Support for XP (Pro) and IE 8 users here on PPRuNe...
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Support for XP (Pro) and IE 8 users here on PPRuNe...
OK, so Microsoft will stop all support for XP (Pro) and similar next April 2014. I'm using XP and IE 8 (so far as I'm aware, that's the best (only version which works on my 10 year old DELL PC).
I've recently been experiencing various problems (eg. having to "refresh" several times before the page on say JB finally appears). Please, I'm not an imbecile, I know how to clear the cache etc.
Why is this happening? Does PPRuNe's software (vBulletin) no longer support older browsers? Is it because I've disabled some 3rd party cookies which install themselves as soon as one visits PPRuNe?
We should be told.
I've recently been experiencing various problems (eg. having to "refresh" several times before the page on say JB finally appears). Please, I'm not an imbecile, I know how to clear the cache etc.
Why is this happening? Does PPRuNe's software (vBulletin) no longer support older browsers? Is it because I've disabled some 3rd party cookies which install themselves as soon as one visits PPRuNe?
We should be told.
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I and various other resident gurus have already made our position clear.
Don't come running to Computers & Internet looking for tea & sympathy (or just tech support) if you are running XP beyond D-Day.
Its time to stop clinging on to XP and move on.
Seriously, we're not telling people that to piss them off, we're not telling people that because we're somehow beholden to Microsoft... we're telling people this because we know what home users are like with the state of their PCs, because we've seen this all before with Windows 2000, Windows NT, Windows 95, because we know its going to be a lot worse with XP, because we know people just won't begin to comprehend the security consequences of their stubborn actions, they don't comprehend that all software (including anti-virus etc.) is reliant on APIs provided by at the OS level by Microsoft and don't comprehend the security risks (and system stability risks) of the OS being left to grow cobwebs.
In the mean time, this...
Seems more likely to be the cause of your grief.
Don't mess with cookies or javascript unless you understand the consequences of your actions.
Don't come running to Computers & Internet looking for tea & sympathy (or just tech support) if you are running XP beyond D-Day.
Its time to stop clinging on to XP and move on.
Seriously, we're not telling people that to piss them off, we're not telling people that because we're somehow beholden to Microsoft... we're telling people this because we know what home users are like with the state of their PCs, because we've seen this all before with Windows 2000, Windows NT, Windows 95, because we know its going to be a lot worse with XP, because we know people just won't begin to comprehend the security consequences of their stubborn actions, they don't comprehend that all software (including anti-virus etc.) is reliant on APIs provided by at the OS level by Microsoft and don't comprehend the security risks (and system stability risks) of the OS being left to grow cobwebs.
In the mean time, this...
Is it because I've disabled some 3rd party cookies which install themselves as soon as one visits PPRuNe?
Don't mess with cookies or javascript unless you understand the consequences of your actions.
Last edited by mixture; 20th Dec 2013 at 20:56.
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I second that last statement. However if it helps and you have access to a reasonable internet connection and a dvd burner .
Try Ubuntu. It works well even on older pc's.
It is not known for getting viruses.
And you can try before you install it . It allows you to boot from the dvd and run a live session.
I had it years ago on an old vista laptop. From then until Vista SP2 and finally 7 came out did I go back to windows.
However I do do the odd bit of tea n sympathy.
So if you need a little advice feel free to pm me.
Il see if I can help.
IT is my business so hopefully I can help.
But it is vital you change from XP soon
You will be unprotected from anything.
Id bet on a surge in serious consequences from everyone from someone such ad your self right up to high ticket sites where the mind set is. If it aint broke.....
Windows XP while very good has been supassed.
But the final nugget of advice.
Never but ever try Windows 8.1 it is the mosy cynical half thought through over complex and many other things that I cant type here.
For the average user . Their world would end!.
Regards
Jon
Try Ubuntu. It works well even on older pc's.
It is not known for getting viruses.
And you can try before you install it . It allows you to boot from the dvd and run a live session.
I had it years ago on an old vista laptop. From then until Vista SP2 and finally 7 came out did I go back to windows.
However I do do the odd bit of tea n sympathy.
So if you need a little advice feel free to pm me.
Il see if I can help.
IT is my business so hopefully I can help.
But it is vital you change from XP soon
You will be unprotected from anything.
Id bet on a surge in serious consequences from everyone from someone such ad your self right up to high ticket sites where the mind set is. If it aint broke.....
Windows XP while very good has been supassed.
But the final nugget of advice.
Never but ever try Windows 8.1 it is the mosy cynical half thought through over complex and many other things that I cant type here.
For the average user . Their world would end!.
Regards
Jon
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Never but ever try Windows 8.1 it is the mosy cynical half thought through over complex
Nice rant, Mixture. Airship never intimated he'd be using XP for another 20 years unsupported.
Ironically we have onxy recommending we don't update to Windows 8.1. Are you going to give him a rev for that?
For the more-calm types here, my Dad copes with XP but it seems 8 would be a step too far. Would Windows 7 be an option for the next few years for him?
Ironically we have onxy recommending we don't update to Windows 8.1. Are you going to give him a rev for that?
For the more-calm types here, my Dad copes with XP but it seems 8 would be a step too far. Would Windows 7 be an option for the next few years for him?
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Nice rant, Mixture.
Bah humbug scrooge et al.
Airship never intimated he'd be using XP for another 20 years unsupported.
(April 9th is also far less than 20 years).
Ironically we have onxy recommending we don't update to Windows 8.1. Are you going to give him a rev for that?
) users !But honestly, I can't imagine the difference from 8 to 8.1 is so vast as to warrant the rant from onyx !
Still, I've yet to download my free copy from Microsoft, so I'll reserve judgement and report back in due course .... (no doubt our honourable friend, that bloke from Bracknell has already played with 8.1, so he may well report findings sooner)
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It might be a virus you have.
I'm seeing more viruses these days on Windows XP machines than non-XP. Maybe it's coincidence, but maybe it's not.
Mike.
I'm seeing more viruses these days on Windows XP machines than non-XP. Maybe it's coincidence, but maybe it's not.
Mike.
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MB and Others
Having recently gone through the hasstle of gettingg rid of XP (SP3) Pro, all ye out there in "Windows XP" land, remember that; if you decide to stay with Microsoft: budget for some decent "System backup software" -
You are remembering to keep the vital stuff on COPIES on either the "Cloud", USB or DVD/CD's in a systematic way.
Slightly less obvious , make sure you export all your bookmarks from IE8 or FF to files that you can "import" back from at a later stage.
Export all your mail contacts to USB *OK the ones you want to keep.if you are using Outlook or the like - I'm talking POP accounts. Gmail etc will be fine.
Record all your passwords: print the list (for temporary use)
If you are using VM do not forget to "Export" you virtual Machines to Seperate HD's.
Make a note of all the relevent Software keys; of application software that you might want to re install like say Office 2007 or other software.
A lot of older Office versions seem to work OK on later versions of Windows.
Think of Photoshop for example that works as an application Win ME to VISTA.
A warning (especialy for those who should know better)
"There be Dragons out here" - For those out there who really want to grab that that last 1.5 Gb from a 60 Gb USB drive PLEASE when extending or deleting a partition and the phone goes, followed by the Door bell and the smoke alarm, go back to what you were doing - WAIT 20 seconds "Re-orentate brain" remember that you were working with "disk 01 and not disk 0" in my case: and proceed with due care and attention.
And for my next trick.
On that trusty USB Stick with all the relevent activation codes: Note a partial activation code with the last five alphanumeric digits missing is unless.
My backup Software unfortunately did not identify the boot partition even after re installation of the operating System. "Its a long and weary road that many feet have trod"
Beware:
CAT III
Edit: With reference to MB, Microsoft have published a security report detailing the relative infection statistices in infections per 1000 P.C's based on the results gathered from the microsoft anti malware app that runs automatically in a limited way as part of the patch tuesday update process.
Its able to identify if a PC does heve some protection in place, but the stats need to be treated with some caution. See the editorial of a well known PC Mag (Beano Fans think of Gnasher )
You are remembering to keep the vital stuff on COPIES on either the "Cloud", USB or DVD/CD's in a systematic way.
Slightly less obvious , make sure you export all your bookmarks from IE8 or FF to files that you can "import" back from at a later stage.
Export all your mail contacts to USB *OK the ones you want to keep.if you are using Outlook or the like - I'm talking POP accounts. Gmail etc will be fine.
Record all your passwords: print the list (for temporary use)
If you are using VM do not forget to "Export" you virtual Machines to Seperate HD's.
Make a note of all the relevent Software keys; of application software that you might want to re install like say Office 2007 or other software.
A lot of older Office versions seem to work OK on later versions of Windows.
Think of Photoshop for example that works as an application Win ME to VISTA.
A warning (especialy for those who should know better)
"There be Dragons out here" - For those out there who really want to grab that that last 1.5 Gb from a 60 Gb USB drive PLEASE when extending or deleting a partition and the phone goes, followed by the Door bell and the smoke alarm, go back to what you were doing - WAIT 20 seconds "Re-orentate brain" remember that you were working with "disk 01 and not disk 0" in my case: and proceed with due care and attention.
And for my next trick.
On that trusty USB Stick with all the relevent activation codes: Note a partial activation code with the last five alphanumeric digits missing is unless.
My backup Software unfortunately did not identify the boot partition even after re installation of the operating System. "Its a long and weary road that many feet have trod"
Beware:
CAT III
Edit: With reference to MB, Microsoft have published a security report detailing the relative infection statistices in infections per 1000 P.C's based on the results gathered from the microsoft anti malware app that runs automatically in a limited way as part of the patch tuesday update process.
Its able to identify if a PC does heve some protection in place, but the stats need to be treated with some caution. See the editorial of a well known PC Mag (Beano Fans think of Gnasher )
Last edited by Guest 112233; 21st Dec 2013 at 21:52.
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XP still works for a lot of people - having to re-learn a whole bunch of stuff just because Microsoft needs to pay a dividend isn't a reason for a non-power user to upgrade TBH
I work with a mixture of OS's and it's horses for courses -
I work with a mixture of OS's and it's horses for courses -
Controversial, moi?
XP still works for a lot of people - having to re-learn a whole bunch of stuff just because Microsoft needs to pay a dividend isn't a reason for a non-power user to upgrade TBH
I recently sourced and installed a new PC for a friend whose XP box was getting very old and was past its sell by date. Against my instincts I bought her a machine with W8 on it. It drove me nuts for the first few hours, mainly due to not being able to find anything!
After a few more hours and after upgrading to W8 1 I grudgingly found that I quite liked a lot of it.
However, I received a call a few days later from said friend and she was ecstatic that 'It is so much easier to use, I love it!'. Given that she is an utter numpty when ever I had tried to talk her through something over the telephone when she was using XP to say I was shocked was an understatement. I guess from an uninformed user's point of view MS may have actually made a good OS or more accurately a good user interface.
The differences between W8 and W8.1 are neatly shown here.
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I have acquired a new hard drive and burned a DVD with Ubuntu on it. I am now plucking up courage to install same to see if I can rid myself iof the curse of being obliged to upgrade my Microsoft OS. I have Win 7 on the computer on which I am writing this and, for some reason, I cannot get it to reliably store the cookie I need to store my Pprune settings.... and all sorts of other problems. UGH! I just hope Ubuntu will eventually enable me to use my machines like I used to in the days when XP was the current OS.
P.P.
P.P.
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The Upgrade for the uninitiated for Win 8.0 to win 8.1 is it available as an .iso file or do you need to wait for the install ? NB not everyone has a relatively high speed download.
Even the Ubuntu 13.XX iso is too big for a CD, you need a big USB stick.
CAT III Moved
For completness and the very patient:
Update to Windows 8.1 from Windows 8 - Microsoft Windows
The site does not explicitly mention upgrade times but I'm certain if you use a well known browser you may get appropriate info.
PP The constant references to the origional release date of XP are misleading in Computer Science terms when the last SP update was released we had in many ways an eseantially new O/S.
I suspect the Event horizon being waved by the informed members of the "tech press" is based on unstubstantiated crap - Anti Virus Software has evolved to have a very close intertaction with the workings of operating systems - i need more detail here.
I know there are a few very good exeptions, but remember the "maps fiscao" One reviewer for a "National" UK paper chose the location of paper's own offices as a test - Clearly a "Direct entry" command orentated professional captain of the digital universe.
We need a professional computer support persons's rumor network.
[ A personal note: developing software is a war of arttrition - I know it.... The reluctance of IT support staff to embrace "New technology" is founded in years of miserable experence "of the survivours" of modern commercial practice. Incremental change, Ka-San as a management process has been proven to work. Sorry to be so miserable - Bah Hum bug !]
CAT III
Even the Ubuntu 13.XX iso is too big for a CD, you need a big USB stick.
CAT III Moved
For completness and the very patient:
Update to Windows 8.1 from Windows 8 - Microsoft Windows
The site does not explicitly mention upgrade times but I'm certain if you use a well known browser you may get appropriate info.
PP The constant references to the origional release date of XP are misleading in Computer Science terms when the last SP update was released we had in many ways an eseantially new O/S.
I suspect the Event horizon being waved by the informed members of the "tech press" is based on unstubstantiated crap - Anti Virus Software has evolved to have a very close intertaction with the workings of operating systems - i need more detail here.
I know there are a few very good exeptions, but remember the "maps fiscao" One reviewer for a "National" UK paper chose the location of paper's own offices as a test - Clearly a "Direct entry" command orentated professional captain of the digital universe.
We need a professional computer support persons's rumor network.
[ A personal note: developing software is a war of arttrition - I know it.... The reluctance of IT support staff to embrace "New technology" is founded in years of miserable experence "of the survivours" of modern commercial practice. Incremental change, Ka-San as a management process has been proven to work. Sorry to be so miserable - Bah Hum bug !]
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 21st Dec 2013 at 19:39.
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Cat III:
I did the 8.1 on a new ASUS laptop, which arrived with 8. First I had to do all the updates, so that it would in fact go out and find 8.1 on the update site. There were close to 100 updates to 8 alone.
After that, if I recall, the 8.1 showed up as an available update at Microworst's update site. The download was huge, something like 160 megs. (I don't know my "iso's" from a hole in the ground!) The whole process of updating and installing took all of 6 hours, on my DSL broadband line. I'm glad I didn't try to do it on my alternate 4g line, which has a monthly limit.
I have to admit, I was really surprised that when rebooted for the final time, 8.1 booted up and ran without a hitch.
I did the 8.1 on a new ASUS laptop, which arrived with 8. First I had to do all the updates, so that it would in fact go out and find 8.1 on the update site. There were close to 100 updates to 8 alone.
After that, if I recall, the 8.1 showed up as an available update at Microworst's update site. The download was huge, something like 160 megs. (I don't know my "iso's" from a hole in the ground!) The whole process of updating and installing took all of 6 hours, on my DSL broadband line. I'm glad I didn't try to do it on my alternate 4g line, which has a monthly limit.
I have to admit, I was really surprised that when rebooted for the final time, 8.1 booted up and ran without a hitch.
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obgraham
After posting - I found this but all the usual warnings apply.
How to download the official Microsoft Windows 8.1 ISO | How To - CNET
CNET is reputable (I have used the site for ligitimate downloads) but for me the process is untried.
CAT III
How to download the official Microsoft Windows 8.1 ISO | How To - CNET
CNET is reputable (I have used the site for ligitimate downloads) but for me the process is untried.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 21st Dec 2013 at 21:07.
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if you decide to stay with Microsoft: budget for some decent "System backup software" -
You are remembering to keep the vital stuff on COPIES on either the "Cloud", USB or DVD/CD's in a systematic way.
You are remembering to keep the vital stuff on COPIES on either the "Cloud", USB or DVD/CD's in a systematic way.
Drives fail, software goes AWOL, user errors happen AT ANY TIME .... no backup routine and you're asking for trouble.
Bit strongly worded perhaps, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who significantly underestimate the importance of a good backup routine !
(not aimed at CATIII-NDB, talking in general here...)
for a non-power user to upgrade TBH
Its not about power users, its not about supporting Microsoft.
Its to do with the stability of your system, and more importantly the SECURITY of your system.
If you do online banking, undertake e-commerce transactions, keep personal and private information on your PC, you MUST move away from XP.
The only safe XP machine after the 8th of April will be one that is PERMANANETLY disconnected from the internet.
Anti Virus Software has evolved to have a very close intertaction with the workings of operating systems
As I've said before, if I were a member of the dark side community, I would be holding back my best exploits and indeed putting more effort into finding new exploits because I would know how stubborn many XP users will be and hence quality exploits post-April will be worth more than gold.
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Mixture
In my case it was a single point of failure. Me. (re post #17)
Those regular USB stick copies (nested duplicates) + to my suprise, an encrypted copy of my Passwords in the "cloud" came in very handy. After 7 years use I had to really work hard to re establish a working system and I thought I was safe.
To back up your post - The rule of multiple paths of redundancy applies to everyone.
Re the later post, the bad ones and they are clever, will no doubt have a treasure trove, of grief, using techniques that cannot really be discussed here that could be applied across "families of operating systems"
To really look at the dark side of things, like the well known abuse of cryptography now being applied for extortion.
CAT III
Those regular USB stick copies (nested duplicates) + to my suprise, an encrypted copy of my Passwords in the "cloud" came in very handy. After 7 years use I had to really work hard to re establish a working system and I thought I was safe.
To back up your post - The rule of multiple paths of redundancy applies to everyone.
Re the later post, the bad ones and they are clever, will no doubt have a treasure trove, of grief, using techniques that cannot really be discussed here that could be applied across "families of operating systems"
To really look at the dark side of things, like the well known abuse of cryptography now being applied for extortion.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 21st Dec 2013 at 22:14. Reason: Clarification
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Thank you for all your contributions. I've also read through this other current thread here.
Whilst I've known for some time (ever since I bought a new E-IDE 160GB hard disk 3 or 4 years ago and first came across the term SATA, then had to replace my dead graphics card a few months ago with a dusty old generic AGP card supporting 1 monitor only - all I could find on a Saturday morning, which cost €25 at the local PC shop...), that I would have to eventually replace my 10 year old DELL PC, the lack of continued Microsoft support was what most worries me. My last DELL PC cost me €1500 (came with XP Pro) back in 2003. Before that, it was another DELL, bought in 1997 with Office SBE. In between though, I also received a gift "for services rendered" to Microsoft's Paul Allen and his yacht MEDUSE in the form of a retail pack of MS Office 2000.
Everything works for me today: DELL PC / XP PRO SP3 / OFFICE 2000 / IE8 / OUTLOOK EXPRESS 6 etc. and if there's one thing I've learned about IT - if it works, then don't touch it?! OK, fewer websites are willing to ensure that their sites are 100% compatible with IE8, but otherwise...?
The GOOD NEWS is that though my last DELL cost me €1500, it appears that I could currently buy a OPTIPLEX 3020 with INTEL i3-4130 4th generation 3.4GHz / 3MB dual-core processor with integrated graphics card / 500GB hard disk, supplied with Windows 7 PRO (with Windows 8 64bit OS license - whatever that means) for €349 + VAT (without monitor or delivery charges). MS OFFICE 2013 (Family - SBE) available for €199 extra (I need Word and Excel). So the financial cost is not so great a "shock" as what I thought it might be.
What I do not look forward to especially is spending several days at least learning about and configuring the new PC / OS etc. to work "just how I'd like it to", transferring all the data from the old PC to the new PC (presumably would not be able to install the old E-IDE hard disks to the new PC?), then trying to re-install my favourite (and paid-for) programs accumulated over the years which worked on XP PRO...
2 last questions for the sages here though:
1) Would it make more sense to spend a few hundred € more than the DELL hardware above? I don't do any video-editing etc., but my 10 year old DELL was the "bee's knees" when I originally bought it, just in case I meet any Fort Bragg types...
2) Concerning Windows 7 PRO, was that a reliable OS? Apparently the DELL PC would come with that as standard together with "a Windows 8 64 bits" license. Would that allow me to upgrade to Windows 8.1 (and would I want to)?
Whilst I've known for some time (ever since I bought a new E-IDE 160GB hard disk 3 or 4 years ago and first came across the term SATA, then had to replace my dead graphics card a few months ago with a dusty old generic AGP card supporting 1 monitor only - all I could find on a Saturday morning, which cost €25 at the local PC shop...), that I would have to eventually replace my 10 year old DELL PC, the lack of continued Microsoft support was what most worries me. My last DELL PC cost me €1500 (came with XP Pro) back in 2003. Before that, it was another DELL, bought in 1997 with Office SBE. In between though, I also received a gift "for services rendered" to Microsoft's Paul Allen and his yacht MEDUSE in the form of a retail pack of MS Office 2000.
Everything works for me today: DELL PC / XP PRO SP3 / OFFICE 2000 / IE8 / OUTLOOK EXPRESS 6 etc. and if there's one thing I've learned about IT - if it works, then don't touch it?! OK, fewer websites are willing to ensure that their sites are 100% compatible with IE8, but otherwise...?
The GOOD NEWS is that though my last DELL cost me €1500, it appears that I could currently buy a OPTIPLEX 3020 with INTEL i3-4130 4th generation 3.4GHz / 3MB dual-core processor with integrated graphics card / 500GB hard disk, supplied with Windows 7 PRO (with Windows 8 64bit OS license - whatever that means) for €349 + VAT (without monitor or delivery charges). MS OFFICE 2013 (Family - SBE) available for €199 extra (I need Word and Excel). So the financial cost is not so great a "shock" as what I thought it might be.
What I do not look forward to especially is spending several days at least learning about and configuring the new PC / OS etc. to work "just how I'd like it to", transferring all the data from the old PC to the new PC (presumably would not be able to install the old E-IDE hard disks to the new PC?), then trying to re-install my favourite (and paid-for) programs accumulated over the years which worked on XP PRO...
2 last questions for the sages here though:
1) Would it make more sense to spend a few hundred € more than the DELL hardware above? I don't do any video-editing etc., but my 10 year old DELL was the "bee's knees" when I originally bought it, just in case I meet any Fort Bragg types...
2) Concerning Windows 7 PRO, was that a reliable OS? Apparently the DELL PC would come with that as standard together with "a Windows 8 64 bits" license. Would that allow me to upgrade to Windows 8.1 (and would I want to)?
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MS OFFICE 2013 (Family - SBE) available for €199 extra (I need Word and Excel).
https://www.openoffice.org/
If you have concerns regarding compatibility of file formats, there are solutions to that. When I send documents out I save and send them as .pdf. If the recipients need to work on them you can save and send in MS Office format.
I have nothing against MS other than their market domination, and the cost of it would be borne by my clients anyway if I chose to bill it to them, but I like supporting other providers than those who dominate.