Support for XP (Pro) and IE 8 users here on PPRuNe...

[mixture]

Can't recall the last time software downloaded via a repository failed due to unsatisfied dependencies.

Maybe, maybe not, and maybe dependencies might not have been the best example but I've seen lots of examples where software has failed due to failure of one of its dependencies, following an update of one of its dependencies due to a change in configuration file format of the dependency binary.

[cattletruck]

Could Windows 8x be another Vista in the making?

Re opensource repositories you can set up global parameters to preserve backwards compatability. I used to maintain BSD repos and they took a full day to build with some cyclic dependency issues and some tricks to get tools that had obscure X11 library dependencies to build. Not for the faint hearted.

Switched to rpm based distros and never had any issues as long as you updated frequently and paid attention to the release notes.

[Groundgripper]

I came onto this forum for a completely different purpose and tripped over this thread.

So, it would appear that I finally need to get my@rse in gear and update from XP: quite honestly, no surprise there. Being no expert, I had a quick look around and it would seem that installing W8 would result in most of my programs becoming unuseable - again no surprise, we've moved on from Photoshop Elements V2, I guess () and I haven't used Photosuite 4 for some years, so I could do without that. My weather station is compatible with W7 - is that also too early to work on W8? Also new drivers would be necessary for my Canon MX310 printer - I can cope with that. Microsoft Office? Something newer than Office 2003.

Doing a quick Belarc analysis:



I guess I'd need a separate graphics card as I only have 'on-board' graphics, but the rest looks OK to me.

I also have a 2005 vintage laptop (Patriot - PC World branded Advent 7063M) which I assume I'll have to chuck or convert to Linux or Ubuntu; Google Earth won't work on it any more and there's only room for about 1Gb RAM.

My wife has an ASUS Eee(e?) notebook, about 4 years old, also on XP so I assume that that needs a different version of W8.

Rather a lot in one go, I know , but I'd rather get the process sorted out before I'm standing before a computer shop owner who is gently salivating at the thought of his profits for the year suddenly rocketing.
GG

[Keef]

I would upgrade from XP, ideally to Win 7 if you can get hold of a legit copy, otherwise Win 8.1 with the "legacy look", which fixes most of the silliness.

I would stay with Office 2003 if it does what you want.

I bought Office 2007 and found it so bloated with stuff I would never use that I couldn't find the stuff I do use. It has silly ribbons that drop down (as if I needed that many options), and the icons move around depending on which ribbon you/re on. I gave it to my neighbour's daughter, who likes lots of buttons and the like, and went back to 2003 which I still use.

Win 8 is a nightmare (based on three days I spent with it before going back to Win 7, and several comments from other folks whose opinion I respect). Happily, with Win 8.1 there is an option to set it to look and feel like Win 7.

As for drivers - you may be lucky and find that the old ones still work.

[occasional]

if you want to live with a 20 year old OS then feel free to revert to say Win3.1. Good luck on getting any recent software to run on it. You can only keep patching in new technology for so long before it all falls over under the weight of hacks to get stuff working.

I would suggest that most people who buy a PC simply want it to continue doing what they bought it for, until it dies from physical failure. For the great majority , adapting to new technology is of neglible interest, and I doubt that anyone buys a computer to run a program which will be developed in ten years time.

All they need is that the PC keep running the hardware that they originally purchased.

Even so I am amazed at the inability of developers to make software reasonably compatible from one generation to the next.

And your support costs only fall to zero after 10 years if your product is frozen.

As far as I am aware XP is frozen.

Let me guess, it was something niche, specialist and of limited scope. Some sort of embedded system like an FMS ?

Nothing niche or specialist. Much like the stuff that goes into Microsoft operating systems.

I still maintain that you are very much still wearing rose tinted spectacles if you seriously think a modern Operating System, or modern general PC software should last 20 years !

I can think of no good reason that a modern operating system should not last 20 years. The only impediment in principle would appear to be the fact that it does not suit software suppliers.

On occasions an OS may be superseded by events that come as a surprise to the supplier. The appearance of viruses, etc.on a massive scale is clearly such an event, but such a surprise is hardly a normal occurrence.

The vast majority of large buyers operate on a 3 to 5 year lifecycle.

Which might be one reason why people manage to spend extraordinary amounts of money on systems which never get to work. If a hardware supplier had told me that they were working on that sort of lifecycle the conversation would not have continued for much longer, and that was when electronic equipment was far less reliable than it is today.

Quite frankly, talking about 20 years for generic office (or home) systems is simply ludicrous. I think you very well know that.

Ludricrous to who ? The supplier or the customer.

[le Pingouin]

occasional, you'd be happy using a browser that can't access most of the Internet in a usable manner then?

That's the gaping hole in your desire for no change. Many other things move on so your OS needs to as well to keep up.

Remember Win98 and it's security model (or lack thereof)? Would you seriously wish that on anyone in this day and age?

XP might be frozen, but it doesn't mean support costs are nothing. Age doesn't mean no new security flaws. There will be some cracker flaws "released" post April.

[mixture]

occasional,

There is a phrase occasionally used on forums ......

"Don't feed the troll"

I'm afraid I'm going to decline from replying to any more of your ludicrous rants demanding software that lasts 20 years. Try as I might, I can't see any genuine reason for your statements apart from trying to stir things up with some deliberately controversial posts that have no sound reasoning behind them.

Seriously. Just think about all the great developments in hardware and software over the last 20 years. Think about all great developments that are yet to come in the next 20. Then contemplate if you really want to be locked into something equivalent to Windows 3.1 or the Sinclair QL in 20 years time.

[Groundgripper]

I would upgrade from XP, ideally to Win 7 if you can get hold of a legit copy, otherwise Win 8.1 with the "legacy look", which fixes most of the silliness.

Thanks Keef, I'll try that.

GG

[Ancient Observer]

Keef,
I did upgrade my Office from 2003, which I liked, to 2007, which is far too clever for me. It is so different that I can actually do less with it.........

Next time I am conned in to getting the newer, better, I'll keep a copy of the old one, just in case.
BUT - as mixture points out, I am glad that I'm not still on 98 or 3.1.

[Keef]

Many years ago, a wise boss told me it's a nifty idea to be the first to be second - you can learn from the mistakes of the bloke who's too fast off the block.

The other lesson was "always have a path back" - I still have (to this day) the install disks for my Office 2003: this is the third or fourth PC they've been installed on. The updates take a while these days, and the .docX .xlsX and .pptX converters are needed, but I still copy over my "settings" file with things the way I like them.

I still have my two Win 7 install DVDs (I thought I needed two - one for the desktop, one for the laptop). When Win 7 goes, unless there's something as good on offer from MS, I suspect I'll be joining my techie pals round here and using Linux.

[aditya104]

Originally Posted by mixture

for those people thinking of jumping on the silly idea of using POS rather than migrating to Windows 7 or 8... READ THE LICENSE AGREEMENT. For a start, no, you cannot run Office on it, they explicitly tell you that in the agreement.

It can run Office 2007 portable. I will wait till people start installing this OS to find out if there are any issues.

People should just bite the bullet and move to 7 or 8 rather than clinging on to old stuff.

The problem is that I am not sure if the hardware I have (from 2007) will be able to handle Win 8. Even if it does install, I think it will slow the system down by not leaving enough RAM for other applications.

[mixture]

It can run Office 2007 portable. I will wait till people start installing this OS to find out if there are any issues.

Did you even bother to read my post ? Clearly not because all that stupid link you posted is demonstrating people operating in contravention of the license agreement .... Which is illegal.

You are NOT allowed to run Office on POS. End of story.

[le Pingouin]

C'mon Mix, at least use the right terminology. There is nothing illegal about it. It might contravene a licensing agreement but show me a jurisdiction that has a law covering this. Don't tell me you think copyright infringement is theft as well.....

[llondel]

What that means is if you've got software on your Linux box that was compiled against, say version 0.9 of the OpenSSL libraries, but then your next patch pull from the Linux Distribution updates the OpenSSL libraries to 1.0, which breaks your software.

If you're using a mainstream Linux distro then it handles all of that for you. It's no worse than using Windows Update, which has had its howlers over the years. Just occasionally I'll have a hiccup when doing an update, but that's usually because I'm trying to do an update that is still being rolled out to the various mirror sites and it resolves itself (i.e. works) within a few hours.

I would say that Linux Mint is a perfectly adequate replacement for XP if all you need to do is web browsing, read email and do a bit of word processing. It will put in a decent performance on old hardware that can't handle newer Windows versions, too. There's the added advantage of not needing all that anti-virus software slowing the machine down, too.

[MG23]

Originally Posted by Groundgripper

My wife has an ASUS Eee(e?) notebook, about 4 years old, also on XP so I assume that that needs a different version of W8.

Linux works perfectly on my XP-era EeePC. Certainly much better than Window 8 is likely to.

Originally Posted by mixture

Seriously. Just think about all the great developments in hardware and software over the last 20 years.

Almost all of which happened before XP went mainstream. About the only major change since then has been the rise of multi-core CPUs, and even that wasn't such a big deal since my first XP machine was running on a hyperthreading CPU that faked two cores.

A major new OS every couple of years made sense in the 80s and 90s, when technology was changing so fast. It makes no sense today, other than to force users to pay to 'upgrade' when they don't want to.

[JDJ]

I just installed a Linux distribution called "Zorin", which is designed to look and feel a bit like Windows. It certainly runs much better than W7 on a little Samsung Netbook.

Have switched to Apple for the main computer now though!

JJ.

[airship]

XP Pro and IE8...

Just tried accessing the official French lot(t)o website, to check the results from Wednesday's draw (and to find out if I'd won enough to buy a new PC). Not only could I not check any results, I couldn't even play Friday's EuroMillions draw using my online account (with remaining credit) with them.

The FDJ apparently insists on upgrading from IE8 to a newer version, or else installing Firefox, Safari or Chrome...?! MS Update confirms that IE8 is the most recent (last) version for XP.

They're "all ganging up on me" apparently. I reckon the EU should immediately open investigatations as to whether or not there has been any collusion or malpractice, anti-competitive behaviour here...?!

[le Pingouin]

Well airship, the Holocene has well and truly arrived, WinXP users are the Neanderthal meeting their demise in a cave in Spain and the world is moving on.

Anti-competitive? Really?!? MS itself is telling you to stop using IE8 & WinXP. FDJ is very sensibly looking at protecting their business by insisting users use a supported browser.

[Booglebox]

people operating in contravention of the license agreement .... Which is illegal.

Did you ever read the iTunes / iOS agreement? For a while they had a clause where they own your soul, as a joke, because they knew nobody would ever read it.

Anyway, regardless of licensing agreements, it's a bit daft to run POS2009 because it's not actually XP but XP Embedded which is a bit different and not necessarily 100% compatible, and compatibility is the only reason you should have for running this... making the Vista GUI look like XP is probably much easier.
Running Office 2003 on POS2009 is stupid because although the OS gets security updates, Office doesn't.

[Capn Bloggs]

A major new OS every couple of years made sense in the 80s and 90s, when technology was changing so fast. It makes no sense today, other than to force users to pay to 'upgrade' when they don't want to.

I agree.

Airship, you have my sympathies.

The nerds have taken over the asylum.