Imminent Hard Drive Failure!
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Some good suggestions there, I'll give them a try tonight. I agree with you Richard that I thought the hard drive would make more noises if it was about to give up the ghost.
Unfortunately I've just been told that the thing froze again, so hopefully some of the suggestions may yield a solution. (Note the slow distancing of it from myself now)
The suggestion about upgrading to XP seems that it may be valid, I've found an OEM version for £61 (inc VAT) but I can't find much information about how it's better or what it improves upon, so,
What's so special about XP?
Does it do much more than ME?
It seems to need a more powerful system to operate wouldn't that just use more of my resources and slow down my applications?
Most new viruses seem to be written to work in XP, would I not be opening myself up to attack?
Does it make applications more efficient?
Cheers.
Unfortunately I've just been told that the thing froze again, so hopefully some of the suggestions may yield a solution. (Note the slow distancing of it from myself now)
The suggestion about upgrading to XP seems that it may be valid, I've found an OEM version for £61 (inc VAT) but I can't find much information about how it's better or what it improves upon, so,
What's so special about XP?
Does it do much more than ME?
It seems to need a more powerful system to operate wouldn't that just use more of my resources and slow down my applications?
Most new viruses seem to be written to work in XP, would I not be opening myself up to attack?
Does it make applications more efficient?
Cheers.
The Oracle
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Jason,
It is hard to list all the improvements which are in WinXP vs WinME. You will find that WinXP runs on the WinNT Kernel vs the Win9X Kernel of WinME. WinXP is more stable and robust than WinME.
All Win9X support is being dropped and any new hardware and software is coming out specifically for WinXP with little to no testing with Win9X.
As for viruses, there are just as many Win9X viruses out there as WinXP viruses. The only difference is Microsoft still supports WinXP and puts patches out for it regularly.
Take Care,
Richard
It is hard to list all the improvements which are in WinXP vs WinME. You will find that WinXP runs on the WinNT Kernel vs the Win9X Kernel of WinME. WinXP is more stable and robust than WinME.
All Win9X support is being dropped and any new hardware and software is coming out specifically for WinXP with little to no testing with Win9X.
As for viruses, there are just as many Win9X viruses out there as WinXP viruses. The only difference is Microsoft still supports WinXP and puts patches out for it regularly.
Take Care,
Richard
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SoftTop,
I use Win9X as a generic term for Win95a, Win95b, Win98, Win98SE, WinME and WinNT as a generic term for WinNT, Win2k, WinXP, Win2k3, since all the Win9X OS's originated from the original Win9X Kernel and WinNT OS's originated from the original WinNT Kernel.
Take Care,
Richard
I use Win9X as a generic term for Win95a, Win95b, Win98, Win98SE, WinME and WinNT as a generic term for WinNT, Win2k, WinXP, Win2k3, since all the Win9X OS's originated from the original Win9X Kernel and WinNT OS's originated from the original WinNT Kernel.
Take Care,
Richard
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TCS, Naples,
thanks for that guys.
I suppose it's all down to semantics. My simple picture of the Windows(r) world has now been enriched and I should, now, be able do even better in those pub quizzes I keep losing!
Regards
ST
I had one of my HDDs fail about a month ago. It started making repetitive clicking noises during boot up although I did manage to access the data held on it (luckily it was data I could afford to lose - without too many tears - and not the master disk). Then it died completely, although still repetitive clicking, and wouldn\'t allow access to data at all. So, does that sound like damaged platters or failing electronics?
Next question is, has anyone managed to recover data from a knackered disk by buying the same model and swapping the electronics? I reckon that the HDD is OK mechanically - not sure about surface of platters - and that it\'s the hardware that\'s died. I\'m willing to give that a go if there\'s a warm feeling about the process.
ST
thanks for that guys.
I suppose it's all down to semantics. My simple picture of the Windows(r) world has now been enriched and I should, now, be able do even better in those pub quizzes I keep losing!
Regards
ST
I had one of my HDDs fail about a month ago. It started making repetitive clicking noises during boot up although I did manage to access the data held on it (luckily it was data I could afford to lose - without too many tears - and not the master disk). Then it died completely, although still repetitive clicking, and wouldn\'t allow access to data at all. So, does that sound like damaged platters or failing electronics?
Next question is, has anyone managed to recover data from a knackered disk by buying the same model and swapping the electronics? I reckon that the HDD is OK mechanically - not sure about surface of platters - and that it\'s the hardware that\'s died. I\'m willing to give that a go if there\'s a warm feeling about the process.
ST
ST
Tried that once for a mate with no success
Seems you have to have
Same make (obvious)
Same size
Same Version (that was the hard bit)
and a small Torx driver (also good for pulling mobile phones apart after inadvertant dunking
)
Got to the stage where HD was recognised and platters spun up but no go.
Next stage was to physically transfer the platters but I chickened out about then
It is always worth a try if you need the data
If you REALLY need the data there are commercial companies that do recover data but it aint cheap !
Max
Tried that once for a mate with no success
Seems you have to have
Same make (obvious)
Same size
Same Version (that was the hard bit)
and a small Torx driver (also good for pulling mobile phones apart after inadvertant dunking
)Got to the stage where HD was recognised and platters spun up but no go.
Next stage was to physically transfer the platters but I chickened out about then
It is always worth a try if you need the data
If you REALLY need the data there are commercial companies that do recover data but it aint cheap !
Max
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Remember to backup
From Sotftop's experience, perhaps a timely reminder to repeat the earlier advice of matkat and "Naples", if your data is important, then make sure you take regular backups (as well as system recovery disk(s)!). With the price of hard disks these days, it is probably cheaper to invest in and use a reliable backup process, and throw your hard disk away at the first sign of permanent problems!
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ME is prone to such behaviour.
Boot up go to START > RUN > msconfig
go to the START UP tab and remove all check marks by programs that load on startup, then re-boot and see what happens. I had an ME computer the other day doing exactly what you describe and this sorted it out. If all seems well, go back to MSCONFIG and just emable what you need (virus scanner etc) and see what happens.
On the IDE devices, rather than use Cable Select, set them to actual MASTER and SLAVE. Sometimes when CS is selected it can take ages, and hang, when detecting IDE devices.
EA
Boot up go to START > RUN > msconfig
go to the START UP tab and remove all check marks by programs that load on startup, then re-boot and see what happens. I had an ME computer the other day doing exactly what you describe and this sorted it out. If all seems well, go back to MSCONFIG and just emable what you need (virus scanner etc) and see what happens.
On the IDE devices, rather than use Cable Select, set them to actual MASTER and SLAVE. Sometimes when CS is selected it can take ages, and hang, when detecting IDE devices.
EA
The Oracle
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Max,
Do not transfer the platters. If you want to get data off a dead drive, get an identical drive and transfer the Circuit Board off the back to the dead drive. Most of the time, this will bring the drive back to life. If that does not do it, then transfer the heads. (Very tricky operation and can easily damage both drives.)
Take Care,
Richard
Do not transfer the platters. If you want to get data off a dead drive, get an identical drive and transfer the Circuit Board off the back to the dead drive. Most of the time, this will bring the drive back to life. If that does not do it, then transfer the heads. (Very tricky operation and can easily damage both drives.)
Take Care,
Richard
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Where do I start???
The computer is still freezing even with the fan. I tried the msconfig tip from EnglishAL and basically with any of the startup files unchecked the system gets to the point of about to load windows and then turns itself off. Last night I thought, stuff it all, and went for a re install of ME over my existing installation. The computer froze somewhere in the middle of updating the file system. The computer is somewhere in the region of undead at the moment, sometimes freezes on starting othertimes it seems to be trying to update files, and even sometimes boots from the CD and tries to continue the install. I'm now thinking of getting some pieces of information of the hard drive that don't normally get backed up (ISP connection phone number etc.) and reformat if I can't get a reinstall to work tonight.
I guess my next question is should I buy a new hard drive and work from that or trust that my current one isn't on it's last legs and continue to use it?
I tought that if I get a new one I can make my current drive D: do a fresh install on C: (new drive) then maybe still access D: and transfer across all I can and want. Will this just increase the chance of transferring the problem over?
TCS, I'm afraid I've not managed to find my current BIOS version yet (trying to do too many things both on the computer and around the house). Do you think it might be worth trying to see if there are any updates?
Memetic, Knoppix sounds like it could be very useful. I'll be in touch.
Thanks for all of the suggestions and help guys.
Jason.
One other thing, if/when I reinstall is there a preferred order that I should reinstall all my hardware and software?
Graphics card, motherboard, virus checker, modem, printer, etc.
The computer is still freezing even with the fan. I tried the msconfig tip from EnglishAL and basically with any of the startup files unchecked the system gets to the point of about to load windows and then turns itself off. Last night I thought, stuff it all, and went for a re install of ME over my existing installation. The computer froze somewhere in the middle of updating the file system. The computer is somewhere in the region of undead at the moment, sometimes freezes on starting othertimes it seems to be trying to update files, and even sometimes boots from the CD and tries to continue the install. I'm now thinking of getting some pieces of information of the hard drive that don't normally get backed up (ISP connection phone number etc.) and reformat if I can't get a reinstall to work tonight.
I guess my next question is should I buy a new hard drive and work from that or trust that my current one isn't on it's last legs and continue to use it?
I tought that if I get a new one I can make my current drive D: do a fresh install on C: (new drive) then maybe still access D: and transfer across all I can and want. Will this just increase the chance of transferring the problem over?
TCS, I'm afraid I've not managed to find my current BIOS version yet (trying to do too many things both on the computer and around the house). Do you think it might be worth trying to see if there are any updates?
Memetic, Knoppix sounds like it could be very useful. I'll be in touch.
Thanks for all of the suggestions and help guys.
Jason.
One other thing, if/when I reinstall is there a preferred order that I should reinstall all my hardware and software?
Graphics card, motherboard, virus checker, modem, printer, etc.
Last edited by Cool_Hand; 29th Jun 2004 at 10:33.
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You could try backing up your data (boot from floppy and copy files to the D drive for instance), then a fresh install of ME including formatting the drive. Normally a re-install over the top doesn't sort out problems like yours, but a completely fresh install will. You could do a "quick" format, which will essentially erase the data.
If the system still crashes after the hard disk has been formatted (ie during or after windows install) you probably have a hardware problem, and my guess would be the memory. You could try removing it, and re-inserting and see if it makes any difference, or try a different memory slot, or if you can get you hands on some spare memory, try that. Hard disk errors normally manifest themselves in strange file names (ie a file called pic.jpg might show up as $%%$3pic.jpg or something), bad sectors reported by Windows / Scandisk etc. If you hard disk really is bad, Windows may not install at all, not even getting past the "checking your hardware (or whatever bit it is)" part.
If you know.....is your hard disk serial ATA or a standard IDE device? Sometimes the SATA if not corectly configured in the Bios could cause symptoms such as yours. Also do you get any Windows "blue screen of death" STOP type errors? If you do, write down the msg and code (ie 0x000035353) as they can often point to what is causing the problem.
EA
In reply to your last part:
Motherboard drivers,
Graphics card,
modem,
printer,
virus checker,
Then if you have broadband, do a Windows update.
If the system still crashes after the hard disk has been formatted (ie during or after windows install) you probably have a hardware problem, and my guess would be the memory. You could try removing it, and re-inserting and see if it makes any difference, or try a different memory slot, or if you can get you hands on some spare memory, try that. Hard disk errors normally manifest themselves in strange file names (ie a file called pic.jpg might show up as $%%$3pic.jpg or something), bad sectors reported by Windows / Scandisk etc. If you hard disk really is bad, Windows may not install at all, not even getting past the "checking your hardware (or whatever bit it is)" part.
If you know.....is your hard disk serial ATA or a standard IDE device? Sometimes the SATA if not corectly configured in the Bios could cause symptoms such as yours. Also do you get any Windows "blue screen of death" STOP type errors? If you do, write down the msg and code (ie 0x000035353) as they can often point to what is causing the problem.
EA
In reply to your last part:
Motherboard drivers,
Graphics card,
modem,
printer,
virus checker,
Then if you have broadband, do a Windows update.
Supercalifragilistic
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That sounds a bit grim.
If you do get to the format and reinstall stage it may be worth looking for a low level format tool from the drive manufacturer.
I have an IBM drive that windows consistently refused to boot from and would not accept a reinstall, even after a format using the supploied windows tools. I removed it, replaced it and moved on. Tinkering with it a month or so later I tried the diagnostics tools from the IBM site. It highlighted problems and recommended a low level format, hours of writing zeros later the drive was fine and it has worked ever since.
If you do get to the format and reinstall stage it may be worth looking for a low level format tool from the drive manufacturer.
I have an IBM drive that windows consistently refused to boot from and would not accept a reinstall, even after a format using the supploied windows tools. I removed it, replaced it and moved on. Tinkering with it a month or so later I tried the diagnostics tools from the IBM site. It highlighted problems and recommended a low level format, hours of writing zeros later the drive was fine and it has worked ever since.
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As far as I'm aware the harddrive is a standard IDE device. I only started getting the blue screen of death after the botched windows install.
I'm tempted to go for the deepest level of format I can find, I would rather be positive that the drive is completely fresh. As I'll always be wondering after the install whether any crash is due to not cleaning the drive thoroughly.
Would a memory check establish any problems with the memory or would I have to do the swapping around?
Thanks guys, I'll let you know how things go.
J.
I've just been looking at some hard drives, out of curiousity does a larger cache make a significant diference, most have a 2Mb cache but I've seen some with 8Mb. Does it really increase performance that much?
I'm tempted to go for the deepest level of format I can find, I would rather be positive that the drive is completely fresh. As I'll always be wondering after the install whether any crash is due to not cleaning the drive thoroughly.
Would a memory check establish any problems with the memory or would I have to do the swapping around?
Thanks guys, I'll let you know how things go.
J.
I've just been looking at some hard drives, out of curiousity does a larger cache make a significant diference, most have a 2Mb cache but I've seen some with 8Mb. Does it really increase performance that much?
Last edited by Cool_Hand; 29th Jun 2004 at 13:41.
The Oracle
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Jason,
If you think the Hard Drive is failing, it would not hurt to buy a new one for a fresh install. The 80Gb Western Digital (WD800JB) is a very good drive that would give your computer good performance and is not every expensive. (About $65.00 in the U.S.)
If the computer locks up while installing on the new Hard Drive then we know the problem was probably not your old drive.
With your current Hard Drive, if you want to wipe it. I suggest you use FDisk to delete the Drive's Partitions and the make a new Partition, then use Format to format the drive.
Take Care,
Richard
If you think the Hard Drive is failing, it would not hurt to buy a new one for a fresh install. The 80Gb Western Digital (WD800JB) is a very good drive that would give your computer good performance and is not every expensive. (About $65.00 in the U.S.)
If the computer locks up while installing on the new Hard Drive then we know the problem was probably not your old drive.
With your current Hard Drive, if you want to wipe it. I suggest you use FDisk to delete the Drive's Partitions and the make a new Partition, then use Format to format the drive.
Take Care,
Richard
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You can get low level diagnostic software written in machine code. You boot from the floppy and run a series of burn-in tests which thoroughly test the hardware outside of the windows environment. If you cycle the memory enough times eventually intermittent errors will show up in the tests. Likewise the hard disk will show any errors. (http://www.uxd.com/qtpro.shtml).
BUT memory faults are bloody difficult to diagnose. My gut feeling is that if you system has been running ok un touched, then the memory is probably ok. What exactly did the DOS hard disk failure warning actually say? It could be the disk is on the way out.........
Before you go ahead and fork out money on new hardware, I'd stick the windows disk in, boot from the CD and re-install Windows. When it asks which partition choose your existing C drive, and format as a normal format. Any errors on the drive will show up, and all data will be removed. Once windows has installed, if your problems are gone, then its a Windows thing (ME is terrible for symptoms like yours).
The WD 80GB hard disks, 7200RPM, 8MB cache run about £45 in the UK and are excellent, I use them all the time.
Good luck!
BUT memory faults are bloody difficult to diagnose. My gut feeling is that if you system has been running ok un touched, then the memory is probably ok. What exactly did the DOS hard disk failure warning actually say? It could be the disk is on the way out.........
Before you go ahead and fork out money on new hardware, I'd stick the windows disk in, boot from the CD and re-install Windows. When it asks which partition choose your existing C drive, and format as a normal format. Any errors on the drive will show up, and all data will be removed. Once windows has installed, if your problems are gone, then its a Windows thing (ME is terrible for symptoms like yours).
The WD 80GB hard disks, 7200RPM, 8MB cache run about £45 in the UK and are excellent, I use them all the time.
Good luck!
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EnglishAl
The DOS warning appeared just after the searching IDE devices and said:
Hard drive failure is imminent, recommend back up all data.
I must say I am still dubious that it is the hard drive, just before I buy a new drive I'll see if I can disconnect C: and install windows on D:, then run all of the diagnostics suggested above to thoroughly check both hard drives and memory etc.
Cheers,
J.
The DOS warning appeared just after the searching IDE devices and said:
Hard drive failure is imminent, recommend back up all data.
I must say I am still dubious that it is the hard drive, just before I buy a new drive I'll see if I can disconnect C: and install windows on D:, then run all of the diagnostics suggested above to thoroughly check both hard drives and memory etc.
Cheers,
J.
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Jason,
How many Hard Drives do you have in your computer? Do give us the specs on each. (Make and Model would really help along with which drive has the OS in it.)
If you have more than one drive, it could be your secondary drive failing, etc.
Take Care,
Richard
How many Hard Drives do you have in your computer? Do give us the specs on each. (Make and Model would really help along with which drive has the OS in it.)
If you have more than one drive, it could be your secondary drive failing, etc.
Take Care,
Richard
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I have just the 2, a 20Gb one (C: ) and a 4Gb one (D: ) I'll have a look at all of the data, makes, models etc. tonight and if I can get some form of vaguely working machine I'll post the information tonight otherwise I'll post tomorrow.
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Jason,
Since you have a pair of old drives, then lets stop messing around, get a Western Digital WD800JB Hard Drive and do a fresh install of WinME. (Norton Ghost is another option if you do not want to do a fresh install.)
Windows is all about Disk Access, and the faster the drive, the better the performance of Windows.
Take Care,
Richard
P.S. I just went back to your original post which had your specs listed. If you wanted, you could easily upgrade to WinXP if you install the WD800JB.
Since you have a pair of old drives, then lets stop messing around, get a Western Digital WD800JB Hard Drive and do a fresh install of WinME. (Norton Ghost is another option if you do not want to do a fresh install.)
Windows is all about Disk Access, and the faster the drive, the better the performance of Windows.
Take Care,
Richard
P.S. I just went back to your original post which had your specs listed. If you wanted, you could easily upgrade to WinXP if you install the WD800JB.