So now the other boot finally drops - SQ shows its hand.
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Sorry GAUNTY, but I for one am not giving up on the conspiricy theory just yet.. .. .I firmly belive that the majority of what has gone on with ANSETT was/is a well prepared plan.. .. .And while I am displaying my paranoia, I also belive that the MURDOC interest/duplicity in this is more than passing single line in the recient life and times of ANSETT. . .. .Can you tell my why, the media have blammed everbody but ??????.. .. .Now where are those red pills.. .. .(Good luck to all the ex-ANSETT crews)
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WTF is a 'boutique' domestic airline? . .. .Does it mean a requirement that all male crews be cross dressers?. .. . <img src="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/naughty.gif" alt="" />. . . . <small>[ 13 March 2002, 08:50: Message edited by: Hairy Lasso ]</small>
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barra. .. .This is not short term - it is definitely medium to long term planning - set in motion at least 12 months ago and maybe more.. .. .This is merely the last act in SQ removing a managerial lame duck and despite the pain and loss of a previous investment, the SQ run model will no doubt pay this back and more.. .. .SQ cannot afford not to have a presence, and an efficient an profitable one to feed their international services - they would have to be the second biggest International ex Australia (possibly excepting NZ). QF has the feeder network now and SQ are having to subsidise the connecting services their ports to stay competitive.. .. .There is also currently a huge hole in the Star Alliance worldwide network they need to plug - but with something run their way. . .. .Very cleverly done too. Air New Zealand is the fall guy and the only sacrifice SQ has had to make is the 2 members on the NZ board that are now technically open to law suits from the former AN board members.. .. .If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - wise man say look carefully for duck impersonator.. .. .Best all. .. .EWL
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EWL - Just exactly what are you smoking?. .. .There is no mysterious Asian plot about to unfold!. .. .SQ LOST heavily on ANZ when the NZ "government" re-nationalised their airline and SQ's stake fell from 25% to 4%, a very big loss indeed.. .. .SQ tried to buy a big stake in AN that would, undoubtedly, have kept them flying, it was ANZ management that scuppered that one and allowed AN to fall by the wayside. Yes, their would have been management changes but here on PPRuNe it has been said very many times, by AN staff, that it was AN management that was primarily at fault in the first place.. .. .SQ could have walked in and made the Lew/Fox bid look stupid but by then it was no longer a viable business proposition, (which makes one wonder exactly what it was that FoxLew wanted?!). Now SIA are behaving just like any other well shod aviation professional business men/women and will pick over the bones with cheque book in hand. There is no moral issue at all - go to SIN, see how they treat their own employees!. .. .Personally I thought SQ would get the 50% of AN that they wanted either directly or via Virgin but it was Air New Zealand that stopped that, no good accusing SIA of subterfuge and long distance planning now, it simply does not exist for very sound business reasons.. . . . <small>[ 13 March 2002, 11:50: Message edited by: G.Khan ]</small>
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If there is ANY SQ involvement in an Aussie domestic airline, my money would be riding on a Virgin-SIA partnership using the ex-AN terminal space and lounges, rather than SQ venturing out alone.. .. .Branson - thru' Brett Godfrey - has a winning thoroughbred's track record with Virgin Blue, and the name Ansett has become a liability in the eyes of the Aussie public (for 6 or 12 months), and would be viewed as a "toe in the water" that would quickly be retracted in unfavourable trading circumstances (apapro FLEW).. .. .Sorry to differ with you on this one EWL, but I tend to think that you might be viewing the Ansett-SQ "thing" through misty, rose-coloured glasses at this point in time. . .. .I still push the barrow that ANY interest SIA might superficially appear to have in a domestic Oz airline, is with a view to obtaining extra overseas destinations for themselves (SQ) - because of their own inability to do so (as a Singapore owned & registered airline - rather than any oncarriage.
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I do seem to have incurred the wrath of Khan!!. .. .I still stand by the flow of events as called 12 months ago.. .. .SQ has been seen to "do the right thing" maybe asking for things they knew they would never get.. .. .Maybe also the cost of booting the inept management involved was far higher than allowing a collapse and starting anew.. .. .Only they know.. .. .Best all. .. .EWL
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Kaptin M. .. .I think you are right in what you say but do not for a second believe that the AN brand will be part of the new airline as it is too tainted by events.. .. .Just so long as at least some of the staff get the guernsey it will not be a bad thing.. .. .Best. .. .EWL
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"With my last breath I spit at thee..." Yeah EWL, I've seen that movie too!. .. .I don't think it's too much of a stretch to consider the smiling Singaporeans have an agenda here. Whether they've hatched it so long ago, or just thought of taking an opportunity, we'll never know.. .. .SQ are now competing for a newly "cost savvy" Australian public, so the Singapore girl isn't as appealing as she once was. Lets face it, their feeder from around Oz has dried up completely. I'd love to see their figures ex Oz in the last 6 months and compare it to their forward bookings. . .. .ANZ were always going to learn a lesson after rubbing SQ's nose in the dirt. They made them look bad and I don't think SQ ever forgave them. Consider how much they've lost in ANZ shares to how much they could have pumped in to maintain their shareholding. I wonder how different that figure would've been?. .. .DJ, with a product upgrade would be a good step to you & I, but when you think about how much SQ have lost face in the business world by not having a controlling interest in their "pet" projects, I think they'd like their own airline, run their own way. Sure, they'd be tough on staff, but they wouldn't have to get an okay from stoopid people like the NZ PM!! That would give them an approximate product for their "dedicated" feeds, they could allow a token Aussie ownership for INTL rights, but firmly hold the reigns at the same time, have a STAR compatible product, and sink the boot into QF. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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My point exactly Buster.. .. .We will indeed never know the flow of thinking or events involved but they must have a feeder infrastructure and whether it is a combination of Flight West and Kendell with their own premium product to tilt at the rat windmill - only time will tell.. .. .I feel there will be A320s and A319s beetling around our skies sooner rather than later. Possibly A321s - Silk Air South. The A319 would have to be the least attractive passenger aeroplane I have ever seen. Oh well - it works.. .. .Apologies if I have stepped on any toes it this subject - it is just so unusual for me to be right on the flow of events. *G*. .. .Best mates. .. .EWL
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If it's a subsiduary of Silk Air, with an Aussie flavour, what should it be called?. .. .Flannelette Air??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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Nah Buster. .. .Twinset Air - or maybe Air Bluey. . .. .EWL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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That is cool Khansan. .. .What we wish will have little impact on the end product anyway mate.. .. .I am off to beddies.. .. .See you any my other mates next Wendesay when what is left of me gets back from Coolangatta.. .. .Best. .. .EWL
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An Ansett stuff up? An Air NZ stuff up? An SQ conspiracy?. .. .Consider the following, from deep within!. .. .SQ tried for QF and lost to BA.......strike one!. .. .SQ tried for AN and lost to NZ.......Strike two!!. .. .SQ got 3rd prize, Air NZ.............Strike three!!!. .. .And they were out of there......shortly after the ink dried on the NZ deal.. .. .There was no way the NZ govt were going to give in.. .. .And SQ were severely pissed off!. .. .What everyone seems to have missed is that Sir Ritchie Rich turned up in OZ only weeks after. .the AN/NZ/SQ deal was finalised, posing a major threat to SQ's investment in both NZ and AN. .via NZ. This the jolly entrepreneur holding an even equity in Virgin Atlantic with SQ. Is this. .normaly what happens with viable business partners? Do you simply walk up to the good DR and. .pull the rug out from under him in one deal and expect the other to continue unabaited?. .. .The upper hand in recent events seems to be not when to pump captial into a venture, but to. .refuse to pump it in when it is required. Surely if SQ wanted to protect it's interest in NZ/AN. .it would have done something, not dangled a carrot in front of a worn out nag till it dropped. .then only to walk off and pocket the carrot. This sole action in VB appearing and NZ/AN being. .abandoned by not only SQ but stubborn local politics and Singapore govt money pulled off the cocky. .leans directly to manipulation. Of course they will claim that Sept 11 in NY scared off any. .investment, but the economic fallout created by that event was an act of god that fell into the. .laps of those who couldn't believe their luck. And it signalled to all under duress that then. .was the time to jump. Goodbye Ansett.. .. .Clearly part A of the program has been completed. That is the destruction of Ansett. Remember. .what Sir Richard replied with when asked what he would do if he owned Ansett?. .. ."Shut it down and start again". .. .Almost as if he knew what was going to happen. The legendary tearing up of the cheque signaled. .for all to see that he was in control and Ansett's last chance went to the circular file with. .that piece of paper. Who can blame him, Patrick's just paid him more for half of his airline,. .a tribute to Sir Richards ability to swing a deal? Or is it a loan?......a sweetheart deal to. .secure terminal space and generate captial at the same time? No doubt Patricks are only interested. .in assets that sit on the ground. Terminals and maintenance, utilities that Sir Richard has no. .eyes for. Don't worry, each unit of Ansett's assets will be broken off into lovely little money. .makers for those who take them up, leaving VB to concentrate on the flying. A business plan that. .is bullet proof and will be very hard to stop. But those units won't be there to serve only. .VB.....oh no.....there will be other players coming who can benefit from massive cost savings too.. .A cartel of carriers out for a kangaroo cull!. .. .The industry is being shaken up like never before, fashioned for the modern business plan, the. .21st century. Low cost and mass distribution.. .. .Part B is going to be just as fascinating. What hints has Sir Richard given away this time?. .. ."I plan to set up another discount airline using smaller planes flying to ports who are disadvantaged. .by not having access to Virgin". .. .Well......if this doesn't spell "REGIONAL" we should all review our intelligence. Just how is he. .going to do it. Start from scratch? Very likely. Don't forget the AN regionals are still infected. .with the same reactive (not proactive) Ansett managers that oversaw their demise as well. And they. .will not budge , they continue to recruit politicaly aligned colleagues with no ability at the . .expense of experienced regional staff being marched out the door with some of the most pathetic. .redundancy packages ever seen in this country. Not the Ansett package......because......they are. .separate companies, nothing to do with Ansett. Say so the Ansett people who manage them.. .. .And surely Sir Richards "REGIONAL" announcement was intended to ring clear in the ears of potential. .bidders for the regional remnants to "STEER CLEAR" of or go the way of FLEW. That is be stuffed around . .like what you ain't never been stuffed around before. Once again some very powerful manipulation.. .He is the only option any of them have to feed, without a feeder in the bush you're gone. He holds. .all the aces such is the power of Sir Richard, all through not providing an open door. Of course. .he can open the door.......but......only if he feels like it.. .. .He will get the deal he wants if he chooses to buy into the regionals, or shut them down and start. .again......sound familiar?. .. .And what of the boutique carrier. Not Sir Richards idea this one. Enter the good doctor. Low cost. .terminal space......low cost maintenance.....full on service......nice new planes......sounds like. .someone knows how to make a buck in this business huh? Just a question of when.....timing...... .what period would be best to introduce this new silver to the dining table? Like Proffessor Julius. .Sumner Miller used to say......"If I told you all the answers......you wouldn't have anything to. .occupy your mind!". .. .And what of Part C.....the Rat.....what of the national monument......the protected species.. .It is obviously viewed as a parasite in some quarters. And what is the best way to deal with a. .parasite that insists on having it's way.......holding on for it's fill.......sucking away like. .there's no tomorrow.. .. .You let it bloat itself till it drops off under it's own weight.. .. .You let it buy a pet cocky.....you let it resurect AA.....you let it spread to every nook and cranny. .in the land, You give it the best time of it's life. You raise it's expectations. You let it get. .big and fat......then you go hunting. They already have industrial trouble. They already have. .way too much capacity out there to be able to efficiently cope with another one (or two) carriers. .wanting a slice. They have to face the reality of being more like their competitors, such an alien. .landscape for an old mindset. They are already flying into trouble, and the game has hardly begun.. .Can they trim their costs in time......without mass disruption......lower themselves down that far.. .Let's face it ...... QF have to question their current position.....they've basically done very little. .to get themselves where they are. It's more the other side being shut down by a third party.. .. .The Rat has big problems coming..........BOOM!.........BUST!. .. .My conclusion.......not a conspiracy.......not an innocent gaggle of going wrongs.. .. .It's all too obvious to be a conspiracy.. .. .Ansett and Air NZ were always going to get it wrong......no innocence in that collapse.. .. .Folks this is a power stuggle.....with power plays......and some very big power players.. .. .Only the strong are going to survive.. .. .Loco you're on the right track......they've spent some money on what appears to be no gain,. .but they do know what they are doing......believe me.
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I'll put 5 dollars on SQ purchasing BA's shareholding in QF. QF purchasing the carcass of Air NZ, and we all end up in the 'star alliance'.. .remember you saw it here first, but it's just a rumour. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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A lot of thought there Ex_one - but to suggest that Ansett was intentionally killed off is taking the conspiracy theory too far.. .. .Ansett was rotten to the core, debt-riddled, and quite simply required an enormous cash injection (for the airline operation to continue) that would not have guaranteed a return on the money.. .That Ansett was in a severely financially debilitated position, has been public knowledge, and regularly discussed HERE on PPRuNe for years. . .It is not a recent happening, and preceded Air New Zealand's acquisition of AN.. .. .Sir Richard Branson IS an astute entrepeneur - he has also been a lucky one, thanks to Brett Godfrey's insight (and access to SRB's $$$'s) that allowed him to develop Virgin Blue.. .. .Singapore Airlines did have the opportunity to invest in Ansett, but obviously scrutinised the accountants' books a lot more closely than Air N.Z. did. My guess is that Eddington was able to re-arrange the figures to make Ansett's first "profit" for eons appear to make Ansett look as though it had turned the corner - then Rod took off as fast as he could (to B.A.), before the whole kaboodle started crumbling.. .. .The Australian domestic airline scene is extremely fluid at the moment. Personally I believe there IS room for another operator to compete for the middle spectrum of the market, where they aren't involved in cut-throat, cheap fares.. .. .Time will tell.
Evertonian
There you go Kaptin, I agree with you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> Unless DJ improves it's product, I think there's room for one more.. .. .AN's demise should be held up for all to see in corporate Australia. This is NOT how you do it! Go back 20 odd years & watch her slide.. .. .I agree, to a certain extent, with ex-one (btw, hows the RSI?). QF won the lotto on Sept 14, but they were operating to almost the same conditions AN was, they just had better airline management! I still cannot believe, however, that they are repeating AN's history of multiple fleet types. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't they already passed AN's record for fleet mix?. .. .And that's just one example.
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Always suspected that SQ will end up getting what they want out of the debacle. Certainly the brand name is dead now. SQ will be able to cherry pick what it wants, maybe not directly, but one way or another.