Time for a new wireless router
Thread Starter
Time for a new wireless router
The time has come to retire the old D-Link 802.11g router. I want to upgrade to a 802.11n router and would like your opinions on which routers to consider. There will be 2 computers on the network, neither of which are used for heavy duty downloading/streaming.
A speedtest on the current router gives me about 2Mbps download on the wireless and 92Mbps when plugged in to one of the LAN ports, hence the desire to upgrade.
Any advice on which manufacturers to consider or avoid? My budget is not unlimited but neither do I want to buy cheap and then regret it...
At the moment I am swaying towards the D-Link DIR-652 or perhaps the Belkin Surf+ if the girlfriend has her say on the budget.
Does anyone currently use either of these routers, and if so what are your impressions of them? Any other routers you would personally recommend?
A speedtest on the current router gives me about 2Mbps download on the wireless and 92Mbps when plugged in to one of the LAN ports, hence the desire to upgrade.
Any advice on which manufacturers to consider or avoid? My budget is not unlimited but neither do I want to buy cheap and then regret it...
At the moment I am swaying towards the D-Link DIR-652 or perhaps the Belkin Surf+ if the girlfriend has her say on the budget.
Does anyone currently use either of these routers, and if so what are your impressions of them? Any other routers you would personally recommend?
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
It might be a good idea to investigate why your wifi throughput is so poor. If there is interference or poor signal quality with 11g, there's quite possibly going to be problems with 11n also.
I have a Linksys 54g WAP/router and I get a consistent real-world 20-25 Mbps out of a theoretical 54Mbps with two PCs, which is quite acceptable for a domestic situation (I've seen 35mpbs, but only when I've stopped all but one device). The signal is passing through a couple of walls or floors, but still strong. I've got a small extension aerial for each desktop, so that the aerial isn't shielded by the PC case.
I can't do that for the laptop card, so it's no surprise that it has poorer reception. I haven't tested the x-box throughput, but the kids aren't complaining, so I guess it must be OK!
SD
I have a Linksys 54g WAP/router and I get a consistent real-world 20-25 Mbps out of a theoretical 54Mbps with two PCs, which is quite acceptable for a domestic situation (I've seen 35mpbs, but only when I've stopped all but one device). The signal is passing through a couple of walls or floors, but still strong. I've got a small extension aerial for each desktop, so that the aerial isn't shielded by the PC case.
I can't do that for the laptop card, so it's no surprise that it has poorer reception. I haven't tested the x-box throughput, but the kids aren't complaining, so I guess it must be OK!
SD
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Exactly, SD, there may be an issue with the location of the router which affects the signal. Of course, the router may be on the way out or have a fault somewhere which means the signal is low.
So, a few questions.
1) How old is the router
2) Have you done a software upgrade on it recently (some can do this through the router menu)
3) Have you checked to make sure it is set to 802.11G and not "B" (some will default to "B" when yo do a master reset)
4) Location location location. Where is the router? What kind of building is your house? There can be so many factors like a run of pipework and/or electrical cables nearby (especially if your router is in a cupboard under the stairs, for example) that block the signal.
5) Have you borrowed a router from a friend to check to see if the same thing happens with another one? You could easily find out that the "location" is the problem then and save yourself a few bucks instead of splashing out on a Belkin and finding out you have the same problem.
6) When was the last time the router was switched off. Experience has told me that SOME routers will do strange things like drop the wireless completely if they are not switched off once in a while.
7) Is this a new problem or has it happened since day one. This could point to a issue with the router settings.
There's a few things for starters, hopefully we can resolve this and maybe save you some money.
So, a few questions.
1) How old is the router
2) Have you done a software upgrade on it recently (some can do this through the router menu)
3) Have you checked to make sure it is set to 802.11G and not "B" (some will default to "B" when yo do a master reset)
4) Location location location. Where is the router? What kind of building is your house? There can be so many factors like a run of pipework and/or electrical cables nearby (especially if your router is in a cupboard under the stairs, for example) that block the signal.
5) Have you borrowed a router from a friend to check to see if the same thing happens with another one? You could easily find out that the "location" is the problem then and save yourself a few bucks instead of splashing out on a Belkin and finding out you have the same problem.
6) When was the last time the router was switched off. Experience has told me that SOME routers will do strange things like drop the wireless completely if they are not switched off once in a while.
7) Is this a new problem or has it happened since day one. This could point to a issue with the router settings.
There's a few things for starters, hopefully we can resolve this and maybe save you some money.
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Can't say anything about the D-Link because have not experienced it......
But....
Trust me when I say ......
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Don't expect tea and sympathy from me when you come back here with your Belkin problems. Put it this way, I know highly qualified senior IT engineers who have been given a free Belkin for home use and have ended up throwing it in the bin in frustration !
Netgear have been making DSL routers for ages. They're always a safe bet. Zyxel and Draytek may be worth a look too.
By the way, have you tried changing the wireless channel ? There could be too many people in your vicinity using the same channel.
But....
Belkin
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Don't expect tea and sympathy from me when you come back here with your Belkin problems. Put it this way, I know highly qualified senior IT engineers who have been given a free Belkin for home use and have ended up throwing it in the bin in frustration !
Netgear have been making DSL routers for ages. They're always a safe bet. Zyxel and Draytek may be worth a look too.
By the way, have you tried changing the wireless channel ? There could be too many people in your vicinity using the same channel.
Thread Starter
Ok, a few answers as regards location etc.
Firstly yes, the location at the moment is not ideal. However, even when I am sitting right next to the router and getting maximum signal strength the problem is still apparent. I have changed the channel from 6 to 10 and saw a 4 fold increase in speed during testing, up from 2 Mbps to 8, so I guess we are getting interference from surrounding networks.
However with a 92Mbps internet connection this is still way slower than I should be able to achieve.
The router is a DI-524 so should be capable of much better. It is about 4 and a half years old although it has been sat unused for the last 3 years or so. We changed internet service providers and used the supplied modem/router with no problems. I do not remember having any problems the last time we used this router although that was on a slower internet connection and with my last lap top, which was virtually steam powered.
No software updates that I am aware of.
It is set to 11g for sure.
As for settings, well we had a few problems getting my girlfriends lap top to connect. In the end we got it connected by playing around with the security and encryption settings. The only combo that seemed to work was WPA-PSK (TKIP).
Also what I haven't mentioned so far is that I am experiencing problems with dropped connections on a fairly regular basis. With the combination of the low throughput and the connection dropping I am getting fairly frustrated with it.
Firstly yes, the location at the moment is not ideal. However, even when I am sitting right next to the router and getting maximum signal strength the problem is still apparent. I have changed the channel from 6 to 10 and saw a 4 fold increase in speed during testing, up from 2 Mbps to 8, so I guess we are getting interference from surrounding networks.
However with a 92Mbps internet connection this is still way slower than I should be able to achieve.
The router is a DI-524 so should be capable of much better. It is about 4 and a half years old although it has been sat unused for the last 3 years or so. We changed internet service providers and used the supplied modem/router with no problems. I do not remember having any problems the last time we used this router although that was on a slower internet connection and with my last lap top, which was virtually steam powered.
No software updates that I am aware of.
It is set to 11g for sure.
As for settings, well we had a few problems getting my girlfriends lap top to connect. In the end we got it connected by playing around with the security and encryption settings. The only combo that seemed to work was WPA-PSK (TKIP).
Also what I haven't mentioned so far is that I am experiencing problems with dropped connections on a fairly regular basis. With the combination of the low throughput and the connection dropping I am getting fairly frustrated with it.
Last edited by Avionker; 22nd Feb 2011 at 08:23.
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However with a 92Mbps internet connection this is still way slower than I should be able to achieve.
The router is a DI-524 so should be capable of much better
The router is a DI-524 so should be capable of much better
The DI-524 is 80211.g, so theoretically 54Mb.
However you have to remember these cheap routers are largely performing software based routing, therefore are not likely to be very efficient as bandwidth speeds increase. So I would say trying a new router isn't such a bad idea, but make sure it's one with a reasonable processor.
Have you tried a tool such as iperf to run wireless tests locally between two machines ? Internet based speed tests are very unpredictable due to all sorts of reasons (throttling, traffic shaping, congestion ... all of which are something that you will see a lot of on a "pile-em-high, sell-em-cheap" home grade connection) .... although Bredbandskollen (www bredbandskollen se) isn't too bad, even from way outside Sweden I can normally manage good throughput.
Have you taken your laptop elsewhere (internet café etc.) and ruled out possible hardware issue in your laptop (unlikely I know, but just to be sure !).
Truth is that most home wireless kit isn't really up to high bandwidth and you'll always get better results from a physical cable. However, that said, you shouuld be able to get better than 2 or 8Mb out of it.
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This may also be of interest.
Why is wireless LAN throughput very low or erratic? D-Link Forum FAQ | DSLReports.com, ISP Information
Why is wireless LAN throughput very low or erratic? D-Link Forum FAQ | DSLReports.com, ISP Information
Dlink DSL 2740R
I changed my wireless router to this dlink and it improved wireless reception somewhat, so it's OK and a clear improvement on that but I have 'old' 'g' devices which no doubt limits things. Have you used something like 'netstumbler' to suss out interfering local networks ? Could look at the technical forums on 'thinkbroadband' for more general advice.
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If you want very few issues with a router that does 802.11n, that has a gig port, that performs adequate QoS and bandwidth management, that has an object-based firewall, and that will work with BT infinity as well as ADSL, then pony up the extra for a Draytek Vigor 2820n.
Whatever you do, don't buy Belkin. Dlink are almost as bad.
Netgear and Linksys are not so bad, but both suffer from short lifespans and spurious errors on differing firmware.
I'm in the middle of migrating my clientbase to the Draytek as it's rock-solid compared to the others (and until you have a router which causes you no bother you'll not appreciate what the extra cost buys you).
Whatever you do, don't buy Belkin. Dlink are almost as bad.
Netgear and Linksys are not so bad, but both suffer from short lifespans and spurious errors on differing firmware.
I'm in the middle of migrating my clientbase to the Draytek as it's rock-solid compared to the others (and until you have a router which causes you no bother you'll not appreciate what the extra cost buys you).
Thread Starter
Ok, I have played around a bit and hit the reset button on the router. Having reconfigured it I am now getting about 20Mbps when sitting on top of it and about 12Mbps where I was getting 2Mbps before (i.e, the kitchen table..)
Unfortunately having checked my girlfriends laptop she only has a 11g adaptor. If I go ahead and by an 11n router I'm going to end up running a mixed network, which as I understand it will slow the network down.
I'm no expert on wireless networks so any advice would be appreciated.
@ mixture
I have used my laptop in several locations in the past and not had this problem. My girlfriends laptop is also very slow so I'm fairly convinced it's a router problem.
Unfortunately having checked my girlfriends laptop she only has a 11g adaptor. If I go ahead and by an 11n router I'm going to end up running a mixed network, which as I understand it will slow the network down.
I'm no expert on wireless networks so any advice would be appreciated.
@ mixture
I have used my laptop in several locations in the past and not had this problem. My girlfriends laptop is also very slow so I'm fairly convinced it's a router problem.
This seems an appropriate place to pitch in . . .
I'm looking to replace the BT Homehub with something a bit more sophisticated. I've recently taken up Xbox live gaming, and I need to guarantee, when I'm playing, that other wireless and fixed network activity doesn't disrupt my gaming . . .
I've heard reasonable reports about the D-Link DIR-655, but I need an ADSL router as well, so I looked at the 2740.
Any other recommendations for ADSL routers with Ethernet ports, wireless, which do QoS ?
I'm looking to replace the BT Homehub with something a bit more sophisticated. I've recently taken up Xbox live gaming, and I need to guarantee, when I'm playing, that other wireless and fixed network activity doesn't disrupt my gaming . . .
I've heard reasonable reports about the D-Link DIR-655, but I need an ADSL router as well, so I looked at the 2740.
Any other recommendations for ADSL routers with Ethernet ports, wireless, which do QoS ?
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Ok, I have played around a bit and hit the reset button on the router. Having reconfigured it I am now getting about 20Mbps when sitting on top of it and about 12Mbps where I was getting 2Mbps before (i.e, the kitchen table..)
Unfortunately having checked my girlfriends laptop she only has a 11g adaptor. If I go ahead and by an 11n router I'm going to end up running a mixed network, which as I understand it will slow the network down.
I'm no expert on wireless networks so any advice would be appreciated.
Unfortunately having checked my girlfriends laptop she only has a 11g adaptor. If I go ahead and by an 11n router I'm going to end up running a mixed network, which as I understand it will slow the network down.
I'm no expert on wireless networks so any advice would be appreciated.
(Thankfully, I am sat today in amongst 20-odd wireless experts with PhDs in the stuff - you picked the right day to ask the question).
Thread Starter
Thanks M-B, very happy to see that my timing is good for a change!
This is what I'm getting from the kitchen table:-
This is sitting right next to the router:-
This from the LAN port on the router:-
Now all I have to do is distract the girlfriend for long enough so I can get to the shops on my own and buy a new router....
This is what I'm getting from the kitchen table:-
This is sitting right next to the router:-
This from the LAN port on the router:-
Now all I have to do is distract the girlfriend for long enough so I can get to the shops on my own and buy a new router....
Thread Starter
We like it fast over here! Mind you it's not the cheapest probably. 249 swedish kronor a month for the first 12 months and 320 kronor a month after that. Exchange rate is about 10 kr to a pound so I'll let you work it out and compare it to UK prices.
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I agree with Mike Bracknell - from personal experience, a Vigor 2820 is the way to go for sure if you are serious about your wireless, reliability, and cool features like a USB port for printers / USB sticks, gigabit port and whatnot.
For plus points, get a dumb gigabit switch for your wired PCs. They are about £20 from Amazon these days.
For plus points, get a dumb gigabit switch for your wired PCs. They are about £20 from Amazon these days.
Thread Starter
Don't think the Draytek is going to happen guys, not at the price over here anyway. Don't think I can justify spending the thick end of 350 quid on a router. 
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Mike,
Here's something to make you jealous.... 
And no, I don't work at Google. 
Are you sat in a datacentre?!?
/jealous of your internet connection.
/jealous of your internet connection.
Code:
traceroute to www.google.com (74.125.230.146), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 XXXXXXXXXXX (XXXXXXXXXX) 0.315 ms 0.308 ms 0.275 ms 2 209.85.255.78 (209.85.255.78) 0.455 ms 0.405 ms 0.391 ms 3 209.85.251.202 (209.85.251.202) 0.770 ms 0.796 ms 0.760 ms 4 74.125.230.146 (74.125.230.146) 0.554 ms 0.569 ms 0.536 ms
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My apologies if I am telling anyone what they already know. Upgrading equipment without knowing exactly why is a waste. If your current router is secure ( separate issue) why upgrade if you can get better speed for free?
As saab and hellsbrink mention, location is everything with wifi. It's all about the signal strength and quality. That is, how often the link is broken and has to be re-established. All those precious milliseconds of our lives down the drain as we wait for renegotiations . . .
In addition to some other good suggestions you may wish to download a program for your machine that gives audio feedback of signal strength as well as information about neighbouring interference. This will help you avoid dead spots. (Kismac for the Mac, Netstumbler for a PC box or wiki-it-out-yerself for linux).
Part of "location" is the antenna/e that you are using. Propagation patterns are obviously dependent on your antenna and it's orientation. I like to survey with a small 12-15cm and large 25-35cm antenna. Try vertical and horizontal orientations. If you are using your laptop's internal antennae find out where they are located. Then you can walk around like an asylum patient holding you laptop in different orientations.
After you get a feel for the propagation in you environment you can try adding some reflectors to your access point. There are some very ugly looking ones here:
Parabolic Templat
But they probably do the job. I found that a carefully built 40x30cm sized parabolic reflector and a "9 dB" 30 cm whip antenna eliminated hot and dead spots at the very edge of rated coverage. The area of the box parabola aperture is supposed to be equivalent to the area of a parabolic dish antenna. So a 30x40 recangular aperture is theoretically the same as a 38cm diameter dish antenna. Not bad for a "Tesco" freebee.
For longer range:
Long Range Wi-fi Dish Antenna by dxzone.com
For the interested reader:
VHF UHF Ant
Have fun and be nice your dog.
Hooroo!
As saab and hellsbrink mention, location is everything with wifi. It's all about the signal strength and quality. That is, how often the link is broken and has to be re-established. All those precious milliseconds of our lives down the drain as we wait for renegotiations . . .
In addition to some other good suggestions you may wish to download a program for your machine that gives audio feedback of signal strength as well as information about neighbouring interference. This will help you avoid dead spots. (Kismac for the Mac, Netstumbler for a PC box or wiki-it-out-yerself for linux).
Part of "location" is the antenna/e that you are using. Propagation patterns are obviously dependent on your antenna and it's orientation. I like to survey with a small 12-15cm and large 25-35cm antenna. Try vertical and horizontal orientations. If you are using your laptop's internal antennae find out where they are located. Then you can walk around like an asylum patient holding you laptop in different orientations.
After you get a feel for the propagation in you environment you can try adding some reflectors to your access point. There are some very ugly looking ones here:
Parabolic Templat
But they probably do the job. I found that a carefully built 40x30cm sized parabolic reflector and a "9 dB" 30 cm whip antenna eliminated hot and dead spots at the very edge of rated coverage. The area of the box parabola aperture is supposed to be equivalent to the area of a parabolic dish antenna. So a 30x40 recangular aperture is theoretically the same as a 38cm diameter dish antenna. Not bad for a "Tesco" freebee.
For longer range:
Long Range Wi-fi Dish Antenna by dxzone.com
For the interested reader:
VHF UHF Ant
Have fun and be nice your dog.
Hooroo!