Time for a new wireless router
 

The time has come to retire the old D-Link 802.11g router. I want to upgrade to a 802.11n router and would like your opinions on which routers to consider. There will be 2 computers on the network, neither of which are used for heavy duty downloading/streaming.

A speedtest on the current router gives me about 2Mbps download on the wireless and 92Mbps when plugged in to one of the LAN ports, hence the desire to upgrade.

Any advice on which manufacturers to consider or avoid? My budget is not unlimited but neither do I want to buy cheap and then regret it...

At the moment I am swaying towards the D-Link DIR-652 or perhaps the Belkin Surf+ if the girlfriend has her say on the budget. :(

Does anyone currently use either of these routers, and if so what are your impressions of them? Any other routers you would personally recommend?

It might be a good idea to investigate why your wifi throughput is so poor. If there is interference or poor signal quality with 11g, there's quite possibly going to be problems with 11n also.

I have a Linksys 54g WAP/router and I get a consistent real-world 20-25 Mbps out of a theoretical 54Mbps with two PCs, which is quite acceptable for a domestic situation (I've seen 35mpbs, but only when I've stopped all but one device). The signal is passing through a couple of walls or floors, but still strong. I've got a small extension aerial for each desktop, so that the aerial isn't shielded by the PC case.

I can't do that for the laptop card, so it's no surprise that it has poorer reception. I haven't tested the x-box throughput, but the kids aren't complaining, so I guess it must be OK!

SD

Exactly, SD, there may be an issue with the location of the router which affects the signal. Of course, the router may be on the way out or have a fault somewhere which means the signal is low.

So, a few questions.

1) How old is the router
2) Have you done a software upgrade on it recently (some can do this through the router menu)
3) Have you checked to make sure it is set to 802.11G and not "B" (some will default to "B" when yo do a master reset)
4) Location location location. Where is the router? What kind of building is your house? There can be so many factors like a run of pipework and/or electrical cables nearby (especially if your router is in a cupboard under the stairs, for example) that block the signal.
5) Have you borrowed a router from a friend to check to see if the same thing happens with another one? You could easily find out that the "location" is the problem then and save yourself a few bucks instead of splashing out on a Belkin and finding out you have the same problem.
6) When was the last time the router was switched off. Experience has told me that SOME routers will do strange things like drop the wireless completely if they are not switched off once in a while.
7) Is this a new problem or has it happened since day one. This could point to a issue with the router settings.

There's a few things for starters, hopefully we can resolve this and maybe save you some money.

Can't say anything about the D-Link because have not experienced it......

But....

Trust me when I say ......

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Don't expect tea and sympathy from me when you come back here with your Belkin problems. Put it this way, I know highly qualified senior IT engineers who have been given a free Belkin for home use and have ended up throwing it in the bin in frustration !

Netgear have been making DSL routers for ages. They're always a safe bet. Zyxel and Draytek may be worth a look too.


By the way, have you tried changing the wireless channel ? There could be too many people in your vicinity using the same channel.

Ok, a few answers as regards location etc.

Firstly yes, the location at the moment is not ideal. However, even when I am sitting right next to the router and getting maximum signal strength the problem is still apparent. I have changed the channel from 6 to 10 and saw a 4 fold increase in speed during testing, up from 2 Mbps to 8, so I guess we are getting interference from surrounding networks.

However with a 92Mbps internet connection this is still way slower than I should be able to achieve.

The router is a DI-524 so should be capable of much better. It is about 4 and a half years old although it has been sat unused for the last 3 years or so. We changed internet service providers and used the supplied modem/router with no problems. I do not remember having any problems the last time we used this router although that was on a slower internet connection and with my last lap top, which was virtually steam powered.

No software updates that I am aware of.

It is set to 11g for sure.

As for settings, well we had a few problems getting my girlfriends lap top to connect. In the end we got it connected by playing around with the security and encryption settings. The only combo that seemed to work was WPA-PSK (TKIP).

Also what I haven't mentioned so far is that I am experiencing problems with dropped connections on a fairly regular basis. With the combination of the low throughput and the connection dropping I am getting fairly frustrated with it.

The DI-524 is 80211.g, so theoretically 54Mb.

However you have to remember these cheap routers are largely performing software based routing, therefore are not likely to be very efficient as bandwidth speeds increase. So I would say trying a new router isn't such a bad idea, but make sure it's one with a reasonable processor.

Have you tried a tool such as iperf to run wireless tests locally between two machines ? Internet based speed tests are very unpredictable due to all sorts of reasons (throttling, traffic shaping, congestion ... all of which are something that you will see a lot of on a "pile-em-high, sell-em-cheap" home grade connection) .... although Bredbandskollen (www bredbandskollen se) isn't too bad, even from way outside Sweden I can normally manage good throughput.

Have you taken your laptop elsewhere (internet café etc.) and ruled out possible hardware issue in your laptop (unlikely I know, but just to be sure !).

Truth is that most home wireless kit isn't really up to high bandwidth and you'll always get better results from a physical cable. However, that said, you shouuld be able to get better than 2 or 8Mb out of it.

This may also be of interest.

Why is wireless LAN throughput very low or erratic? D-Link Forum FAQ | DSLReports.com, ISP Information

Dlink DSL 2740R
 

I changed my wireless router to this dlink and it improved wireless reception somewhat, so it's OK and a clear improvement on that but I have 'old' 'g' devices which no doubt limits things. Have you used something like 'netstumbler' to suss out interfering local networks ? Could look at the technical forums on 'thinkbroadband' for more general advice.

If you want very few issues with a router that does 802.11n, that has a gig port, that performs adequate QoS and bandwidth management, that has an object-based firewall, and that will work with BT infinity as well as ADSL, then pony up the extra for a Draytek Vigor 2820n.

Whatever you do, don't buy Belkin. Dlink are almost as bad.

Netgear and Linksys are not so bad, but both suffer from short lifespans and spurious errors on differing firmware.

I'm in the middle of migrating my clientbase to the Draytek as it's rock-solid compared to the others (and until you have a router which causes you no bother you'll not appreciate what the extra cost buys you).

Ok, I have played around a bit and hit the reset button on the router. Having reconfigured it I am now getting about 20Mbps when sitting on top of it and about 12Mbps where I was getting 2Mbps before (i.e, the kitchen table..)

Unfortunately having checked my girlfriends laptop she only has a 11g adaptor. If I go ahead and by an 11n router I'm going to end up running a mixed network, which as I understand it will slow the network down.

I'm no expert on wireless networks so any advice would be appreciated.

@ mixture

I have used my laptop in several locations in the past and not had this problem. My girlfriends laptop is also very slow so I'm fairly convinced it's a router problem.

This seems an appropriate place to pitch in . . .

I'm looking to replace the BT Homehub with something a bit more sophisticated. I've recently taken up Xbox live gaming, and I need to guarantee, when I'm playing, that other wireless and fixed network activity doesn't disrupt my gaming . . .

I've heard reasonable reports about the D-Link DIR-655, but I need an ADSL router as well, so I looked at the 2740.

Any other recommendations for ADSL routers with Ethernet ports, wireless, which do QoS ?

Having a mixed g/n network shouldn't slow it down anywhere near as much as a mixed b/g network. In fact I doubt you'll notice the difference from a greenfield n network.

(Thankfully, I am sat today in amongst 20-odd wireless experts with PhDs in the stuff - you picked the right day to ask the question).

Thanks M-B, very happy to see that my timing is good for a change!


This is what I'm getting from the kitchen table:-

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1169006258.png

This is sitting right next to the router:-

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168955141.png

This from the LAN port on the router:-

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1168523682.png

Now all I have to do is distract the girlfriend for long enough so I can get to the shops on my own and buy a new router....

Are you sat in a datacentre?!?

/jealous of your internet connection. Mine's 2.8mbit/s :(

We like it fast over here! Mind you it's not the cheapest probably. 249 swedish kronor a month for the first 12 months and 320 kronor a month after that. Exchange rate is about 10 kr to a pound so I'll let you work it out and compare it to UK prices.

I agree with Mike Bracknell - from personal experience, a Vigor 2820 is the way to go for sure if you are serious about your wireless, reliability, and cool features like a USB port for printers / USB sticks, gigabit port and whatnot.

For plus points, get a dumb gigabit switch for your wired PCs. They are about £20 from Amazon these days.

Don't think the Draytek is going to happen guys, not at the price over here anyway. Don't think I can justify spending the thick end of 350 quid on a router. :{

BTW, Mike, did BT roll out what-they-promised-to-rollout in your patch round about now? Just wondering...

Mike,

Here's something to make you jealous.... :cool:

And no, I don't work at Google. :p

My apologies if I am telling anyone what they already know. Upgrading equipment without knowing exactly why is a waste. If your current router is secure ( separate issue) why upgrade if you can get better speed for free?

As saab and hellsbrink mention, location is everything with wifi. It's all about the signal strength and quality. That is, how often the link is broken and has to be re-established. All those precious milliseconds of our lives down the drain as we wait for renegotiations . . .

In addition to some other good suggestions you may wish to download a program for your machine that gives audio feedback of signal strength as well as information about neighbouring interference. This will help you avoid dead spots. (Kismac for the Mac, Netstumbler for a PC box or wiki-it-out-yerself for linux).

Part of "location" is the antenna/e that you are using. Propagation patterns are obviously dependent on your antenna and it's orientation. I like to survey with a small 12-15cm and large 25-35cm antenna. Try vertical and horizontal orientations. If you are using your laptop's internal antennae find out where they are located. Then you can walk around like an asylum patient holding you laptop in different orientations.

After you get a feel for the propagation in you environment you can try adding some reflectors to your access point. There are some very ugly looking ones here:

Parabolic Templat

But they probably do the job. I found that a carefully built 40x30cm sized parabolic reflector and a "9 dB" 30 cm whip antenna eliminated hot and dead spots at the very edge of rated coverage. The area of the box parabola aperture is supposed to be equivalent to the area of a parabolic dish antenna. So a 30x40 recangular aperture is theoretically the same as a 38cm diameter dish antenna. Not bad for a "Tesco" freebee.

For longer range:

Long Range Wi-fi Dish Antenna by dxzone.com

For the interested reader:

VHF UHF Ant

Have fun and be nice your dog.

Hooroo!

Ouch! They're about 160 quid here.

Dr Phillip Lee MP – Caring for Bracknell Constituency Blog Archive Dr Phillip Lee pleased that super-fast broadband is coming to Bracknell Constituency

Have a read.....and you can see why my comment is unanswered.

Yes but that IS from your datacentre. :8

13 hops for me :(

7 on my ADSL broadband.... :ok:

10 for me on this BT SDSL i'm now on.

Serves you right .... BT ADSL.... pah... :yuk:

SDSL :)

Slightly better, but still :yuk:

0.5 mS ?
 

You are pulling my leg, I get 31mS to google. How's the weather in Palo Alto ? On another point, think the OP's observation on price was valid, I wish I could justify a Draytek too. Glad to hear that g/n isn't an issue. Still think a ferret around with netstumbler and some judicious choice of channel may be worth a try. The move to a more modern 'n' router certainly improved reliability of wireless connection but still not perfect (in old cottage). Perhaps power line stuff ?

Mr Optimistic,

No leg pulling here.

Although strictly speaking it's data from a work environment, not my livingroom at home where I too get 30ms to the big G....but still.... :cool:


A Google search suggests it's 9oC, mostly cloudy, wind SE @ 13mph.
:cool:

Irrespective of where I may or may not usually lurk, all of the data I posted today is from a London perspective...

Mr O

I downloaded Netstumbler, unfortunately my wireless card isn't supported.... :(

Are you so sure you have a problem with the router ? You could check the wireless adapter settings on the gfriends laptop I suppose. I had a quick look for netstumbler equivalents but didn't like the look of them, too much wardriving stuff. Perhaps install netstumbler on the gfriends machine ? If it's her machine which is sluggish it's the least she should do.

So where exactly is www.google.com?

Hang on a minute. From memory the distance to Los Angeles is about 5400 nm, so say 5000 nm to SF. Call a nautical mile 1800m (I am a physicist and used to work for Ferranti so precision isn't in my nature), that makes say 9x10^6m from uptown Bedford to google. If the speed of light (even for Draytek owners) is 3x 10^8 m/s, doesn't that make 30mS even for a TEM wave ?

Avionker

Try Vistumbler ( Vistumbler.net - Home ) instead. Netstumbler doesn't support the wifi on this machine either, it's an Atheros wifi adapter, but Vistumbler had no problems whatsoever.

Thanks hellsbrink, I'll give that a go. Got an Atheros on here as well. :ok:

Interesting. Even virtually sitting on top of the router no better than 88% signal strength....

Ok, after a bit of twisting and turning and upping and downing of the laptop I got a 100% signal from my router. Now, even with 100% signal strength and ensuring I was the only user on the network the throughput was.-

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1171030974.png

Considering that I have a 97Mb/s internet connection feeding this router, and that its theoretically capable of providing a 54Mb/s wireless connection I can't help feeling that something is not performing as it should.

I have only one other router within range on the same channel as mine, and that signal is very weak. It's also an 802.11n device, although whether or not that would reduce the likelihood of it causing me problems or not, I don't know. Perhaps someone could clarify that for me?

Sitting in my usual spot at the kitchen table I am getting around about 70% signal strength as an average. Obviously some playing around with the router position could improve this however that's hardly likely to improve my throughput significantly. The best result I have seen on the wireless connection is about 20Mb/s, and obviously this will vary depending on the loading on my network and on my ISP, but it is still short of what I feel I should be achieving.

Does anyone have any other ideas or am I correct in thinking that a new router is the next logical step?

Is your WAP set to both b and g? If so, set it to g only.

You will find that 50-60% of theoretical max throughput is considered good, due to contention (it's a shared access medium), protocol and security overhead.

As a test, try removing security (WPA) and seeing the effect. If your D-Link (and / or your WNIC) is not very fast at encryption, you will notice a difference. I'm not suggesting that you leave encryption off permanently, BTW!

SD

SD

The router is set to g only. I tried removing security as suggested but I saw only a minimal difference.

With encryption on:-

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1171656217.png

With encryption off:-

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1171657525.png

I appreciate that I am not going to see 54Mbps but I would hope for at least 30 to 35 Mbps at times that I am the only user on the network. My laptop is I think, relatively high performance, it's certainly not an old clunker. The wireless adaptor is an Atheros AR9285 which should support up to 150Mbps (on an 11n device at any rate) , its got a 2Ghz AMD Athlon dual core processor, 4MB of RAM and it's running Windows 7 Home Premium.

Does my router have a problem? Am I missing something in the set up? Are my expectations too high as regards the performance of the router?

I really think the only way to be sure is to get connected to an 802.11n router and see what happens, this basically means going ahead and buying one anyway. Another option would be attempting to get hold of another 11g router and setting it up on my internet connection, unfortunately I can't think of anyone I know who has one I could borrow....

Avionker,

A quote from wikipedia re 802.11g.....

The marketing people take care not to discuss sustained transfer rates. That's why physical cable is and always will be better than wireless. :cool:

reviews on current routers
 

This shows what is considered good and what you can expect

Networking reviews | Expert Reviews

Time to resurrect a long dormant thread.

Despite my best efforts 11 months ago, a new router was not forthcoming. SWMBO decided that it was not really required and after all the playing around with Vistumbler, as described earlier in the thread, the connection was far more reliable although still on the slow side.

However, last night the old router finally gave up the ghost. As SWMBO has upgraded laptops recently an 802.11n router was the obvious replacement. So, to cut a long story short I am now connected via a D-Link DIR-635 which I picked up for 399 Swedish Kronor, approximately 37 Sterling.

After I've had a chance to run Vistumbler I'll post some connection speeds. Will be interesting to see if there is any appreciable improvement in speed.

Well with 100% signal strength, and as the only user on the network we get

http://speedtest.net/result/1696210799.png

In the sitting room, with an average 75% signal strength that drops to

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1696215122.png

Broadband envy
In the Czech Republic over Christmas as usual, I got chatting with a friend who lives in the city of Ostrava and who recently switched to a fibre connection to his apartment. We tested 98.8 Mb/s download and 24.5 Mb/s upload for the princely equivalent sum of thirteen quid a month! Am I envious or am I envious? :)

My reliable 6.8-7.2 Mb/s download during the day and at night (3.5 Mb/s at peak evening times) is just about enough for the work that I do from home, but a peak of 448 Kb/s upload (and typically 335 Kb/s dropping to 100 Kb/s at peak times) is a right royal PITA.

WiFi Channels
Regarding WiFi channels; for users of Android smartphones I recommend the App called "Wifi analyzer". It is excellent for showing all detected networks, their strength, and their competition with each other in a very clear manner that does not require a degree in rocket science. It also shows the recommended channel you should move your network to for best performance.

I've used it to help many friends out but most recently used it to help myself; on the aforementioned holiday I was free-loading on the back of a friend's network down the street but it kept dropping out. After following the WiFi Analyzer advice to switch from channel 7 to channel 11 not only did performance jump dramatically but it didn't drop out once in the remaining week and a half. The owner of the network experienced no change.

Avoniker,

Your speeds are definitely better on the new router, and pretty good for a wireless link. My apartment building, in the internet ghetto called China, was wired with cheap ethernet cables and provides marginal performance. Running wi-fi through two walls provides this result from speedtest.net:

(on stock antenna) down 3.94 Mbps Up 6.11 Mbps ping 70 ms

With a 20 element wi fi yagi on the router, beaming through the walls, I get a full 100% signal and these speeds:

(on stock antenna) down 4.97 Mbps Up 6.97 Mbps ping 36 ms

So with a better RF signal, I seem to have hit the limit of my local ethernet and router combo. You are likely to see a similar effect on your wireless connection, but with higher numbers than here! Fiber to the home and quality ethernet cable direct to your computer would provide the fastest possible speed.