Who's your internet provider?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 92
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From: Surrey
Who's your internet provider?
I hope it's not BT, Virgin Media or Talk Talk.
The above mentioned providers have apparently reached agreement with Phorm to sell your surfing destinations to enable them to target advertising more specifically at you.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...a_summer_2007/
The company mentioned Phorm have gone through several name changes in their time - not surprisingly since they apparently have their roots in spyware.
The above mentioned providers have apparently reached agreement with Phorm to sell your surfing destinations to enable them to target advertising more specifically at you.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02...a_summer_2007/
The company mentioned Phorm have gone through several name changes in their time - not surprisingly since they apparently have their roots in spyware.
Joined: Jan 2008
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 340
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From: UK
I do believe they have to give you the "option to opt out" .......
Luckily, however, I don't use them..... but I suspect if it's an earner then it won't be long before the others join in.
Luckily, however, I don't use them..... but I suspect if it's an earner then it won't be long before the others join in.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 755
Likes: 26
From: Dublin, Ireland. (No, I just live here.)
Ugh. But there is something you can do: run Firefox, with a couple of plugins:
- AdBlock Plus, plus the Filterset.G Updater
- NoScript.
The last mentioned gives you control over Javascript, which is how this Phorm stuff works. By default, nothing runs, but you can set it so that scripts always run if they belong to the site you actively went to,and 3rd-party scripts are blocked - which suits GMail etc.
- AdBlock Plus, plus the Filterset.G Updater
- NoScript.
The last mentioned gives you control over Javascript, which is how this Phorm stuff works. By default, nothing runs, but you can set it so that scripts always run if they belong to the site you actively went to,and 3rd-party scripts are blocked - which suits GMail etc.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 798
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From: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
More bang for your buck
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 1
From: land of the clanger
If you go to http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.html It tells you if it's switched on or not or as in my case that it's not available in my area.
They very craftily tie it up with a so called security feature
They very craftily tie it up with a so called security feature
BT Webwise helps to increase your protection against online fraud and make your Internet browsing more relevant.
BT Webwise automatically increases your protection against online fraud by checking against a list of known fraudulent and untrustworthy websites. When you visit any website on the list, you'll receive a warning, so you can choose whether or not to visit it. It's another way BT is helping to protect you online.
BT Webwise also personalises the online advertising you see on participating websites by linking it to your interests. For example, if you search for a weekend trip to Paris or visit pages related to Paris, BT Webwise would help provide relevant advertising for travel or hotel information. You won't see pop ups. You won't see any more adverts than you normally do — they'll just be more relevant!
BT Webwise automatically increases your protection against online fraud by checking against a list of known fraudulent and untrustworthy websites. When you visit any website on the list, you'll receive a warning, so you can choose whether or not to visit it. It's another way BT is helping to protect you online.
BT Webwise also personalises the online advertising you see on participating websites by linking it to your interests. For example, if you search for a weekend trip to Paris or visit pages related to Paris, BT Webwise would help provide relevant advertising for travel or hotel information. You won't see pop ups. You won't see any more adverts than you normally do — they'll just be more relevant!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 17
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From: Occasionally sunny MK
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to matter if you opt in or out.
The system only appears to check for the presence of the opt out cookie *after* your browser request has gone through the profiler. So all you actually opt out of are the targeted ads. Phorm still get the marketing data.
Was with BT, now have the MACs for my 2 accounts and actively looking for a principled ISP.
The closest real world analogy to what they are doing is having your postman open all your mail, read it through for keywords and seal it back up so he can better target you with more relevant junk mail. Obviously totally acceptable
Make no mistake, even if you have logged in to PPRuNe, any posts you make here are on an unencrypted (non-HTTPS) page and would be included in the profiler, as would any mail you checked via web-mail.
Edited to include last 2 paras
The system only appears to check for the presence of the opt out cookie *after* your browser request has gone through the profiler. So all you actually opt out of are the targeted ads. Phorm still get the marketing data.
Was with BT, now have the MACs for my 2 accounts and actively looking for a principled ISP.
The closest real world analogy to what they are doing is having your postman open all your mail, read it through for keywords and seal it back up so he can better target you with more relevant junk mail. Obviously totally acceptable
Make no mistake, even if you have logged in to PPRuNe, any posts you make here are on an unencrypted (non-HTTPS) page and would be included in the profiler, as would any mail you checked via web-mail.
Edited to include last 2 paras
Last edited by Mav64; 20th March 2008 at 11:57.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 17
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From: Occasionally sunny MK
Yes, the people that are looking at suing BT were business customers!
When approached about it, BT outright lied that they were anything to do with the anomalous browser behaviour these guys noticed.
Add to that, I think it's under the DPA, trialling a system on live customer data is illegal.
I'm awaiting responses from Aquiss and IDnet regarding their policy regarding Phorm. Zen, so far, seem to be the only one that have stated they will have nothing to do with it.
When approached about it, BT outright lied that they were anything to do with the anomalous browser behaviour these guys noticed.
Add to that, I think it's under the DPA, trialling a system on live customer data is illegal.
I'm awaiting responses from Aquiss and IDnet regarding their policy regarding Phorm. Zen, so far, seem to be the only one that have stated they will have nothing to do with it.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 805
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From: U.K.
Out of interest, I contacted my ISP, www.plus.com about "phorm".
Within a short time, I received this e-mailed reply:
"Dear P.P.,
Thank-you for your query. We have no plans to implement any of Phorm's technology in any capacity.
If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to get in touch.
Regards,
Plus.com"
P.P.
Within a short time, I received this e-mailed reply:
"Dear P.P.,
Thank-you for your query. We have no plans to implement any of Phorm's technology in any capacity.
If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to get in touch.
Regards,
Plus.com"
P.P.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 17
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From: Occasionally sunny MK
Thanks P.P.
Aquiss, Zen, Seriously!, Fast and Entanet (I guess that means their resellers too) have publicly stated they won't have anything to do with this.
IDnet have just called me back and confirmed the same.
Happy (unprofiled) surfing to all
Aquiss, Zen, Seriously!, Fast and Entanet (I guess that means their resellers too) have publicly stated they won't have anything to do with this.
IDnet have just called me back and confirmed the same.
Happy (unprofiled) surfing to all
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 92
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From: Surrey
As a BT customer you can see why I was concerned enough to start this thread. Of course as has been said upthread (is that a word?) where BT go today I'm sure others will follow- if they get away with it.
There is a thread currently running on a BT support forum http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...art=0&tstart=0
where this is being debated. It is very much up to date and BT staff do contribute. However if you were to read through it, and unfortunately it's over 20 pages long, you'll find that the staff have been frequently contradicting one another and Phorm employees contradicting them.
Staff have been caught out lying in the thread too.
It appears that BT have been less than honest about the whole matter.
There is a thread currently running on a BT support forum http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...art=0&tstart=0
where this is being debated. It is very much up to date and BT staff do contribute. However if you were to read through it, and unfortunately it's over 20 pages long, you'll find that the staff have been frequently contradicting one another and Phorm employees contradicting them.
Staff have been caught out lying in the thread too.
It appears that BT have been less than honest about the whole matter.
Jack's Granddad
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire
In response to my query, have been informed by my ISP (Madasafish) that they "have no intention of using Phorm". I have previously had direct dealings with the lady who gave me this promise and she has always been reliable in the past.
Mostly reassured by this but I cannot put out of my mind that Maaf were recently bought out by BT although they do still seem to be operating independently.
Mostly reassured by this but I cannot put out of my mind that Maaf were recently bought out by BT although they do still seem to be operating independently.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 805
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From: U.K.
Well, I've just managed to get throughthe entire thread on the BT website referred to above. The obvious solution to all the concerns being aired there is "find another isp". My isp, as I have posted above has categorically stated that they have no intention of incorporating Phorm, however, as was pointed out on the BT website, plus.com is now owned by BT. Althought it would appear that they have managerial independence at present, for how long?
P.P.
P.P.
Last edited by P.Pilcher; 21st March 2008 at 22:06.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 319
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From: Wivenhoe, not too far from the Clacton VOR
There is a good article about this in this months Computing Which? It would seem that the Information Commisioner's Office is now involved, requesting info from Phorm and from the three ISP's so far involved (BT, Virgin Media, and Talk Talk). Talk Talk it would seem is the only ISP to indicate that its customers will need to opt in rather than opt out. The Consumers Association is also to be involved in discussions about Phorm.
So far my ISP (Orange/Wanadoo/Freeserve) does not seem to be involved.
So far my ISP (Orange/Wanadoo/Freeserve) does not seem to be involved.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Manchester, UK
Phorm.
...a company run by and employing some folks with a very checkered past... is attempting to take advantage of ISPs' lust for advertising dollars, and setup a centrally controlled system (spanning not only ISPs, but countries) that is designed to capture, analyze, and retain information about the browsing histories and behavior of hundreds of millions of individuals. On top of that, the system is designed to deliver content to and redirect browsers based on very fine grained channel rules. It is not only a wet dream for targeted advertisers, but for government agencies and hackers as well. Which is of even greater concern give that the software for the system is the product of Russian developers and Phorm has said that ISPs aren't given access to the source code.
But Phorm promises that their system won't store or use personal information. Honest.
So we don't need to worry about that then, do we?
...a company run by and employing some folks with a very checkered past... is attempting to take advantage of ISPs' lust for advertising dollars, and setup a centrally controlled system (spanning not only ISPs, but countries) that is designed to capture, analyze, and retain information about the browsing histories and behavior of hundreds of millions of individuals. On top of that, the system is designed to deliver content to and redirect browsers based on very fine grained channel rules. It is not only a wet dream for targeted advertisers, but for government agencies and hackers as well. Which is of even greater concern give that the software for the system is the product of Russian developers and Phorm has said that ISPs aren't given access to the source code.
But Phorm promises that their system won't store or use personal information. Honest.
So we don't need to worry about that then, do we?