Question for the gurus
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Question for the gurus
A couple of weeks ago I suffered a strange problem in that when I started the system up in the mornings I got 'no internet connection' the cause of which was an 'unidentified public network' being discovered. Obviously the first thing I did was to run various virus scans, all of which were negative. I then disabled the network in the 'network and sharing' window, did a repair and all was well.
This happened again the next day so a more in depth investigation was carried out which came up with the following parameters:
1) It only happened if windows (V7) arrived at the log-on window before the router had finished initializing and only at the first start up of the day, if I delayed windows start-up by using F8 then no problem occured.
2) I tried deleting the public network by using the 'ROUTE DELETE 0.0.0.0' CMD but the problem was still there next morning.
While I was pondering what to try next, bearing in mind the above took several days, I started to get the message at boot 'the cpu configuration has changed press delete to enter set-up' so I checked an the cpu multiplier had changed so I reset it and carried on. The same thing happened the next morning so I reset it and changed the CMOS battery.
Since then there has been no re-occurrence of the network problem
So the question is : Why should a failing CMOS battery cause windows to find a spurious network?
This happened again the next day so a more in depth investigation was carried out which came up with the following parameters:
1) It only happened if windows (V7) arrived at the log-on window before the router had finished initializing and only at the first start up of the day, if I delayed windows start-up by using F8 then no problem occured.
2) I tried deleting the public network by using the 'ROUTE DELETE 0.0.0.0' CMD but the problem was still there next morning.
While I was pondering what to try next, bearing in mind the above took several days, I started to get the message at boot 'the cpu configuration has changed press delete to enter set-up' so I checked an the cpu multiplier had changed so I reset it and carried on. The same thing happened the next morning so I reset it and changed the CMOS battery.
Since then there has been no re-occurrence of the network problem
So the question is : Why should a failing CMOS battery cause windows to find a spurious network?
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I'd say that it was because your PC clock was wrong due to the failing battery.
As a result of an incorrect time, the time tagged parts of the network access failed. By delaying the boot, allowing the router up first, you were subsequently allowing the NTP service to set your PC clock and so it would work. Rebooting from then on would continue to work as the clock would be correct - surviving the reboot. Switching it off for a long period, again caused a reset and so failure.
The open network problem I'm guessing is a bit of a red herring in that your PC tried connecting to your encrypted network, failed and so reverted to trying to connect to a public open network in the vicinity.
As a result of an incorrect time, the time tagged parts of the network access failed. By delaying the boot, allowing the router up first, you were subsequently allowing the NTP service to set your PC clock and so it would work. Rebooting from then on would continue to work as the clock would be correct - surviving the reboot. Switching it off for a long period, again caused a reset and so failure.
The open network problem I'm guessing is a bit of a red herring in that your PC tried connecting to your encrypted network, failed and so reverted to trying to connect to a public open network in the vicinity.
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A couple of weeks ago I suffered a strange problem in that when I started the system up in the mornings I got 'no internet connection' the cause of which was an 'unidentified public network' being discovered. Obviously the first thing I did was to run various virus scans, all of which were negative. I then disabled the network in the 'network and sharing' window, did a repair and all was well.
This happened again the next day so a more in depth investigation was carried out which came up with the following parameters:
1) It only happened if windows (V7) arrived at the log-on window before the router had finished initializing and only at the first start up of the day, if I delayed windows start-up by using F8 then no problem occured.
2) I tried deleting the public network by using the 'ROUTE DELETE 0.0.0.0' CMD but the problem was still there next morning.
While I was pondering what to try next, bearing in mind the above took several days, I started to get the message at boot 'the cpu configuration has changed press delete to enter set-up' so I checked an the cpu multiplier had changed so I reset it and carried on. The same thing happened the next morning so I reset it and changed the CMOS battery.
Since then there has been no re-occurrence of the network problem
So the question is : Why should a failing CMOS battery cause windows to find a spurious network?
This happened again the next day so a more in depth investigation was carried out which came up with the following parameters:
1) It only happened if windows (V7) arrived at the log-on window before the router had finished initializing and only at the first start up of the day, if I delayed windows start-up by using F8 then no problem occured.
2) I tried deleting the public network by using the 'ROUTE DELETE 0.0.0.0' CMD but the problem was still there next morning.
While I was pondering what to try next, bearing in mind the above took several days, I started to get the message at boot 'the cpu configuration has changed press delete to enter set-up' so I checked an the cpu multiplier had changed so I reset it and carried on. The same thing happened the next morning so I reset it and changed the CMOS battery.
Since then there has been no re-occurrence of the network problem
So the question is : Why should a failing CMOS battery cause windows to find a spurious network?
As regards your other issues, they are not related and are more likely to be due to a failing CMOS battery as mentioned above.
Also. 0.0.0.0 isn't a spurious network, it's the default route. Don't attempt to delete it.
Last edited by Mike-Bracknell; 9th Feb 2013 at 11:52.
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Sorry Mike, I refuse to leave the router on over night, it works perfectly satisfactory that way and has done ever since the advent of ADSL I connect with exactly the same speed as I had at close down around 7.6Mbs which on a nominal8Mbs connection is fine.
The question asked was why a failing battery should cause it.
Bit-twiddler, thanks it could well be a clock related problem, but how would it see a public network before the router had initialised?
As regards your other issues, they are not related and are more likely to be due to a failing CMOS battery as mentioned above.
Bit-twiddler, thanks it could well be a clock related problem, but how would it see a public network before the router had initialised?
Last edited by green granite; 9th Feb 2013 at 12:30.
netsh wlan profiles
Sounds to me that your pc is connecting to a nearby open wireless access access point automatically but is not getting all of the correct settings from the device.
open a command prompt and enter:-
netsh wlan show profiles<Enter>
### looks like this
C: \Users\jim\Documents>netsh wlan show profiles
Profiles on interface Wireless Network Connection:
Group policy profiles (read only)
---------------------------------
<None>
User profiles
-------------
All User Profile : AndroidAP
###
The profile names are the wireless SSID's that have been saved on your PC.
Then delete any User profiles you are not using.
One of them is likely set to autoconnect to BTOpenzone or some such.
e.g. netsh wlan delete profile name="AndroidAP"
I have not tested the last command since I do not particularly want to delete the profile on my PC.
open a command prompt and enter:-
netsh wlan show profiles<Enter>
### looks like this
C: \Users\jim\Documents>netsh wlan show profiles
Profiles on interface Wireless Network Connection:
Group policy profiles (read only)
---------------------------------
<None>
User profiles
-------------
All User Profile : AndroidAP
###
The profile names are the wireless SSID's that have been saved on your PC.
Then delete any User profiles you are not using.
One of them is likely set to autoconnect to BTOpenzone or some such.
e.g. netsh wlan delete profile name="AndroidAP"
I have not tested the last command since I do not particularly want to delete the profile on my PC.
Last edited by jimjim1; 9th Feb 2013 at 12:53.
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Sorry jimjim1, I forgot to say that the PC is connected to the router via an Ethernet connection, not wireless.
Last edited by green granite; 9th Feb 2013 at 14:04.
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its quite simple, and you've answered the question already yourself
you said...."It only happened if windows (V7) arrived at the log-on window before the router had finished initializing "
So, the computer isn't picking up a valid IP address from the router and is instead self-allocating a 169.xxx.xxx.xxx address - which will be invalid on the network. The PC will be attached to the network, but not part of the network. Once the 169. series address is used, that won't change until you reboot, or maybe repair the connection (thats not always reliable)
Its not picking up a valid IP address because the router hasn't booted to a point where it is able to allocate one
The answer?
Leave the router on all the time, as its supposed to be
Or if you really object to that, turn the router on first, go make a cup of coffee, then come back and turn the PC on
you said...."It only happened if windows (V7) arrived at the log-on window before the router had finished initializing "
So, the computer isn't picking up a valid IP address from the router and is instead self-allocating a 169.xxx.xxx.xxx address - which will be invalid on the network. The PC will be attached to the network, but not part of the network. Once the 169. series address is used, that won't change until you reboot, or maybe repair the connection (thats not always reliable)
Its not picking up a valid IP address because the router hasn't booted to a point where it is able to allocate one
The answer?
Leave the router on all the time, as its supposed to be
Or if you really object to that, turn the router on first, go make a cup of coffee, then come back and turn the PC on
Psychophysiological entity
This has been most helpful.
Since getting - totally out of the blue - a new Motorola modem/router, turning it off has caused startup problems. They match the above scenario completely.
Our new deal, AT&T's U-verse, seems okay, but the fitting of a 'Whole House' filter caused some hassles. That's by-the-by.
As an old electronics bod, I've seen too many bits of kit go up in smoke to want to leave cheaply made odds lying around - especially in a wood-framed house. Here, in the Texas drought, my fireman neighbor is never home.
Some of my friends go on holiday with little green lights twinkling away all over the house. It freaks me out.
For now, it's 24/7 and no problems, but if I'm away overnight, then it's that cup of coffee until the new unit has become sapient.
Since getting - totally out of the blue - a new Motorola modem/router, turning it off has caused startup problems. They match the above scenario completely.
Our new deal, AT&T's U-verse, seems okay, but the fitting of a 'Whole House' filter caused some hassles. That's by-the-by.
As an old electronics bod, I've seen too many bits of kit go up in smoke to want to leave cheaply made odds lying around - especially in a wood-framed house. Here, in the Texas drought, my fireman neighbor is never home.
Some of my friends go on holiday with little green lights twinkling away all over the house. It freaks me out.
For now, it's 24/7 and no problems, but if I'm away overnight, then it's that cup of coffee until the new unit has become sapient.
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Milo, it only started happening just before the CMOS battery went tits up, after changing the battery everything now works as it always has done, the computer still arrives at the log-on window before the router finishes initialising, but I no longer have the problem, after all it's been running this way for many years without any problems, since it only faltered when the CMOS battery was on it's way out, it seemed to me that it must be causing a hardware glitch on the motherboard in so much that something wasn't being initialised properly by the bios, and I was hoping someone could tell me which bit. Sorry perhaps my question was a bit too esoteric for here, it's just as an ex service engineer I don't like things doing something out of the ordinary and not find an explanation for it.
Incidentally the router only takes about 25sec longer to fire up than the PC which is about 2minutes,
Incidentally the router only takes about 25sec longer to fire up than the PC which is about 2minutes,
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then the problem was slightly more convoluted, possibly the date was an issue, or maybe the PC was unable to broadcast its MAC address due to the battery screwing up the BIOS. Or maybe the last IP address is normally held in the CMOS but couldn't be due to the battery....(guessing there)
either way, the machine would have been self-allocating a public-range IP address rather than being allocated one by the router, so couldn't communicate
either way, the machine would have been self-allocating a public-range IP address rather than being allocated one by the router, so couldn't communicate
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Once the 169. series address is used, that won't change until you reboot, or maybe repair the connection (thats not always reliable)
If you use a fixed IP address you avoid the kind of hassle you describe, GG, but there may be benefits with DHCP that are necessary in your environment.
SD
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I do use a fixed set of IP addresses for the network Saab, My normal network was shown in the network and sharing centre but it wouldn't connect to it until I disabled the public network, I could connect quite happily after that.
That is certainly what was apparently happening yes.
Anyway thank you gentlemen I shall just put it down to gremlins doing strange things and leave it at that.
either way, the machine would have been self-allocating a public-range IP address rather than being allocated one by the router, so couldn't communicate
Anyway thank you gentlemen I shall just put it down to gremlins doing strange things and leave it at that.
Last edited by green granite; 9th Feb 2013 at 21:14.
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I answered the question by saying it wasn't related (which it isn't).
The CMOS battery has nothing to do with the network save for potentially disabling an onboard NIC (which would cause more problems than this) or changing the chip timings such that the NIC is powered earlier or later in the boot process. Either way, it's not really connected (certainly not enough to be a factor in your issue).
The CMOS battery has nothing to do with the network save for potentially disabling an onboard NIC (which would cause more problems than this) or changing the chip timings such that the NIC is powered earlier or later in the boot process. Either way, it's not really connected (certainly not enough to be a factor in your issue).
