XP Problem

[boofhead]

Would appreciate if someone has seen this and can help?
PC has XP with SP2 (old version, SP2 is added as download). Has been running fine for quite a while, but now if it is shut down (power failure etc) it will not complete the boot process, remains at the entry screen where the little blue thingies run across that little window. No beeps or anything and it seems content to do that for hours.
I can force it to start by manually shutting it down and restarting in safe mode, then do a restart and it goes into normal mode. It does not help to use system restore.
I think it is a Windows problem and am contemplating reinstalling XP but will that destroy my programs? Is there a way to find out what is wrong and fix just that?
Thanks in advance...

[Richard Spandit]

Reinstalling XP shouldn't affect your programs, as long as you don't choose to format any partitions. It should recognise your existing installation.

Do you say that if the computer is off, when you turn it on again it will start up normally - it only hangs after a power cut? How long have you left it for - Windows performs a disk check after an unscheduled reboot which may take some time for a large disk on a slow computer... if the several hours you say is true, then there is something wrong

[boofhead]

It does not make any difference how it was shut down, normally or through a power cut, or reboot whatever..it will not go past the first screen (XP intro?) but hangs there for as many hours as I will leave it. Nothing seems to be happening in the computer either, no HDD noise etc. I do a manual shutdown from that screen, select safe mode, it boots up, then I shut it down again and re-start and it works. Runs well when it is working. It is PC I made myself, and I have good parts in it, using P4 and good bus speeds, and uses an old copy of XP that does not have SP2 so I have to add that after loading the OS. Unfortunately I live in a place that has almost daily power cuts, so leaving it running all the time is not an option...

[BOAC]

IF you do a full re-install, it will require a re-install of all your progs. I cheated and copied my doc and settings away before and then back. Needed to use Win 2000 to do that as files were otherwise 'in use'. Some progs 'ran' and some needed re-install.

If you can, select 'install' using the boot CD and then 'repair' the relevant installation. That way you keep all as is. Then slipstream SP2 into your CD files and remake a boot CD - it saves a lot of time!

If you cannot get the option to repair the system after selecting 'install', you need to juggle with 'bootcfg'. PM me.

[boofhead]

Do you have the sequence of events during the initial boot process? It seems that something in the initial routine is causing the problem, and maybe I can fix that? Reinstalling is always worse than I expect it to be, and I am bound to lose my settings..

[whiz]

Boofhead,

I had the exact same problem a few months ago. It turned out to be the PSU which couldn't cope with all the USB connections I had plugged in. Try unplugging one or more USB connections you have connected before you reboot.

[effortless]

Select bootlog then you can see where it hangs. It may be a driver that's the prob.

[psy clops]

Reinstalling is always worse than I expect it to be

Boof,

Repairing is not a drama with XP. Do it this way and you’ll be as safe as houses…(apologies if I’m talking down to you)

First ensure that the BIOS is configured to allow the machine to boot from the CD first (let me know if you need assistance with that). Put the XP CD in the CD-ROM drive. Switch power off (ideally removing the plug for 15 seconds as this will allow the flash memory in the RAM to purge – which might be your problem, but rare for RAM to kark it nowdays).

Switch on computer. After the RAM test, you should be asked something like “press any key to boot from CD”. Press any key at this point.
CD will do its thing for 3-5 mins, whilst saying “Windows is loading setup files (or similar). Next it will say “Windows is searching for previously loaded copies of Windows XP).

You will now get a prompt that says something like: To repair a previously loaded copy of XP press R; to load a fresh copy of Windows press ‘Enter’”.
At this point press enter <do not press R, otherwise you’ll get into the repair console = complicated!>

There will be some more whirring from CD-ROM drive and it’ll say something like:
“Windows is inspecting you hard drives, please wait”

You’ll now have a subdivided screen, with the bottom half being a box with white boarders. Inside this will be the details of you hard drive’s partition information. It’ll say something like:
Primary partition C: Windows 32768 MB free
Non-partition: 8MB free

Now windows will once again give you the option of:

If you want to load a new copy of XP, press enter
If you want to repair the current copy of Windows XP – press R.

At this point, press R for repair <DO NOT LOAD A FRESH COPY AT THIS POINT (so long all data… )>

Next, go and make tea / drink beer (delete as appropriate), as the repair process can take the best part of 30 minutes.
Once it has done its thing, you should be able to log on in the same way and all your settings will be unchanged.

Three points before you start:
1. Back up your data just in case.
2. If you have a hardware confliction / problem / virus this might not do the trick - but it'll not leave you in a worse position.
3. BACK UP YOUR DATA!

Hope this helps!
Psy

[vapilot2004]

It does not help to use system restore.

That is worrying !

I have a few non-destructive ideas:

Definately take Effortless' advice and choose logged startup to create a bootlog.txt file. (upon boot - bang the F8 key repeatedely to get to the XP startup options)

Try disconnecting all external hardware (especially USB) and see if that helps.
Plug in 1 by one to isolate if this allows you to boot normally

Once up and into XP, click START > RUN and type msconfig. In the Boot TAB choose Diagnostic Startup - If you can restart OK - uncheck items in the Services TAB and Startup TABs until you've found the culprit. A simple registry edit or driver/program re-install may be the cure.

Good Luck

[boofhead]

I took out a couple of seldom-used USB devices and it now works OK. I hope that was the problem, and will let you know if it re-occurs. Thanks for all the help, fantastic.

[boofhead]

I have a bigger problem now, the machine will no longer boot even from safe mode. Using the CD it will, and it leads to a choice of R or Load XP. If I press R it leads to a C prompt. In R, if I select FIXBOOT it warns me to go ahead only if I am sure (and I am not) and with FIXMBR it warns me I could lose access to the drive completely.
Using load it leads to a choice of only reinstalling XP, including formatting the drive. It does not allow a second shot at repair (R).
During the attempt to load in safe mode it tells me now I have a faulty \WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIGSYSTEM file. It says I can attempt to fix it using the original disk and R console, but as I said, it does not open any such console.
Any help appreciated..

[NotTheOrganGrinder]

Instead of selecting safe mode, try using the 'Last known good configuration' selection.

I had exactly the same problem, but I can't boot from CD as the drive is duff (dropped laptop 4 feet). The last known good config got it back first time.

If this gets it to boot up, run chkdisf /f to run a full disk check, also try running sfc.exe /scannow

chkdisk reports and tries to fix disk corruption, sfc restores system files that may be corrupt or overwritten with a incompatible version. For sfc, you may be required to put in the windows cdrom, or have access to service pack files.

[vapilot2004]

As my uncle is known for saying- 'that's not too good', BH

Let me ask you this - have you backed up your files ? - are there things on this pc that you don't want to lose ?

Before any more repair work is done to XP you might want to backup your data.

1.The DOS window you are presented with is, unfortunately, the repair console. From here we can list files and tediously copy files one at a time - but only within the same mounted drive (not from CD or other drive) - it's a pain but works.

2.Your XP CD can repair windows - it is an option when you choose to Install XP - then choose to Install in the same Partition -then (IMPORTANT) choose Leave the file system intact - then install in the same directory. (usually c : \windows). You will get a warning of overwriting the current installation. You will several steps later be allowed to choose to Repair. Your programs may not all work and you need to back up the contents of the Documents and Settings folders to retain your My Documents, Favorites, emails, address book and so on before you run the CD.

3. XP Brain Surgery - To get your copy of XP back up you will either need a working PC with Win XP or 2000 to put your drive in and move some files around (and while you're in there backup if you need) - OR put a 2nd drive (even an old one) in your machine to run through the XP install on that drive -then reconnecting your drive and doing the XP file replacement from that installation.

The surgery is a matter of replacing the missing or damaged registry files in the system\config directory with ones from one of your restore points located in a hidden folder called System Volume Information. This is a special folder that can only be accessed from outside of it's owner - the owner being your damaged copy of XP.

The files you need to replace are SAM, Security, Default, Software and System. Restore points have copies of these in the SVI special folder. This may get your copy back up and working. Give me a post or PM and I will be glad to walk you through the copying process.

I have to be honest though - if there are other damaged areas of XP, both of these methods may work, but may not be stable in the long run. On the other hand - it may all work out fine.


vap

[Troy McClure]

If data not backed up, now might be a good time to buy a new (larger) hard drive. Replace existing drive with the new drive. Install XP, (if your disk doesn't include SP2, would recommend borrowing a CD from a mate that does; not illegal cos you'll install with your serial number).

Install software, esp. antivirus (in case that was the problem on the old drive).

Shut down, set the jumper on your old drive to 'Slave', plug it into the connector half way down the data cable and find a spare power lead for it from the PSU.

Start up and you should have a Drive D as well as Drive C.

Run a virus check on all drives.

You can now copy any documents from D to C. When happy you've got everything, reformat Drive D.

I'd then recommend setting up windows so that your 'My Documents' folder is on Drive D, not Drive C. That way you're protected from similar problems in future - if Windows screws up, or slows down, or gets generally clogged up with crap, you can reformat your C drive and reinstall XP and other software without having to worry about your documents.

[boofhead]

Man the agony.
I put another drive into the computer and loaded XP/SP2 onto it, hoping to be able to read the original drive, which is now F drive (actually it is F and G since the drive is partitioned, unfortunately the F drive is the one that has the OS and my files on it. The G drive is OK, can be read normally, but it has nothing on it I want.
The F drive is indicating that it is RAW, and will not respond to any input from the new C drive or XP. (it was originally NTSF).
I have been playing with a couple of recovery programs (free to evaluate but a cost if I want to copy anything that is recovered) but they are very slow and so far nothing usable has come out of them, apart from my pictures maybe and a couple of essays my kids wrote for school. One of my files has a lot of data on it written over a couple of years, and it is obviously fragmented. Unless I can find the pieces I will be mighty upset about losing that one.
I can get the drive professionally read for around $100, has anyone done that and what was the result? Has anyone used a recovery program and did it work? They sell for around $80, but if they are OK I could always justify it for future use.
I have no recent backups and although I know they are important, that drive was fairly new, and has lots and lots of stuff on it. Backing up would have been impractical. Even now, I don't see backing up as practical. I would need a monster drive to store all the data I don't want to lose.
So it looks as if the drive itself is working, and the problem is in the boot files (It stops at Config/System.alt during safe mode bootup) . If there was a way to load them again and recover the disk long enough to copy the really important stuff, I would be grateful to learn..

[maxell]

I have had some success recovering data from hardrives using Knoppix which is a cd or dvd based operating system can be downloaded from [URL="http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html"]
or try this recovery tool see if it helps [URL="http://www.officerecovery.com/freeundelete/"]

[vapilot2004]

You should be able to access the drive normally VIA XP unless perhaps the partition table was damaged. Sounds like a partition operation or XP installation gone awry if the drive is showing as RAW.

The good news here is that NTFS has built in redundancy when it comes to the file structure. A good recovery person (or software) should be able to extract your stuff (likely most of it residing in Documents and Settings) if it has not been re-formatted. Norton has options for recovering files, partitions and repairing the allocation tables. Knoppix as Maxell offers is a Linux-based OS that can understand the NTFS system. But as with Norton recovery options, you could unwittingly make it worse.

The more 'repair' work that is attempted but not succeeding, the less likely that accessing your data becomes. For $100 you may want to have the professionals have a look. Recovery prices can be much higher in the case of a physically failed drive - your drive sounds like it is for the time being physically ok.

[Big_Johnno]

I would Get a Good quality UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) they are about $150US. This will stop the power supply problems and give you time to shutdown correctly or can also be setup with software to automaticly shut the computer down after a set period in the event of a power failure. They also stop voltage fluctuations (Average +50 per day) that can cause all sorts of problems with computers. Download all the windows updates which fixed problems i was having with SP2 when i first installed it from a download and keep your virus scanner up to date along with anti spyware software Eg; spyblaster, spybot & Ad-aware all free. also follow psy clops's advice. Also make sure all your drivers are up to date as well.
John

[boofhead]

I agree with all that, but with four computers running in the house (I work from home, there are four kids living here, and the computer that crashed is the one the missus uses) putting UPS and so on on all that would be a real pain. Backups are hard enough, and would keep me employed full time.
Although the problems I have been having getting some recovery might make me think again!
We get a lot of power problems here (Alaska), and at the moment there is a thick layer of glazed ice around the front yard and the driveway, getting out is tough, even with studs and chains (both!) so communications are important, especially for work. Maybe I should shift to Linux instead.

[Big_Johnno]

If you are running a business you need a reliable computer infrastructure and a loss of a vital piece of equipment at the wrong time could have serious consequences. With todays moden computer systems and software you can virtually automate everything including updates and backup. If your computer contains data that is absolutly vital it is a good idea to have a raid (mirrored) system in case a hard drive fails. inexpensive with a simple raid card and another hard drive. If you have power failures or fluctuations on a regular basis then a UPS is cheap insurance and some even low cost ones include insurance to cover equipment loss caused by a power spike or surge. Linux is not a fix either although it is a good operating system (I run it on several machines) it still doesn't prevent hard drive failures of power surges ie: Data Loss.
John