W-10 unexpected update
 

Been ignoring the W-10 updates for a while (by using the X=close, not any of the buttons. Anyway a few days ago I left my computer running, early evening, and went off to watch the tele. Only things running were Outlook (Office) and Firefox. Came back to my computer sometime later, on my way to bed, woke up the screen to switch it off and was faced with a 'Welcome to Windows 10' message. Damn thing had updated itself while I was away from it, without any request from me.

A couple of days after this MadsMum went to wake up her laptop, first thing in the morning, only to find that it was in the middle of an unrequested W-10 update. Then she was chatting to a friend of hers, mentioned this and the friend had had an unexplained update as well.

Something odd happening (I would suspect they have changed one of the boxes from 'Tick if you want this' to 'Tick if you don't want this' but that's just me being suspicious.

I'm pressing on with my PC on W10, mainly because I got a free upgrade to 64bit, but all in all, I've joined others in thinking Ten is not in the customer's best interests. There are some features that I'd miss, but really not worth the learning curve and the day to day interference with what should be the most private and secure possession we own. Cue for a jolly good laugh.

The other night, my pal's daughter suddenly found W10 on her machine. She was at the latter stages - the last hours - of swatting for a final exam in her profession. It was her great fortune that her dad had got used to Ten, but still a PITA.

My i7 Vaio ran W10 well, apart from there being no drivers. Sony have "sold Vaio to a group of investors", and a backup call to the States confirmed the sorry tale. 'That's why we're not investing in writing drivers for older computers'. Older? I suppose. But an i7 high-end machine?!?!

So, a total fresh W7 load. It was soon up to date and Authenticated but last night, I had the first of the W10 evil dæmons leaping onto my screen. More time spent I suppose going through the treads of how to stop them but in the meantime updates and/or the wifi switch will be off.

Oh, and one more thing. My trick for not accepting updates when on the Shutdown Button, was to Restart, and then pull the plug in the off moment. Now, it will show the Shutdown or Restart!!! FFS! What if you're working on a problem and have to reboot? The nerds show no mercy.

I know very little about computers and I was told that if the upgrade message was in the centre of the screen it was not genuine. Therefore, when I got it I just switched my computer off and, so far, it has stayed with Windows 7 and is working OK.

Today, my wife was playing some game on hers using Windows 8 and, in the middle of a game, the upgrade window came up and she switched off the computer. When she switches it on again, it just continues the upgrade to Windows 10.

My question is, how does one know if this is a genuine upgrade? If it isn't genuine, what pitfalls does it contain for the unwary?

Apparently Microsoft have changed the way the update reminder works. Clicking the red cross will initiate the update

Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick' - BBC News

Obviously not getting the uptake they wanted.

I had a sudden undemanded W10 upgrade starting so I switched the computer off. That was three days ago and I have not had any further invitations yet.

Can you still roll back to W7 after performing a W10 upgrade - within 30 days?

That's how I got back to W7 after an requested update.

The W10 Update - Change in Rules
 

There appears to be two elements that constitute a breach of established custom and practice:

One: the originator of the code access module ((A party to a contract) by commercial transaction) has arbitrary changed the interface; of critical useage without the user's consent to invoke a change of an established contract by pattern of interaction (Explicit or Implied) without prior notice.

Two: The mechanism employed: denies one or more of the parties to the contract established; by virtue of the process of purchase and employed contractual rights within - ( to be specified and established) the right to fairly and with consent challenge the change of contract.

Any lawyers out there ?

CAT III

. . . but I do miss my computer. :{




Well, thanks for the warning not to press the little X. Tonight the dæmons from Hell tried again. FFS, I've done the Ten thing, and gone back to 7. How long does one have to play their game?

I have several friends who have woken their computers in recent weeks to find themselves with a W10 machine, some when they thought they had said NO to all of the seductive messages from Micro$oft offering a whole new way of computing life if they accept.

Sadly that's become more factual than even the boffins at M$ perhaps foresaw. I know of a couple who lost the use of their printers and scanner. Some were able to be rescued after a visit to the local technician (for a fee of course).

One other who cheerfully accepted the upgrade from Vista on his laptop right at the start of the W10 onslaught discovered just this. Unfortunately there seemed to be no solution for this when he last spoke to me - his functional computer system had been reduced to a virtually useless collection of equipment for much of his everyday computer work.

I wrestle with the word "unethical" here. Perhaps it's the right description, perhaps it's too soft. There are other descriptions I could use for a company who is operating in this way, but I shall refrain from so doing - in print at least. :mad:

FOR

PS I formally replaced my XP travel netbook yesterday with a new Dell - running W10 of course. I spent couple of hours yesterday removing the unwanted and installing Classic Shell. It's beginning to look more like something I can work with, but there's still a way to go ....

Just happened to me - mrsr1 was presented with the upgrade dialogue box, but was afraid to touch anything and it went ahead anyway. Many peripherals don't have drivers for w10. Took me 5 minutes to work out how to shut the PC down. Takes about 6 clicks now to do what one did before...

Microsoft have truly gone insane. My next Windows PC will be used for gaming and... that's it.

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm From Steve Gibson of Spinrite fame. He codes in assembler.

Program stops Win 10 upgrades and removes the downloaded huge folder the upgrade uses.

IBMJunkman

I think Steve Gibson has written "Never 10" in a script this time using Microsoft’s own Group Policy Manager to deliberately and legitimately invoke the policy controls to prevent Microsoft running the offending updates.

Declaration: I am a Spinwrite owner and regularly listen to the commercial podcasts. (Spinwrite only used in action once) - Please correct me if I'm wrong - Anyone.

CAT III

I read some place, that the problem is the red cross close button of the dialogue pop-up. It is said to activate the update. To decline, a button must be pressed.

Funny, it's been my SOP for years to press the red cross instead of any NO or CANCEL, possibly spoof buttons on *various* websites for years.

I've used GWX Control Panel (free download) which does a similar job to Never10... so far it's doing the job.
Monthly subscription in the future for W10 I fear.

Well, a senior MS bod made the unequivocal statement that folk getting W10 now will NEVER pay. It's one of the reasons I let it load on three of my five machines. Just what is driving MS to play this game? I can't see p1$$1ng off half the world can be in their interest.

I wish I had a copy of that presentation but it was live in front of a lot of people so should be as solid as any other MS promise. (long sigh)

Two 'up/de-graded were Vaio's so no Fn key drivers. Most of the rest (of the computers' functioning) worked okay, though the S1 button, (quite handy) now has to be accessed via Control panel. But no biggie.

I think I'll have a bash at the Never 10 on my i7 Vaio, but I bet you, MS will know it's there.




.

A Query ?
 

"Well, a senior MS bod made the unequivocal statement that folk getting W10 now will NEVER pay."

I'm taking that statement literally and surmise that people upgrading to this iteration of Win 10 within the "Free upgrade" period will not pay.

This leaves the people who install/upgrade after the promotional period ?

Software as a service - In other words a subscription model (Microsoft are a for profit business).

Users are locked in to a subscription in perpetuity and there's nothing contradictory in Microsoft saying at some future stage after a number of iterations of the upgrade process, well its in effect a New Operating system through evolution - Please Pay.

Up to now for single users; you paid for the (Licence of ) an operating system and a stated time interval of support, either indirectly or directly by purchase.(Bulk agreements not withstanding).

The new revenue model subserviates the user in time for ever. A Master/Slave relationship where Microsoft hold all the cards and remember this will apply to Outlook/Office and other utilities in time.

Edit: Heaven knows what they might do if you UN-install Win 10 at a future stage.

Win 8.1 will be my last Microsoft operating system. Loose Rivits its profit that motivates Microsoft to Pi$$$ off half the world. As a company they about to fail through a false belief in their own invincibility.

CAT III

Desperation. For some years in the 90s, Windows was really the only game in town for consumer use. Macs didn't have the software, Linux was a hackers' toy, and Unix was ten times the price. Microsoft had it easy, and people queued up to buy the new version of Windows.

Now, most people will be happier with an iPad than a Windows PC, and they can't even give away the new version of Windows. Microsoft are desperately trying to find some way to remain relevant, and lock users into Windows before it's too late. They've already locked down the PC BIOS to keep other operating systems off 'their' hardware, now they want to lock down applications so they can only be installed through their App Store, and you can't just keep running the same old app on the same old PC that you've had for years. Subscription fees for Windows will surely be next.

personally I thought MS lost it with Win8 which was absolutely dire , had Ab or Boeing done similar we would have seen planes falling from the sky daily. In the end I had to but anew PC and so have gone along with Win10 , its not very good but the lesser of two evils , however I think MS have completely lost the trust of their customer base with these actions and going to subscription for Win10 and upgrades with drive a huge proportion of their customer base to Apple and Google. Mostly to G I think unless Apple change their policy of overpricing everything, I think they fail to realize that the age of brandign is coming to an end as more and more people realize the badge isnt worth the cost.


Cue the Koreans and Chinas to step in with cheaper , functional and sensible PCs based on Android and together with the move to tablets its bye bye MS

MicroSoft and a comparison to the hardware side.

I'm mindful of IBM when it was the 'biggest' company on Earth. "Nobody ever got sacked for buying IBM" Then, when everything was going so well, for some unknown reason they gave away the PC's architecture, probably thinking no one would be able to replicated it - or at least, not want to.

My company was started by buying surplus IBM dealer stock - forced upon them by the threat of losing their dealership - but soon I was buying clone motherboards for my own workstations because they were a fraction of the price and substantially faster. For a while IBM seemed to be doing little about it, though it was said that, in desperation, IBM claimed the rights to the BIOS - the look and feel, the very concept of. The electronics world held its breath, but not for long.

Comdex Fall was a sight to behold. The miles of carpets in the Sands convention centre alone, were of fabulous quality and due to be thrown away after the show. The week we'd allowed was nowhere near enough for all the venues and it was obvious the inertia of the industry was so huge not even 'the biggest company' could hold back the tide, and the rest as they say, was history.

Is it possible MS could one day be left out in the cold where the PC market is concerned? It seems impossible for the moment, but then so did mass cloning of the PC. MS might well fight harder, since IBM had bigger fish to fry and I'm not sure what other investments MS has, but I'm sure that empire couldn't take the same customer loyalty swing that IBM had to absorb.

I don't think they can afford to keep hurting the very people that are keeping them alive and need first and foremost to come clean about their policies. Right now, I would call some of their tricks, plain and simple lies. People are not fools and even the most modest users are becoming aware of the truth. Perhaps then, they can build a new relationship with the millions that are at present bewildered and not a little afraid about how badly their businesses are already being harmed.

I see from the BBC website that, after destroying desktop Windows by pushing a smartphone interface onto the desktop, Microsoft are now getting out of the phone business:

Microsoft hangs up on smartphone workers - BBC News

I believe the free upgrade to W10 runs out at the end of July. ISTR reading somewhere that MS said W10 would be their last OS.

Two registry edits are all that is needed to prevent the W10 unwanted update.
Steve Gibson - GRC.com

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

Never10 manipulates the values and security permission settings of the following two registry keys:

• HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx
  Under this key, the 32-bit DWORD value “DisableGwx” is set to 1 or completely deleted.
  These will be referred to as the “Gwx” key and the “DisableGwx” value. This key and value control the display of the “Get Windows 10” offer icon in the system tray. When DisableGwx is set to 1, the upgrade offer icon is suppressed.

• HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Windo wsUpdate
  Under this key, the 32-bit DWORD value “DisableOSUpgrade” is set to 1 or completely deleted.
  These will be referred to as the “WindowsUpdate” key and the “DisableOSUpgrade” value. This key and value control the downloading and installation of any upgrades to Windows. When DisableOSUpgrade is set to 1, any previously downloaded Windows 10 files are deleted and Windows will never attempt to upgrade the current operating system.

If it's that simple, I have a feeling that while the computer is connected to the World, these items will mysteriously turn on again. Also, a harder to find routine is probably already waiting in the wings.

Paranoid, moi?

Interesting observation here -

Evil Microsoft Windows 10 upgrade trick: The X button in popup alert | BGR

FOR

I installed windows 10 to give it a try after all they do say if you don't like it you can switch back to windows 7 (etc). I tried it didn't like it and clicked on the roll back button.
during the roll back it somehow corrupted several files and broke the main frame.
a week later and somewhat out of pocket after a vist to the repair shop I'm back on windows 7.
the repair guy installed something on my laptop to stop windows 10 from installing its self.

What Steve says:

https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm

How on Earth....!?
 

Two days ago my teenage son announced that he had "accidentally" upgraded to W10 on his computer.

Now he did not even have Administrator privileges on his account! So how can that be?

My administrator account was gone. My antivirus software of preference was gone. The Microsoft Family Safety internet monitoring of his account was gone. Had he not been (slightly grudgingly) prepared to let me onto his account to re-establish my own account it would have been a total lockout.

I am at a loss to know how MS can let their upgrades play fast and loose with the system security in this way.

They do it because they assume people will keep using Windows no matter what they do.

I was presented with the update box a couple of days ago. I looked and looked at it to try and figure out how not to proceed with the update. I poked around the update box gently but could not figure out how to close the box manually without unwittingly initiating the update.


In the end I did the obvious, 'Started Task Manager', looked under 'applications' and could see the 'Update box' running as a piece of software so I simply selected it and performed an 'End Task'.


Naturally it got rid of the update box and off I happily went as normal.


Obviously not a permanent solution but a quick and easy get out of jail free card if you need it.

Well, I ran it on my W7 i7 Vaio and it took the blink of an eye.

I'd already had one 'Threat' on my brand spanking new install. The S G download told me the current state of affairs. i.e., ready for upgrade.

MS hands out assurances like political promises - words to the effect this machine is suitable for W10 upgrade. Perhaps I could ask them to have the W10 drivers written, because as I've hollered, Sony are not going to.

Normally Microsoft seem so fastidious about our safety with tedious, near weekly security updates which we endlessly have to install. And yet when it comes to their own upgrades it seems they can break all the rules.

If they wish to run an empire then they need to understand they have to operate by the same rules they apply to their subjects. That's fundamental. If they believe that as rulers they live by different laws then that is the conceit of their undoing (as many Emperors have learned to their cost).

More practically speaking, if they believe their upgrade process is above all reproach and can bypass security protections as convenient, then the first hacker to get on the inside will be their total undoing.

PC World has quite a bit to say about it. To quote someone: They say it as it is!

Oh, BTW, is anyone using GWX Control Panel on a daily basis for other things? I was unaware of it.

And another BTW. After the Steve Gibson procedure, I had a MS upgrade last night. 1 of 1. To quote myself:
I also said, Paranoid, moi?

Windows 10 is actually quite a good operating system!
 

Windows 10 is actually quite a good operating system. It is different to previous versions of Windows and people are naturally resistant to and suspicious of change.

It is true that some older or very new computers may not have the necessary driver support for some features on their machines. That has also been true of every version of Windows and other operating systems.

With this version of Windows, Microsoft has written an operating system that is capable of working across a wide variety of platforms, desktops, laptops, tablets, and mobile phones. Data can be exchanged between these devices and viewed and edited in its' native format. All very useful and convenient, particularly for commercial users that form the most profitable part of Microsoft's market.

Like any new software, there are bugs but they will be fixed eventually. There may be concerns about the amount of data that is collected by Microsoft, but their main concern is using this data to target adverts and otherwise obtain a commercial advantage over competitors. It really isn't a giant data gathering exercise for the NSA or other organisations. They have sufficient resources already to scoop up everything they need.

The forced upgrades may appear underhand, but by ensuring the maximum number of systems are using the same operating system, it is far easier to provide support, security upgrades and reduce costs. Microsoft is a business trying to maximise profits for their shareholders when all is said and done.

No point moaning about it. Windows 10 is going to be the de facto operating system in the commercial world for the foreseeable future. As with all progress there are winners and losers when it comes to whether this update actually improves the performance of your computer system. The fact is, the vast majority of users are happy with Windows 10 once they get used to a slightly different way of working on the computer.

Pushing a phone/tablet operating system onto the desktop is not a good plan when no-one wants to buy phones running that operating system, and very few want to buy tablets running it.

I had to use Windows 10 briefly last week. Best thing I can say is that it's not as bad as Windows 8.

Never 10.exe For Win 7 or 8.1 users
 

If You are using Win 7 or 8.1 yoy can install ''Never10.exe''
You can access the download from:-
Download Never 10 - MajorGeeks.
This will stop any attempt to install win 10, or gives you the option to change your mind if you want to.

***
:D

If you are using Windows 8.1, I would strongly recommend updating to Windows 10. It is a considerable improvement and you can hide away the mobile features semi permanently if you want.

Windows 7 users have a much trickier decision to make. Unless you need Windows 10 for compatibility with other devices, most home users will be happier sticking with the older version with its media player and other handy applications.

Windows 10 isn't that bad, but it is different and takes some getting used to. The absence of a built in media player is the biggest shortcoming for most users.

W10 is Microsoft playing catch-up, or trying to, with Apple and Google (Android). The fact that they are forcing people to upgrade is a sign of their desperation to keep their slice of the market. Unfortunately for them, people are increasingly accessing the Internet via other devices and not PCs. Pretty soon all that they'll have left is business, and a lot of those have only just finished sorting out W7. The other problem is that W7 works too well for anyone to want to change to the unknown that is W10. Why else force them to?

Following GOULI's persuasive post, I'll mention again my occasional missing new toys as I trolley across the room on my office chair to the W7 laptop. But that's not business use, it's playing, and as mentioned this evening, not how MS makes its serious money. Geekiness is for young minds, and mine is failing all too quickly, but I have to say I was intrigued by W10's efforts to catch up OS 10 and Linux with the ability to open multiple desktops and switch quickly between them. I mention the quickly bit, because it seems it's very necessary to learn the keystrokes for power usage.

I'm not sure yet why I need it, but I like it and can impress my friends with the fact I know it's there. Well, the cat . . . I haven't got any friends. :uhoh:

At least now I know why there's a quarter screen when one slaps the second (reduced) File Explorer to one side. But it would have been so nice to be told it was a new desktop. Or is it? I'm not totally sure.

My girlfriend went to visit her mother this weekend. Just got a text to say she was going to email me, but her mother's computer suddenly decided to install Windows 10...

In a sane world, someone would be going to jail over this.