Installing New OS/Reformatting Hard Drive
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Installing New OS/Reformatting Hard Drive
I'm currently running a system installed with Win98SE, W2k and XP. As I never use the first two OS's any more I'm looking to reformat the partitions on which they're stored to free up more disk space.
My hard drives are partitioned as follows:
Drive 1 (20gb):
C: Win98SE - Primary FAT32 Partition
D: W2K - Extended (Logical) NTFS Partition
E: XP Home ed - Extended (Logical) NTFS Partition
F: Misc Programs - Extended (Logical) FAT32 Partition
Drive 2 (120gb):
I: Games - NTFS
J: Music - NTFS
K: Movies - NTFS
Should I/can I reformat C&D and somehow merge them into E? Or should I reformat C&D, re-install XP, then delete the XP OS on drive E? One of the possible benefits of reformatting my E drive is that it's very defragmented - too much for XP defrag or Diskeeper 8 to deal with.
I have Partition Magic which may or may not be helpful.
Any thoughts/guidelines would be appreciated.
Swift
My hard drives are partitioned as follows:
Drive 1 (20gb):
C: Win98SE - Primary FAT32 Partition
D: W2K - Extended (Logical) NTFS Partition
E: XP Home ed - Extended (Logical) NTFS Partition
F: Misc Programs - Extended (Logical) FAT32 Partition
Drive 2 (120gb):
I: Games - NTFS
J: Music - NTFS
K: Movies - NTFS
Should I/can I reformat C&D and somehow merge them into E? Or should I reformat C&D, re-install XP, then delete the XP OS on drive E? One of the possible benefits of reformatting my E drive is that it's very defragmented - too much for XP defrag or Diskeeper 8 to deal with.
I have Partition Magic which may or may not be helpful.
Any thoughts/guidelines would be appreciated.
Swift
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I will await an answer from Richard (Naples) or Orac or fobotsco with interest, because I have a similar proposal.
Ordinarily I would say that you can remove the first two partitions with a suitable prog such as Partition Magic. What I am not sure about is what effect having mixed partition types has on this - eg your fat32 and NTFS mixture. I am in the same boat.
Were you multi-booting? If the gurus say you are able to do this then you may need to re-configure your MBR. I don't know what capabilities Partition Magic has in that regard.
There is an excellent partition and boot manager available here. It is called BootIT NG. It also does disk images. Its shareware, fully functional for 30 days and is cheap to buy if you like it.
While its interface is not as glitzy as PM's and you need to be a bit tekky to follow the manual, it's extremely powerful. I suggest you download it, play a bit with the menus to get the feel of it and the manual without actually comitting to any changes on your disk and if you like it you might find it does what you want it to do. I think it has the power to deal with the MBR the way you might need it to. However, I'm not sure it (or any partition utility) can deal with mixed partition types (ie, merge two or more of different types into one) without losing data.
As I say, wait for one of the experts on that.
Cheers
AA
Ordinarily I would say that you can remove the first two partitions with a suitable prog such as Partition Magic. What I am not sure about is what effect having mixed partition types has on this - eg your fat32 and NTFS mixture. I am in the same boat.
Were you multi-booting? If the gurus say you are able to do this then you may need to re-configure your MBR. I don't know what capabilities Partition Magic has in that regard.
There is an excellent partition and boot manager available here. It is called BootIT NG. It also does disk images. Its shareware, fully functional for 30 days and is cheap to buy if you like it.
While its interface is not as glitzy as PM's and you need to be a bit tekky to follow the manual, it's extremely powerful. I suggest you download it, play a bit with the menus to get the feel of it and the manual without actually comitting to any changes on your disk and if you like it you might find it does what you want it to do. I think it has the power to deal with the MBR the way you might need it to. However, I'm not sure it (or any partition utility) can deal with mixed partition types (ie, merge two or more of different types into one) without losing data.
As I say, wait for one of the experts on that.
Cheers
AA
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Who, me? 
Should work with the help of a Partition Manager. I'm a fan of PartitionMagic (PM) and would certainly have a go.
But, the multi-boot information is all in the root of the C: drive and you must start by copying it to the root of the future boot partition. There'll be some nonsense in the Boot.ini, but you can tidy that up later.
You're going to have to do this with the Drive 1 removed and temporarily installed as a slave of another PC running PM. (just leave it hanging on the ribbon and power cables.) The drive letters will change, of course, but that shouldn't matter.
After you have copied the essential boot files from (using old letters) C: to E:, you can delete the old C: and D: partitions. Don't worry about the drive letters at this stage. The temporary host PC is running the show.
Copy the old E: to the beginning of the old Disk 1. Make it primary. And make it active. I forgot that step once and had to repeat the removal and re-installation of the Disk. The old E: partition will automatically cease to be active (only one allowed per Disk). By copying the old E: instead of moving it you are keeping a life-line.
Leave out Disk 2 while you reinstall Disk 1 in its original host. Power up and fingers crossed. There'll be a new C: and what was F: will now be D:.
When Disk 1 is back in its host machine you can fiddle with the unpartitioned space to your heart's content. When you're happy, re-insert the old Disk 2.
There's trouble brewing for any links from the old Disk 1 partitions to the old Disk 2 partitions unless you're canny and create new D: and E: partitions just to keep the drive letters the same.
I've never like merging partitions; the drive letter cross-reference links that PM changes in programs and registries are never quite right.
Oh, the files you want to see in the new Boot directory are:
Boot.ini (keep a backup and edit out the defunct boot partitions).
ntldr (my XP pro is 229KB)
ntdetect.com (my XP pro is 47KB)
I'll send you these if you need me to.
Whe you've got space on Disk 1, you should be able to use PM to enlarge the new C: to give yourself enough space for defrag to work.
Good Luck.
Should work with the help of a Partition Manager. I'm a fan of PartitionMagic (PM) and would certainly have a go.
But, the multi-boot information is all in the root of the C: drive and you must start by copying it to the root of the future boot partition. There'll be some nonsense in the Boot.ini, but you can tidy that up later.
You're going to have to do this with the Drive 1 removed and temporarily installed as a slave of another PC running PM. (just leave it hanging on the ribbon and power cables.) The drive letters will change, of course, but that shouldn't matter.
After you have copied the essential boot files from (using old letters) C: to E:, you can delete the old C: and D: partitions. Don't worry about the drive letters at this stage. The temporary host PC is running the show.
Copy the old E: to the beginning of the old Disk 1. Make it primary. And make it active. I forgot that step once and had to repeat the removal and re-installation of the Disk. The old E: partition will automatically cease to be active (only one allowed per Disk). By copying the old E: instead of moving it you are keeping a life-line.
Leave out Disk 2 while you reinstall Disk 1 in its original host. Power up and fingers crossed. There'll be a new C: and what was F: will now be D:.
When Disk 1 is back in its host machine you can fiddle with the unpartitioned space to your heart's content. When you're happy, re-insert the old Disk 2.
There's trouble brewing for any links from the old Disk 1 partitions to the old Disk 2 partitions unless you're canny and create new D: and E: partitions just to keep the drive letters the same.
I've never like merging partitions; the drive letter cross-reference links that PM changes in programs and registries are never quite right.
Oh, the files you want to see in the new Boot directory are:
Boot.ini (keep a backup and edit out the defunct boot partitions).
ntldr (my XP pro is 229KB)
ntdetect.com (my XP pro is 47KB)
I'll send you these if you need me to.
Whe you've got space on Disk 1, you should be able to use PM to enlarge the new C: to give yourself enough space for defrag to work.
Good Luck.
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Yes.
I've given ORAC's excellent link a good read and it's complex with many ifs and buts and only does a part of what you want. I've never attempted anything like that.
If you're going to use that principle, then read, read, and re-read it. As Ausatco said there are potential difficulties with trying to work on an NTFS partition with a FAT32 operating system that you would have if you used an emergency boot disk from Win98SE.
Your partitions don't change in size or position. They are just re-assigned.
However, PM can be run from DOS and you can create PM emergency disks that may make it possible to do this from within the PC. But I wouldn't attempt it.
If you specify PM to change Boot partitions, they have to be done during a re-boot. (Boot-time). I hate the cliff-hanger waiting to see if the beast is going to make the changes or crash. And if there's a power outage during the process, well...
There's an alternative to a second PC.
1. Use PM on the existing setup to create an empty partition at the beginning of Disk 2.
2. Swap the drives over (jumpers?)
3. Install a skeleton Win 2000 in the new space.
4. Install PM.
Now you can work on the old Disk 1 safely.
When done, swap them back again.
I've given ORAC's excellent link a good read and it's complex with many ifs and buts and only does a part of what you want. I've never attempted anything like that.
If you're going to use that principle, then read, read, and re-read it. As Ausatco said there are potential difficulties with trying to work on an NTFS partition with a FAT32 operating system that you would have if you used an emergency boot disk from Win98SE.
Your partitions don't change in size or position. They are just re-assigned.
However, PM can be run from DOS and you can create PM emergency disks that may make it possible to do this from within the PC. But I wouldn't attempt it.
If you specify PM to change Boot partitions, they have to be done during a re-boot. (Boot-time). I hate the cliff-hanger waiting to see if the beast is going to make the changes or crash. And if there's a power outage during the process, well...
There's an alternative to a second PC.
1. Use PM on the existing setup to create an empty partition at the beginning of Disk 2.
2. Swap the drives over (jumpers?)
3. Install a skeleton Win 2000 in the new space.
4. Install PM.
Now you can work on the old Disk 1 safely.
When done, swap them back again.
Last edited by fobotcso; 14th Sep 2003 at 01:09.
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I guess I showed up a little late for this thread. Hey everyone. How you are all enjoying your weekend.
It looks like just about everything has been covered. There is just one question I would like to ask. What are the specs on the two hard drives?
Reason I ask is because Windows is all about Disk Access. You want your fastest drive to be the one with the OS on it. I was wondering how old the 20Gb drive is. If one of the drives is a 7200rpm drive with an 8Mb Cache on it, that would be the drive to run your OS on.
With WinXP it is very easy to install WinXP on top of itself without losing all the data on the drive. It really eliminates the need for the second Hard Drive if you are worried about having to format and reinstall like we used to always have to do with Win9x.
Take Care,
Richard
It looks like just about everything has been covered. There is just one question I would like to ask. What are the specs on the two hard drives?
Reason I ask is because Windows is all about Disk Access. You want your fastest drive to be the one with the OS on it. I was wondering how old the 20Gb drive is. If one of the drives is a 7200rpm drive with an 8Mb Cache on it, that would be the drive to run your OS on.
With WinXP it is very easy to install WinXP on top of itself without losing all the data on the drive. It really eliminates the need for the second Hard Drive if you are worried about having to format and reinstall like we used to always have to do with Win9x.
Take Care,
Richard
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Agree with Richard about the OS ideally being on the big fast drive. Should have said it myself.
But if, for other reasons, you have to put the OS onto the smaller older drive, at least you can set the pagefile.sys to be mostly on the bigger, faster drive.
Richard, we're having a stunning late summer/early autumn here in UK and having a great time. Got to go 250 miles to a wedding tomorrow so the fobotcso keyboard will be quiet for a while. With that, both my soccer teams won and its the last night of the Prom Concerts with links from London, Glasgow and Belfast and countless numbers singing together.
Must be doing something right.
I see you're online. Check out the BBC web site and catch the prom concert.
BBC Radio 3
Or the streaming TV
But if, for other reasons, you have to put the OS onto the smaller older drive, at least you can set the pagefile.sys to be mostly on the bigger, faster drive.
Richard, we're having a stunning late summer/early autumn here in UK and having a great time. Got to go 250 miles to a wedding tomorrow so the fobotcso keyboard will be quiet for a while. With that, both my soccer teams won and its the last night of the Prom Concerts with links from London, Glasgow and Belfast and countless numbers singing together.
Must be doing something right.I see you're online. Check out the BBC web site and catch the prom concert.
BBC Radio 3
Or the streaming TV
Last edited by fobotcso; 14th Sep 2003 at 05:32.
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Thanks for the replies guys! Interesting point about using the bigger hard drive for the OS. My 20gb drive is a 3 year old Western Digital 7200rpm with a 2MB buffer, while the 120gb drive is 9 months old Western Digital 7200rpm 8MB buffer.
I guess the logic behind putting the OS and program files on the smaller drive is that I could keep the larger one for things like scenery files for flight sim, music and movies (I use Adobe Premier for editing our home camcorder footage). My perception (probably wrong) is that the system would run faster if this sort of data was being accessed on independent drives rather than just one.
If I installed XP on the larger drive could I then just uninstall/delete the old OS's (98, W2k and XP) on the smaller drive. Would I still have to retain the 20gb drive as a C: drive as this would have my boot.ini file on?
Thanks
Swift
I guess the logic behind putting the OS and program files on the smaller drive is that I could keep the larger one for things like scenery files for flight sim, music and movies (I use Adobe Premier for editing our home camcorder footage). My perception (probably wrong) is that the system would run faster if this sort of data was being accessed on independent drives rather than just one.
If I installed XP on the larger drive could I then just uninstall/delete the old OS's (98, W2k and XP) on the smaller drive. Would I still have to retain the 20gb drive as a C: drive as this would have my boot.ini file on?
Thanks
Swift
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Swift,
If you are going to do the install on the 120Gb Drive, just make the 120Gb Drive the Primary Master. Then I would make your Optical Drive the Secondary Master. After completing the install just add the additional drives so you get the Drive Letters you want. If you do it in that order you get 120Gb as C, Optical as D, and the 20Gb as E.
After you finish the install on the 120Gb drive you can go into the 20GB drive and delete all the windows directories. If you want, you can convert the FAT32 Partitions to NTFS.
As a final note, make sure you do not put Optical Drives on the same ribbon as your Hard Drives. The IDE Controller will default to the slowest drive interface on the controller. If you put an ATA-100 Hard Drive with an ATA-33 Optical Drive on the same ribbon, you will force the ATA-100 Hard Drive to run at ATA-33. (Newer motherboards can run at dual speeds on the same IDE Controller, but to be on the safe side, just keep Optical Drives on different ribbons than Hard Drives.)
Take Care,
Richard
If you are going to do the install on the 120Gb Drive, just make the 120Gb Drive the Primary Master. Then I would make your Optical Drive the Secondary Master. After completing the install just add the additional drives so you get the Drive Letters you want. If you do it in that order you get 120Gb as C, Optical as D, and the 20Gb as E.
After you finish the install on the 120Gb drive you can go into the 20GB drive and delete all the windows directories. If you want, you can convert the FAT32 Partitions to NTFS.
As a final note, make sure you do not put Optical Drives on the same ribbon as your Hard Drives. The IDE Controller will default to the slowest drive interface on the controller. If you put an ATA-100 Hard Drive with an ATA-33 Optical Drive on the same ribbon, you will force the ATA-100 Hard Drive to run at ATA-33. (Newer motherboards can run at dual speeds on the same IDE Controller, but to be on the safe side, just keep Optical Drives on different ribbons than Hard Drives.)
Take Care,
Richard
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Richard,
Thanks for your comments, seems like the way to go.
To make the 120gb drive the primary master presumably I can just alter the jumpers on the back or move it to the primary drive position - the drives are currently in cable-select mode. Should I then physically remove the 20gb drive and then ensure that the computer will boot from the optical drive (with XP CD-ROM)?
Will I run into problems with XP product activation or will XP recognise enough of my system for this not to be a problem?
Thanks
Phil
Thanks for your comments, seems like the way to go.
To make the 120gb drive the primary master presumably I can just alter the jumpers on the back or move it to the primary drive position - the drives are currently in cable-select mode. Should I then physically remove the 20gb drive and then ensure that the computer will boot from the optical drive (with XP CD-ROM)?
Will I run into problems with XP product activation or will XP recognise enough of my system for this not to be a problem?
Thanks
Phil
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Phil,
You can leave the WD 120Gb Drive as Cable Select and just put it on the end of the Ribbon. Leave the 20Gb in your comp, just remove the ribbon from the back of the drive. Then you should be all set for the install.
As for Windows Product Activation, the hardware checked is as follows: Serial number of system volume; NIC MAC address; CDROM; graphics adapter; CPU; hard drive; SCSI adapter; IDE controller; processor model; RAM size. There's also a check to see if the hardware is dockable or not.
You're only likely to have to repeat the activation process and get a new unlock key if you change more than three of these components or do a new install, which will be the case this time. Since most of your hardware is still intact, there should be no trouble with the activation. If you call Microsoft on the phone you can tell them you changed your hard drive.
Take Care,
Richard
P.S. Here is the Inside Windows Product Activation details.
You can leave the WD 120Gb Drive as Cable Select and just put it on the end of the Ribbon. Leave the 20Gb in your comp, just remove the ribbon from the back of the drive. Then you should be all set for the install.
As for Windows Product Activation, the hardware checked is as follows: Serial number of system volume; NIC MAC address; CDROM; graphics adapter; CPU; hard drive; SCSI adapter; IDE controller; processor model; RAM size. There's also a check to see if the hardware is dockable or not.
You're only likely to have to repeat the activation process and get a new unlock key if you change more than three of these components or do a new install, which will be the case this time. Since most of your hardware is still intact, there should be no trouble with the activation. If you call Microsoft on the phone you can tell them you changed your hard drive.
Take Care,
Richard
P.S. Here is the Inside Windows Product Activation details.
