not thousands and that's where it has it's genesis.. .. .You will no doubt recall the closing chapters of the immortal Ernie Ganns most famous autobiographry wherein he swaps single number seniority in the then biggest airline in the world if I recall correctly for #1 in a new start up that just could not fail. But it did and neither is the other still around. . .. .It is still a salutory lesson.
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Attention Kim/bound!!! and others,. .. . SKYWEST has been flying again since mid-september and is now totally independant of what was Ansett and is owned now by a group calling themselves Airline Investments Limited. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />