ANTI- ANSETT.. for the press please read.
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ANTI- ANSETT.. for the press please read.
If any one from the press are reading these threads I thought I may be bold and let you in on a secret .A great deal (a majority )of the people contributing to these threads have a 1989 background . Sadly ,there is a great bitterness and hatred in here. This clouds what could be quite a brilliant gathering of minds . Then the facts are twisted and turned and in this case "its pay back time " Ansett has collapsed.
This has been met with unbelievable sadness and hardship for the Ansett staff . At the same time there are a great number of very bitter people here who are rejoicing, 12 years after they were wronged , who never ever had closure on their tragedy and even today remember the" war "as if it were a war.
There are Scab lists of people never to be employed again 12 years on. Some say there policy of hiring is led by "no 89ers".
The sadness here is that the truth is often hidden , bent or discarded to inflict maximum hurt to the enemy.
This is not the fault of the moderators. They have been pretty good . They are sick of the way these threads are going as well.
There was a time when a lot of what happened here was about aircraft and aviation employment and help to fellow aviators.
A classic example is yesterday`s Ansett pilot meeting . I was invited to attend .
It was extremely professional very patriotic and in the long run quite positive.
The APA appears to be dedicated to the survival of its company.There is a massive comeradery and resolve.They really do have a business plan.It is an achievable . Quite a testimonial to human resolve really.
For example the thread "Ansett pilots are f##*ed is just rubbish". If you read these threads you will see the same people are writing the same stuff . (You will get excellent examples by most of the people who will tear this thread to bits.)
I am not in Ansett . I am not an 89er..
In fact I probably wont bother visiting here much any more because a great deal of the brilliant aviation enthusiasts that really use to let you know what was going on in the game , cant be bothered posting anymore. . The posts were informative accurate and newsworthy in some cases.
So please beware a lot of what is going on here is far from the real game..
Even though this thread is not designed to upset anyone I am sure it will, AND so, in advance, to those people, I apologise CHEERS
This has been met with unbelievable sadness and hardship for the Ansett staff . At the same time there are a great number of very bitter people here who are rejoicing, 12 years after they were wronged , who never ever had closure on their tragedy and even today remember the" war "as if it were a war.
There are Scab lists of people never to be employed again 12 years on. Some say there policy of hiring is led by "no 89ers".
The sadness here is that the truth is often hidden , bent or discarded to inflict maximum hurt to the enemy.
This is not the fault of the moderators. They have been pretty good . They are sick of the way these threads are going as well.
There was a time when a lot of what happened here was about aircraft and aviation employment and help to fellow aviators.
A classic example is yesterday`s Ansett pilot meeting . I was invited to attend .
It was extremely professional very patriotic and in the long run quite positive.
The APA appears to be dedicated to the survival of its company.There is a massive comeradery and resolve.They really do have a business plan.It is an achievable . Quite a testimonial to human resolve really.
For example the thread "Ansett pilots are f##*ed is just rubbish". If you read these threads you will see the same people are writing the same stuff . (You will get excellent examples by most of the people who will tear this thread to bits.)
I am not in Ansett . I am not an 89er..
In fact I probably wont bother visiting here much any more because a great deal of the brilliant aviation enthusiasts that really use to let you know what was going on in the game , cant be bothered posting anymore. . The posts were informative accurate and newsworthy in some cases.
So please beware a lot of what is going on here is far from the real game..
Even though this thread is not designed to upset anyone I am sure it will, AND so, in advance, to those people, I apologise CHEERS
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Not a reporter (todays newspaper, tomorrows fish and chips). And ANFO I won't be drawn into an argument over who was 'top of the class'. It would appear you have few enough allies at the moment let alone getting more people that you've never met offside.
Have a nice day.
C22
Have a nice day.
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Thankyou for your post. I am an Ansett staff member (not crew of any kind) and I came here in the hope of finding out a little bit more of the Pilots initiated Buy Back scheme only to leave here yesterday feeling totally dejected and on the verge of tears by the negativity and rubbish put on here by so called "intelligent" human beings. I have been hanging on with hope that the pilots will be able to put together a plan that will enable this great airline to fly again and now that hope has returned.
Thanks for enlightening me regarding the motivation behind some of the posts on this board.
ANSETT WILL FLY AGAIN AND WE WILL BE BETTER AND I THINK ONE DAY BIGGER THAN EVER BEFORE.
Thanks for enlightening me regarding the motivation behind some of the posts on this board.
ANSETT WILL FLY AGAIN AND WE WILL BE BETTER AND I THINK ONE DAY BIGGER THAN EVER BEFORE.
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bgt,
Good post dude. Poor old Kaptin M is flogging himself, not a dead horse. He obviously doesn't listen, because just a few days ago another post told him (yet again) that his FOs are sick to death of him and his bloody whingeing, carping, negativity in the flight deck, and re-runs of how we wuz done in 89.
I say again what I said elsewhere a week or so ago. These 89ers are at best creating terrible personal stress for themselves, and at worst are mentally ill.
EireannAN,
Ignore most of the rubbish. If it's rubbish, it's probably emanating from some bitter pre 89 pilot. Most are decent types, but there are a few radical, ignorant, bigoted, thoughtless ******s who will try to poison everyone with whom they come in contact, and this type of person is epitomised by Kaptin M.
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: captainschlonger ]
Good post dude. Poor old Kaptin M is flogging himself, not a dead horse. He obviously doesn't listen, because just a few days ago another post told him (yet again) that his FOs are sick to death of him and his bloody whingeing, carping, negativity in the flight deck, and re-runs of how we wuz done in 89.
I say again what I said elsewhere a week or so ago. These 89ers are at best creating terrible personal stress for themselves, and at worst are mentally ill.
EireannAN,
Ignore most of the rubbish. If it's rubbish, it's probably emanating from some bitter pre 89 pilot. Most are decent types, but there are a few radical, ignorant, bigoted, thoughtless ******s who will try to poison everyone with whom they come in contact, and this type of person is epitomised by Kaptin M.
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: captainschlonger ]
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PPRUNE: Pilot's rumour network
If you do not like what you are reading then please change channels.
If you check all my posts I have not jumped on the 89 bandwagon until a few of our fellow ppruners started referring to the others as being anti-Australian if they were anti-Ansett. The response was that Anti-Australian is when you replace cheaper Australian Labour with more expensive Foreign Labour with the help of over $400 million.
I am genuinely sorry that 92% of the staff from an excellent service orientated company have to lose their jobs but to that group I ask them to remove themselves from what is displayed on these pages.
The 89 group had nobody to talk to 12 years ago about the loss of their jobs.
The 1300 pilots whom are considered 89ers thought that there was some group out there that would care but instead of the media pumped out the negative comments.
The news and apathy of our fellow Australians hounded many of us out of the country, out of Aviation, out of our families or for the ones who could not cope to something worse.
The ones who have survived this ordeal know how the AN pilots feel because we were there 12 years ago thinking it would be resolved in a few weeks: but instead it lasted 9 months When the government and the AFAP said we could go back; there was no job.
I know this is no consolation to the AN pilots who have lost their jobs but please understand how the AN pilots of 12 years ago felt.
The majority of the "dispute pilots" wish to forget about the events of 89 but can you blame this group for responding to comments that are opening old wounds.
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: Le Pilot ]
If you do not like what you are reading then please change channels.
If you check all my posts I have not jumped on the 89 bandwagon until a few of our fellow ppruners started referring to the others as being anti-Australian if they were anti-Ansett. The response was that Anti-Australian is when you replace cheaper Australian Labour with more expensive Foreign Labour with the help of over $400 million.
I am genuinely sorry that 92% of the staff from an excellent service orientated company have to lose their jobs but to that group I ask them to remove themselves from what is displayed on these pages.
The 89 group had nobody to talk to 12 years ago about the loss of their jobs.
The 1300 pilots whom are considered 89ers thought that there was some group out there that would care but instead of the media pumped out the negative comments.
The news and apathy of our fellow Australians hounded many of us out of the country, out of Aviation, out of our families or for the ones who could not cope to something worse.
The ones who have survived this ordeal know how the AN pilots feel because we were there 12 years ago thinking it would be resolved in a few weeks: but instead it lasted 9 months When the government and the AFAP said we could go back; there was no job.
I know this is no consolation to the AN pilots who have lost their jobs but please understand how the AN pilots of 12 years ago felt.
The majority of the "dispute pilots" wish to forget about the events of 89 but can you blame this group for responding to comments that are opening old wounds.
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: Le Pilot ]
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Le pilot,
I agree entirely, and there will be no further comment on the matter, nor baiting of Kaptin M. He's too easy.
Seriously though, I won't bother, and yours is a good post.
It's a bit like the Israelis and Palestinians isn't it? Who threw the first rock or fired the first shot? It seems to have been lost, and each claims it was the other.
Das Pferd,
Point taken. There will be no further comment.
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: captainschlonger ]
I agree entirely, and there will be no further comment on the matter, nor baiting of Kaptin M. He's too easy.
Seriously though, I won't bother, and yours is a good post.
It's a bit like the Israelis and Palestinians isn't it? Who threw the first rock or fired the first shot? It seems to have been lost, and each claims it was the other.
Das Pferd,
Point taken. There will be no further comment.
[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: captainschlonger ]
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We are a complicated bunch of individuals.
We all must have a similar makeup to be where we are today.
95 % of aviators are the lovliest people on this earth . Most would give you the shirt from their back.
Too the other 5% I ask you take a long hard look at yourselves a ask " am I REALLY like this" Why cant I change ?
How long is my life going to be?
Am I making the most of it ?
An Ansett pilot is reported to have committed suicide today .
Apparently because he thought he was unemployable due to the ANTI-SCAB movement.,and possibly due to a lot of the poison that has been posted right here.
I have written these type of posts for so long now.So I have to ask those responsible here. You know who you are.
WHEN IS ENOUGH ..........??????????
Please stop.
I am sorry my posts could not help him .
God bless him and the family he left behind.............
We all must have a similar makeup to be where we are today.
95 % of aviators are the lovliest people on this earth . Most would give you the shirt from their back.
Too the other 5% I ask you take a long hard look at yourselves a ask " am I REALLY like this" Why cant I change ?
How long is my life going to be?
Am I making the most of it ?
An Ansett pilot is reported to have committed suicide today .
Apparently because he thought he was unemployable due to the ANTI-SCAB movement.,and possibly due to a lot of the poison that has been posted right here.
I have written these type of posts for so long now.So I have to ask those responsible here. You know who you are.
WHEN IS ENOUGH ..........??????????
Please stop.
I am sorry my posts could not help him .
God bless him and the family he left behind.............
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Yes, I know families who broke up in '89 and cancers which have been cut out of pilots guts due to the "war" (PM's words) which was declared on the pilot body. Sadly, friends of mine are still on cancer death row from the stress.
Well, north of Darwin the rules do not apply & no one gives a s#it, especially about whinging white **** . So, AN drivers, get used to it. Believe me, it doesn't hurt nearly as much after it happens to you the 3rd time. This is the reality of the aviation world - for those of us who choose to stay in it.
Well, north of Darwin the rules do not apply & no one gives a s#it, especially about whinging white **** . So, AN drivers, get used to it. Believe me, it doesn't hurt nearly as much after it happens to you the 3rd time. This is the reality of the aviation world - for those of us who choose to stay in it.
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BGT et al
Those of us in the media who read, and very occasionally contribute to, pprune know who the '89 bores are.
Kaptin M's rants are, in their own perverse way, entertaining, not least of which for some truly twisted logic, and they offer an insight into the addled view of a group the media have long recognised as a minority and not representative of the majority of Australian aviators.
We also know that the demise of Ansett is a national loss, of a magnitude no one at this stage can possibly measure or determine and to single out those unfortunate pilots who have lost their jobs is unfair and simply fails to recognise the contribution to the national economy they have made since 1989.
The name calling, implied threats and general monstering evident in some posts and threads in prrune on the Ansett failure only demeans the posters and makes no useful contribution to the debate on Ansett's possible futures.
I, for one, hope that Ansett, in some form, returns to Australian skies on a permanent basis. This past weekend has been an encouraging start.
Those of us in the media who read, and very occasionally contribute to, pprune know who the '89 bores are.
Kaptin M's rants are, in their own perverse way, entertaining, not least of which for some truly twisted logic, and they offer an insight into the addled view of a group the media have long recognised as a minority and not representative of the majority of Australian aviators.
We also know that the demise of Ansett is a national loss, of a magnitude no one at this stage can possibly measure or determine and to single out those unfortunate pilots who have lost their jobs is unfair and simply fails to recognise the contribution to the national economy they have made since 1989.
The name calling, implied threats and general monstering evident in some posts and threads in prrune on the Ansett failure only demeans the posters and makes no useful contribution to the debate on Ansett's possible futures.
I, for one, hope that Ansett, in some form, returns to Australian skies on a permanent basis. This past weekend has been an encouraging start.
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bgt and tsnake,
Well put. I suppose those of us who put up a post contrary to KaptinM's beliefs are just feeding him. If we don't, then he looks even more stupid by continuing his rantings and ravings.
I've already said that those who continue in that vein are at best causing themselves terrible levels of personal stress, and any illnesses that may cause, and at worst, mentally ill. I still hold that belief.
Very sad about the AN pilot, if true.
Well put. I suppose those of us who put up a post contrary to KaptinM's beliefs are just feeding him. If we don't, then he looks even more stupid by continuing his rantings and ravings.
I've already said that those who continue in that vein are at best causing themselves terrible levels of personal stress, and any illnesses that may cause, and at worst, mentally ill. I still hold that belief.
Very sad about the AN pilot, if true.
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Hot end and others of the same ilk....
I don't often trawl the muddy waters of PPrune, but just drop in occasionally to see what's out there.
The recent demise of Ansett, and sadder still the demise of one of the Ansett Captains, an old friend of mine, seems to have brought out some of the worst characteristics in us all. Notwithstanding what happened in '89, and the broken lives/families, there is one thing that hits me when I read the posts.
It is the appearance of the same state of mind that caused the mind-blowing events in the States a couple of weeks ago:
a complete and utter inability to forgive.
An extreme analogy, you say?? Perhaps. But think about it.
I'm no Bible bashing Christian, or of any other religious persuasion, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that unrequited hatred not only kills yourself (slowly), but has the capacity to kill others in even greater numbers.
My point??
The human race cannot keep on going the way we do. Someone, somewhere, someplace is going to have to realise that we have to forgive, forget, and start anew.
It shouldn't have to take the death of a colleague to bring this all out either. God knows there is enough info floating around to tell us what to do. It ranges from the bible to the self-help section of the local bookstore.
Anyone feeling down, depressed, angry, full of hate and bitterness, Please, get some help before any more of us keel over.
I don't often trawl the muddy waters of PPrune, but just drop in occasionally to see what's out there.
The recent demise of Ansett, and sadder still the demise of one of the Ansett Captains, an old friend of mine, seems to have brought out some of the worst characteristics in us all. Notwithstanding what happened in '89, and the broken lives/families, there is one thing that hits me when I read the posts.
It is the appearance of the same state of mind that caused the mind-blowing events in the States a couple of weeks ago:
a complete and utter inability to forgive.
An extreme analogy, you say?? Perhaps. But think about it.
I'm no Bible bashing Christian, or of any other religious persuasion, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that unrequited hatred not only kills yourself (slowly), but has the capacity to kill others in even greater numbers.
My point??
The human race cannot keep on going the way we do. Someone, somewhere, someplace is going to have to realise that we have to forgive, forget, and start anew.
It shouldn't have to take the death of a colleague to bring this all out either. God knows there is enough info floating around to tell us what to do. It ranges from the bible to the self-help section of the local bookstore.
Anyone feeling down, depressed, angry, full of hate and bitterness, Please, get some help before any more of us keel over.
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Nman,
I agree. Sure, this is a traumatic time for many, but ultimately, it's only a bloody job. It's just another hiccup in life, so if you're feeling flat, do something about it. Life is short enough without making it shorter, either through self imposed stress or even worse.
I agree. Sure, this is a traumatic time for many, but ultimately, it's only a bloody job. It's just another hiccup in life, so if you're feeling flat, do something about it. Life is short enough without making it shorter, either through self imposed stress or even worse.
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Missing the point, captain-s.
I'm fine. Not so sure about others, though, and the effect that some questionable posts are having on the emotional/mental well-being of them.
History shows that this forgiveness versus hate thing causes small problems like:
Tha Balkans....started around the 16th century, and still going strong;
Northern Ireland....started a couple of hundred years ago, still going strong;
Israel/Palestine....started God knows when, still going strong;
Northern Spain, etc etc
I realise that this is not quite of the same magnitude, but the principles are identical.
It has been suggested that one of the contributary factors in the suicide was the fact that he felt he would never get another job flying, in part due to the possibility of being on so called 'scab lists'.
THATS what I'm talking about, amongst other things. The hope that some of the more angry 89ers will somehow find it in themselves to forgive whatever wrong they perceive has been done to them.
I'm fine. Not so sure about others, though, and the effect that some questionable posts are having on the emotional/mental well-being of them.
History shows that this forgiveness versus hate thing causes small problems like:
Tha Balkans....started around the 16th century, and still going strong;
Northern Ireland....started a couple of hundred years ago, still going strong;
Israel/Palestine....started God knows when, still going strong;
Northern Spain, etc etc
I realise that this is not quite of the same magnitude, but the principles are identical.
It has been suggested that one of the contributary factors in the suicide was the fact that he felt he would never get another job flying, in part due to the possibility of being on so called 'scab lists'.
THATS what I'm talking about, amongst other things. The hope that some of the more angry 89ers will somehow find it in themselves to forgive whatever wrong they perceive has been done to them.
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Nman,
I got your point. I hope they do too, but I'm not too confident.
The point I made was that it is, after all, only a bloody job. Well paid, but only a job.
But I say it again, get over it fellas. Life is just too short to do this to yourselves, or anybody else for that matter.
I got your point. I hope they do too, but I'm not too confident.
The point I made was that it is, after all, only a bloody job. Well paid, but only a job.
But I say it again, get over it fellas. Life is just too short to do this to yourselves, or anybody else for that matter.
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Everyone's soooo philisophical now!
You all make a mistake in branding the non scabs as sick, needing help etc.
You see, it is we who have all moved on, picked up our lives, and put it all behind us. We are mostly all doing quite well now, because we've had 12 years to do it.
The scabs of that time are now simply experiencing what we experienced then - and don't seem to be handling it too well from most reports.
And far from schlongers assertion that we are boring our F/O's to death, I understand the boot was squarely on the other foot - the scabs spent endless hours guiltily attempting to justify their trecherous actions of the time to THEIR captive audience. (Most of our F/O's are not native english speakers, and are just as ignorant of, and disinterested in, the events of '89)
BTW schlong - I thought you were not going to post anymore!
So don't try to take the high moral ground here - you don't own it at all! I don't need any "help" in dealing with '89 - I've accepted the result years ago.
I'm not sick, or consumed by hate - I simply choose not to forget the treachery of some of my former friends. Simple as that.
You all make a mistake in branding the non scabs as sick, needing help etc.
You see, it is we who have all moved on, picked up our lives, and put it all behind us. We are mostly all doing quite well now, because we've had 12 years to do it.
The scabs of that time are now simply experiencing what we experienced then - and don't seem to be handling it too well from most reports.
And far from schlongers assertion that we are boring our F/O's to death, I understand the boot was squarely on the other foot - the scabs spent endless hours guiltily attempting to justify their trecherous actions of the time to THEIR captive audience. (Most of our F/O's are not native english speakers, and are just as ignorant of, and disinterested in, the events of '89)
BTW schlong - I thought you were not going to post anymore!
So don't try to take the high moral ground here - you don't own it at all! I don't need any "help" in dealing with '89 - I've accepted the result years ago.
I'm not sick, or consumed by hate - I simply choose not to forget the treachery of some of my former friends. Simple as that.