Rex and the Media Release
Join Date: Aug 2003
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So they're not making enough money out of flying their routes? Easy, switch to making money out of training prospective employees. At $80k a pop for training and then 5 to 6-year bond at the basic award wage should help to keep a healthy bottom line.
50% up front loan PLUS INTEREST!(10% calculated monthely). Don't forget your $2000 bond before you start.
Total time 147 SE + 20 ME
At least the REX FAQs don't say "new" Piper Seminoles....
Chips
50% up front loan PLUS INTEREST!(10% calculated monthely). Don't forget your $2000 bond before you start.
Total time 147 SE + 20 ME
At least the REX FAQs don't say "new" Piper Seminoles....
Chips
OK!,
So Jim Davis has released the details. By reading between the lines it appears that in order to accumulate the required multi-engine time for command, they will be farmed out to Airlink to fly the Cheiftains on Dave's RPT! A most daunting experience for even the most seasoned aviators. But probably the only viable way of doing it. Airlink is not the largest operator around, so it will take quite some time to move all cadets through?
Capt Davis mentioned that a "good" cadet may qualify for command in 4 years! I would suggest boys and girls that that the reality for the majority will lie over a much greater time frame.
And there lies the real problem. Commands at REX are currently running at little more than a year! Do you see my point Jim?
I have said it before, the decimation of the ranks of suitably qualified candidates has been the result of the industry's own doing. The sausage factory solution will only go so far. Unless REX does something to retain it's experienced crews, the airline will be out of business long before the first "good" cadet see's the left seat of a Saab!
So Jim Davis has released the details. By reading between the lines it appears that in order to accumulate the required multi-engine time for command, they will be farmed out to Airlink to fly the Cheiftains on Dave's RPT! A most daunting experience for even the most seasoned aviators. But probably the only viable way of doing it. Airlink is not the largest operator around, so it will take quite some time to move all cadets through?
Capt Davis mentioned that a "good" cadet may qualify for command in 4 years! I would suggest boys and girls that that the reality for the majority will lie over a much greater time frame.
And there lies the real problem. Commands at REX are currently running at little more than a year! Do you see my point Jim?
I have said it before, the decimation of the ranks of suitably qualified candidates has been the result of the industry's own doing. The sausage factory solution will only go so far. Unless REX does something to retain it's experienced crews, the airline will be out of business long before the first "good" cadet see's the left seat of a Saab!
I don't see what is so bad about the deal on offer, 80K training in new aircraft inlcuding accommodation and food for 32 weeks, then guaranteed PAID work starting in multi engine aircraft(possibly turbine) with repayments from salary.
Compared to,
60K training costs with loan from bank with rates going up, another 20k for upgrades and etc, another 20k to move around country finding work etc... all on GA wages for a minimum of 2 years!
Not saying its the best deal ever in aviation but it definately is not the worst!
Compared to,
60K training costs with loan from bank with rates going up, another 20k for upgrades and etc, another 20k to move around country finding work etc... all on GA wages for a minimum of 2 years!
Not saying its the best deal ever in aviation but it definately is not the worst!
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Ah well - i don't quite see how you are guaranteed any employment actually after spending your approximate 80K! You have to successfully pass the course first!
Rex is just going to be known as the trainee airline in the public domain. Simply a two dollar tin-pot outfit.
They need to do what they have never wanted to do ever before - and that is simply to start paying the correct wage.
Rex is just going to be known as the trainee airline in the public domain. Simply a two dollar tin-pot outfit.
They need to do what they have never wanted to do ever before - and that is simply to start paying the correct wage.
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43Inches - On the surface it looks like a good deal but REX aint doing this out of the goodness of their hearts 
The thing that is concerning is ATPL subjects are not included in this program. Will REX give pilots a couple of months of work to finish them while they work them to the bone? I doubt it! Cadets will be in the RHS for many years to come which will not solve the problem of retaining/finding experienced Captains.
The thing that is concerning is ATPL subjects are not included in this program. Will REX give pilots a couple of months of work to finish them while they work them to the bone? I doubt it! Cadets will be in the RHS for many years to come which will not solve the problem of retaining/finding experienced Captains.
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hi guys just did a google search and read this whole topic.. i also came across the rex thing from the afap site. im intrested in the cadet program but not so excited and sure about it anymore sounded like a great deal at first.. get education paid for like a loan and guaranteed a job with them straight away.
though for half that amount i think i will probably be doing this still having problems geting money but will eventualy get it to do the course,
the amount of hours in this training is alot better than rex and this is comand time i get not like First officer time offered by Rex.
•
22 hours dual training – Tecnam / C152
•
94 hours pilot in command – Tecnam / C152
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25 hours dual training – C172 / PA28 / TB10
•
36 hours pilot in command – C172 / PA28 / TB10
•
25 hours dual training - PA30 / BE76 / PN68
•
35 hours simulator – AT11i
Course fee
: $48,560.
Included in the above fee:
•
Flight training:
"
Dual training
"
Solo training
"
Aircraft hire
"
Simulator training
•
Insurance
•
Fuel
•
Pre flight briefings
•
Post flight de-briefings
•
Theory courses
Not included in the above fee:
•
Pilot Support Pack – see page 24 for details.
•
Medical expenses, uniform, re-test fees and additional flying beyond hours stated above.
i could possibly somehow live.. off 40 a yr. but i would only do it to gain my hours with metro or turbine aircraft so i can move to a big airline and fly the big boys.
any advice for me guys. should i hold for hope and maybe if i get accepted by rex join it and be 80g in debt though guaranteed a job and flying expirience, or should i stick with this original plan course i would be applying for.
is there really lots of jobs out there for pilots. so the rumours say, will i be able to find a good job with good pay with the training i receive?
thanks any advice would be greatly apreciated
any advice for me guys. should i hold for hope and maybe if i get accepted by rex join it and be 80g in debt though guaranteed a job and flying expirience, or should i stick with this original plan course i would be applying for.
is there really lots of jobs out there for pilots. so the rumours say, will i be able to find a good job with good pay with the training i receive?
thanks any advice would be greatly apreciated
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For All those considering the cadetship, something to think about.
Lets do a hypothetical: You apply for the cadetship, and automatically qualify for loan for the first part of the fee ($40,000).
Because you are a diligent student, you are granted a full ($40,000) Scholarship for the second part of the course fee.
You complete the course, gain employment in the rex group. The FAQ is not entirely clear as to what the interest rate actually is for the loan if 6 full years (72 months) employment is completed. Further the repayment schedule is non-standard to reduce the initial payments.
However we will only consider a standard payment schedule
For the loan principle ($40,000), lets assume that the rate is 5.0% & the loan is repaid over 6 full years (72 monthly periods), the monthly payment is $644.20
Further, the scholarship is compounding away at 10%, calculated monthly.
73rd Month of employment, total loan =$0.00 (scholarship forgiven), total repaid =$46,382.21
Note, This conservative as if five years (60 months) employment is not completed, the Loan component is recalculated at 10% compound interest & the loan repayment schedule is non-standard, reducing principle repayment initially, increasing amount outstanding later on.
This is my own interpretation of the FAQ information provided.
It is going to be very expensive to walk out the door prior to completing 72 months of employment.
Lets do a hypothetical: You apply for the cadetship, and automatically qualify for loan for the first part of the fee ($40,000).
Because you are a diligent student, you are granted a full ($40,000) Scholarship for the second part of the course fee.
You complete the course, gain employment in the rex group. The FAQ is not entirely clear as to what the interest rate actually is for the loan if 6 full years (72 months) employment is completed. Further the repayment schedule is non-standard to reduce the initial payments.
However we will only consider a standard payment schedule
For the loan principle ($40,000), lets assume that the rate is 5.0% & the loan is repaid over 6 full years (72 monthly periods), the monthly payment is $644.20
Further, the scholarship is compounding away at 10%, calculated monthly.
Year____Loan___________ Scholarship_____Total Owed
0 ______$40,000.00______ $40,000.00______ $80,000.00
1______ $34,136.47______ $44,188.52______ $78,324.99
2______ $27,972.95______ $48,815.64______ $76,788.59
3______ $21,494.09______ $53,927.27______ $75,421.37
4______ $14,683.77______ $59,574.16______ $74,257.93
5______ $7525.01________$65,812.36______ $73,337.37
6______ $0.00___________$72,703.77______ $72,703.77
0 ______$40,000.00______ $40,000.00______ $80,000.00
1______ $34,136.47______ $44,188.52______ $78,324.99
2______ $27,972.95______ $48,815.64______ $76,788.59
3______ $21,494.09______ $53,927.27______ $75,421.37
4______ $14,683.77______ $59,574.16______ $74,257.93
5______ $7525.01________$65,812.36______ $73,337.37
6______ $0.00___________$72,703.77______ $72,703.77
73rd Month of employment, total loan =$0.00 (scholarship forgiven), total repaid =$46,382.21
Note, This conservative as if five years (60 months) employment is not completed, the Loan component is recalculated at 10% compound interest & the loan repayment schedule is non-standard, reducing principle repayment initially, increasing amount outstanding later on.
This is my own interpretation of the FAQ information provided.
It is going to be very expensive to walk out the door prior to completing 72 months of employment.
Metrosexual
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'Employment In The REX Group"
So, this is going to get real interesting.
Picture this:
An inexperienced Metro III Captain teamed up with a fresh 'graduate' as FO on a Pelair Express night-freight run YSSY-YSCB-YMML, or the YSSY - YMML or YMML-YSSY legs.
Summer: Frontal storms from YSSY to YMML.
Winter: Fog in ML, AY, AV, WG, CB, NW, WLM, BTH etc - and a few times with FG at SY and BK.
Flightwatch info available only via FS - workload permitting.
ATC using un-rated ATCer's during rated controllers 'breaks'.
No fancy EFIS as used in training - only the 'TSO'd Garmin 100 .
Back of the clock operations.
20-30 year old recycled pieces-of-turbine-****e with very average anti/de-icing equipment (just to give a false sense of security)
A general lack of situational awareness that most of the new 'up and coming, low timers' have.
Obviously, someone thought this whole thing through.
Put a bullet in the chamber, and spin the barrell
Picture this:
An inexperienced Metro III Captain teamed up with a fresh 'graduate' as FO on a Pelair Express night-freight run YSSY-YSCB-YMML, or the YSSY - YMML or YMML-YSSY legs.
Summer: Frontal storms from YSSY to YMML.
Winter: Fog in ML, AY, AV, WG, CB, NW, WLM, BTH etc - and a few times with FG at SY and BK.
Flightwatch info available only via FS - workload permitting.
ATC using un-rated ATCer's during rated controllers 'breaks'.
No fancy EFIS as used in training - only the 'TSO'd Garmin 100
.Back of the clock operations.
20-30 year old recycled pieces-of-turbine-****e with very average anti/de-icing equipment (just to give a false sense of security)
A general lack of situational awareness that most of the new 'up and coming, low timers' have.
Obviously, someone thought this whole thing through.
Put a bullet in the chamber, and spin the barrell
Last edited by Jet_A_Knight; 2nd Nov 2007 at 22:01.
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From the Rex Cadet Scheme Q&A
If resigning within the 5 years, the outstanding Principal plus interest will be due and payable immediately. The interest is calculated at 10% on a monthly rest basis.
Picture this in 2010.
"Dad you know all that money we saved getting Rex to sponsor me for my flying training instead of you paying for it like those older pilots had to".
"Yes Son what a ripper of a scheme that was"
"Well Dad VB (or Qantas/Tiger/Cathay) have offered me a job and I am two years into my time with Rex and now have a chance to be an airline pilot which is what I wanted all along. As you know Rex want me to stay for five years but the way I see things is if I do not take this opportunity now to jump ship now I may not get another shot at the airlines".
"Well son if you leave Rex now they will want your training money paid back but as you will recall we planned back in 2007 for this situation to arise so the money has been kept aside since so I say go for the airline job and we will send them the cheque regardless".
If Rex believe in this world where loyalty counts for nothing this will not happen then hold on to your seat - it will.
Picture this in 2010.
"Dad you know all that money we saved getting Rex to sponsor me for my flying training instead of you paying for it like those older pilots had to".
"Yes Son what a ripper of a scheme that was"
"Well Dad VB (or Qantas/Tiger/Cathay) have offered me a job and I am two years into my time with Rex and now have a chance to be an airline pilot which is what I wanted all along. As you know Rex want me to stay for five years but the way I see things is if I do not take this opportunity now to jump ship now I may not get another shot at the airlines".
"Well son if you leave Rex now they will want your training money paid back but as you will recall we planned back in 2007 for this situation to arise so the money has been kept aside since so I say go for the airline job and we will send them the cheque regardless".
If Rex believe in this world where loyalty counts for nothing this will not happen then hold on to your seat - it will.
One possible scenerio Barra...
Another is that the cadet will leave REX without any capacity to pay. REX will then spend the next several years in court trying to get the money. It's happened already with bonding, and to date they have spent a lot of money for no result!
This of course assumes that the cadet has the quals for that "Golden" airline job. After 2 years with REX, despite the B.S. of the Cheif of staff, the cadet will not possess anywhere near the required multi-command time for any real airline position.
Those positions will be filled by the remaining multi-qualified pilots that REX, QF-Link, et'al, did not see any advantage in trying to retain.
I am afraid to say that many of the cadets will be leaving REX in the next 2 years, but not for the reasons they imagined!
Another is that the cadet will leave REX without any capacity to pay. REX will then spend the next several years in court trying to get the money. It's happened already with bonding, and to date they have spent a lot of money for no result!
This of course assumes that the cadet has the quals for that "Golden" airline job. After 2 years with REX, despite the B.S. of the Cheif of staff, the cadet will not possess anywhere near the required multi-command time for any real airline position.
Those positions will be filled by the remaining multi-qualified pilots that REX, QF-Link, et'al, did not see any advantage in trying to retain.
I am afraid to say that many of the cadets will be leaving REX in the next 2 years, but not for the reasons they imagined!
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Quote;
The scholarship will be in the form of a loan which will be forgiven if the cadet stays 6 years with Rex.
And if Rex folded who is liable for the loan?. Check the fine print kiddies.
Krusty - There is no real worries about someone shooting through without paying.
In the business world packages to entice employees is as old as moses and I guarantee recruiting airlines will soon offer a loans to future prospective employees they really want to pay out their bond to Rex in return for their undying loyalty which after all would be assured as the candidate finally reaches the pinnacle of their career.
200 hour co-pilots on a stormy night, crap weather at the minimums, high workload and inexperience coupled with a captain thats incapacitated - cheery thought - not!!.
Rex - Employ those not attracted or attractive to airlines - older and experienced pilots!!.
The scholarship will be in the form of a loan which will be forgiven if the cadet stays 6 years with Rex.
And if Rex folded who is liable for the loan?. Check the fine print kiddies.
Krusty - There is no real worries about someone shooting through without paying.
In the business world packages to entice employees is as old as moses and I guarantee recruiting airlines will soon offer a loans to future prospective employees they really want to pay out their bond to Rex in return for their undying loyalty which after all would be assured as the candidate finally reaches the pinnacle of their career.
200 hour co-pilots on a stormy night, crap weather at the minimums, high workload and inexperience coupled with a captain thats incapacitated - cheery thought - not!!.
Rex - Employ those not attracted or attractive to airlines - older and experienced pilots!!.
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So is incapacitation of the captain a regular occurence at REX then?
I thought that was when the GFPT holder sitting in seat 12A came forward and saved the day.....
and yes, tongue is firmly in cheek, for those that aren't sure......
I thought that was when the GFPT holder sitting in seat 12A came forward and saved the day.....
and yes, tongue is firmly in cheek, for those that aren't sure......
Metrosexual
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plus allowances (most tax free)
So you would rather the 200 hr inexperienced pilot with inferior training to be crossing the straight with crayfish for company, comforting for their kin
As for the crayfish, they're already 'dead fish walking'.
It has been said: "Experience means nothing".
Metrosexual
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43" ...
1. Exactly which allowances are tax free?
2. If you really cared about travellers, and had any idea, you would understand that all things being equal, experience up the front is what is important.
The crew is the most flexible and usually, last line of defense, when things go wrong.
I can unequivically tell you, that from what i have seen in the last year or so as a standard of 'low time up and coming' crews - some of them regarded as 'switched on' and 'hotshots', they have no place in the front of a passenger or freight turboprop - luckily there have still been some experienced captains to 'hold their hands'.
That's all changing now - and we are staring a regional or freight turboprop accident in the face - within 2 years.
Unless the luck holds out.
But hey, whilst the luck holds out - no need to pay the money or dish out the conditions and respect to hold on to the 'career regional drivers' who could pass on some very valuable experience - some of it actually hard fought and won - even over the strait at night.
1. Exactly which allowances are tax free?
2. If you really cared about travellers, and had any idea, you would understand that all things being equal, experience up the front is what is important.
The crew is the most flexible and usually, last line of defense, when things go wrong.
I can unequivically tell you, that from what i have seen in the last year or so as a standard of 'low time up and coming' crews - some of them regarded as 'switched on' and 'hotshots', they have no place in the front of a passenger or freight turboprop - luckily there have still been some experienced captains to 'hold their hands'.
That's all changing now - and we are staring a regional or freight turboprop accident in the face - within 2 years.
Unless the luck holds out.
But hey, whilst the luck holds out - no need to pay the money or dish out the conditions and respect to hold on to the 'career regional drivers' who could pass on some very valuable experience - some of it actually hard fought and won - even over the strait at night.
Experience is worth nothing if you have not experienced the problem at hand. To be ahead of the game requires adequate training from people that have knowledge and training with regard to past experience collectively and the vigilance to maintain standard.
I have flown with low timers that outshine high timers because their attitude and awareness towards their job is superior. Its the selection process, training and checking that ensure safety not hours!
I have flown with low timers that outshine high timers because their attitude and awareness towards their job is superior. Its the selection process, training and checking that ensure safety not hours!
Jet _A..,
Well said.
Mr 43,
not exactly sure where you're coming from mate?
I don't think anybody in their right mind would call what a REX pilot (especially a first year F/O) earns as being "good hours and pay". Add to that the expense of a massive loan, the almost zero prospect of command, and a contract that effectively prevents the cadet from moving on. What you will have, is an underclass of diseffected people surrounded by a shrinking and cynical group of senior pilots who will jump ship at the first opportunity!
To be honest, I'll be surprised if it works at all.
Finally, it will take much more than a "small increase" in conditions to make REX a very good place to work.
If you work for REX, then I am suspicious of your motives. If you don't, then you clearly don't know what you're talking about!
Well said.
Mr 43,
not exactly sure where you're coming from mate?
I don't think anybody in their right mind would call what a REX pilot (especially a first year F/O) earns as being "good hours and pay". Add to that the expense of a massive loan, the almost zero prospect of command, and a contract that effectively prevents the cadet from moving on. What you will have, is an underclass of diseffected people surrounded by a shrinking and cynical group of senior pilots who will jump ship at the first opportunity!
To be honest, I'll be surprised if it works at all.
Finally, it will take much more than a "small increase" in conditions to make REX a very good place to work.
If you work for REX, then I am suspicious of your motives. If you don't, then you clearly don't know what you're talking about!
I dont believe pay is adequate at REX and conditions have some ground to make, but, remember that pilots themselves agreed to the current arrangement.
As far as the cadetship goes i'am only comparing it with what is currently available on the market to be fair to those applying for it, if you have a better solution for people entering the market then voice your opinion.
As far as the cadetship goes i'am only comparing it with what is currently available on the market to be fair to those applying for it, if you have a better solution for people entering the market then voice your opinion.
Ok 43 inches, I'll bite!
Beleive it or not I am not ideoligically opposed to cadets. I have stated before that because of the state of the industry, it may be inevitable in one form or another. Whether or not a cadet comes up to scratch will depend on a number of factors, and in fact is a whole other subject.
What I am opposed to is a scheme that will create an underclass within REX.
What I am opposed to is REX management failing to take any sort of responsibility for the situation we now find ourselves in.
Jim Davis has stated that the reason young Australians have deserted the industry is because of the expense. Well I've got news for you, It's always been expensive! In the past, I've worked 3 Jobs at once to help make the Dream a reality.
The reality now is that the dream has lost much of it's appeal. Apart from driving down wages and conditions, what has the industry done in the last 10-15 years to encourage people to take up the profession?
The reality is, that at the current rate of attrition, in 3 years REX will have very few pilots left that can legally hold a command!
The appetite for pilots for the major airlines over the next 3 years will be ravenous. If REX does not do something to retain their existing pilots, then all the cadet schemes in the world will not save the company.
If I'm wrong, I will say oh! I was wrong.
If I'm right, then REX is scr@wed!
Beleive it or not I am not ideoligically opposed to cadets. I have stated before that because of the state of the industry, it may be inevitable in one form or another. Whether or not a cadet comes up to scratch will depend on a number of factors, and in fact is a whole other subject.
What I am opposed to is a scheme that will create an underclass within REX.
What I am opposed to is REX management failing to take any sort of responsibility for the situation we now find ourselves in.
Jim Davis has stated that the reason young Australians have deserted the industry is because of the expense. Well I've got news for you, It's always been expensive! In the past, I've worked 3 Jobs at once to help make the Dream a reality.
The reality now is that the dream has lost much of it's appeal. Apart from driving down wages and conditions, what has the industry done in the last 10-15 years to encourage people to take up the profession?
The reality is, that at the current rate of attrition, in 3 years REX will have very few pilots left that can legally hold a command!
The appetite for pilots for the major airlines over the next 3 years will be ravenous. If REX does not do something to retain their existing pilots, then all the cadet schemes in the world will not save the company.
If I'm wrong, I will say oh! I was wrong.
If I'm right, then REX is scr@wed!