LAN Peru,Chile, Argentina
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Just interviewed with LAN last week. myself and several others did the whole process in a week here in Florida. Some did the sim, some didn't. the ones that didn't (myself included) were told to wait to do the sim in Peru. The tests were pretty straight forward. ATP, IFR (Gleim or ASA), Psicotecnica (easy), psychological eval, HR and Technical questions. Does anyone else have any info about a recent hiring process with LAN. how long does it take for LAN to look into the results of any test.
Will they let you know if you pass or failed? Is there a right or wrong answer in the HR interview. what about the Tech. questions?
Any up-to-date info would be appreciated.
Will they let you know if you pass or failed? Is there a right or wrong answer in the HR interview. what about the Tech. questions?
Any up-to-date info would be appreciated.
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I think it would be very difficult to LAN to overtake TAM Long haul ops from brazil. To fly a PT- registerd aircraft you need to be a brazilean national. End of story for that rumor.
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Who said that LAN would fly PT Registered aircraft...? 
As an owner of an airline (51% or more) gives you the right to "lease" out routes. So you take a profitable route and let CC registered aircraft do the work at a lower cost increasing profit margins... Thats what we call "5th freedom right" in the airline business.
Of course those other crews will then not be needed and that's were the fear of lay-offs come.
Now, to fly domestic ("Cabotage") is a whole different ball-game. In most S. American countries you need a validated license and have the right to work in that country.
But I did not know that you are required to be a "citizen" of Brazil to fly a PT- registered aircraft. A LOA from the DGAC in Brazil should do. The only country I know of that does not accept foreigners flying country-registered aircraft is Mexico, and there you don not just have to be a citizen, by law you are required to be born in Mexican Territory. I saw that a few companies there dry-lease N- registered aircraft for that purpose...
Happy New Year everyone...
Eagle
As an owner of an airline (51% or more) gives you the right to "lease" out routes. So you take a profitable route and let CC registered aircraft do the work at a lower cost increasing profit margins... Thats what we call "5th freedom right" in the airline business.
Of course those other crews will then not be needed and that's were the fear of lay-offs come.
Now, to fly domestic ("Cabotage") is a whole different ball-game. In most S. American countries you need a validated license and have the right to work in that country.
But I did not know that you are required to be a "citizen" of Brazil to fly a PT- registered aircraft. A LOA from the DGAC in Brazil should do. The only country I know of that does not accept foreigners flying country-registered aircraft is Mexico, and there you don not just have to be a citizen, by law you are required to be born in Mexican Territory. I saw that a few companies there dry-lease N- registered aircraft for that purpose...
Happy New Year everyone...
Eagle
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first you need to own the 51% of that airline. The LAN-TAM merge is still subject to approval. LAN does not have enough planes to take over TAM Long range operations. And does not have any planes on order that will allow to take over TAM ops. TAM has more than 20 Long Haul planes and lots of orders. They can order planes but it takes time to receive those planes. And yes, to fly PT aircraft you need to be a citizen in Brazil. You can fly short term contracts. Argentina is also a country were you need to be citizen to fly LV aircraft. You can fly short term contracts as a foreign pilot while you train local pilots. But not as a career. In Chile and Peru you can fly as an expat. No problem at all. Laws allow this to happen. Panama Also. I dont know in Colombia if you can.
Chile has some 5th right on Brazil routes but the Brazilian government will not allow this to happen. A Chilean company overtaking Long Haul operations of TAM airlines, the main Brazilian company today, with foreign crews flying for 2 cents while local Brazilian crews lost their JOB????? Yeah, right. That's why Unions exists. Sorry guys. Sit back, relax and enjoy your flight.
Chile has some 5th right on Brazil routes but the Brazilian government will not allow this to happen. A Chilean company overtaking Long Haul operations of TAM airlines, the main Brazilian company today, with foreign crews flying for 2 cents while local Brazilian crews lost their JOB????? Yeah, right. That's why Unions exists. Sorry guys. Sit back, relax and enjoy your flight.
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LAN does not have enough planes to take over TAM Long range operations. And does not have any planes on order that will allow to take over TAM ops.
What about the 32 B787 Lan's order?
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Thanks for the backup 777...
7Q, sorry if I touched a sore nerve there, but I spoke to TAM Crews, and yes, they are afraid... Laws change, Union in, Union out, Money talks, Bull**** walks...
The reason why LAN ARG is not expanding is obvious, the national Pilots Union, and they don't care that they have hundreds of Argentinian Pilots on the street without a job, that selfish they are to protect their "market". So LAN pulled the big plug for the time being, so they will stay what they are, a joke, bad investment, you name it what you want...
The merger is approved, if you like it or not, but it's official:
LatAm Giant Is Born As TAM, LAN Merge
LAN-TAM Merger: U.S. Carriers Sweat The Fate of Alliance Partners | BNET
LAN would not hold 51%, but 73% of TAM's stock, even though non-Brazilians are not allowed to hold more than 20% of a company... (hmm, laws are funny things aren't they..?? So how did Enrique do that?!?)
I never wrote that LAN will take over the entire Long Range Ops of TAM. But be sure that LAN will take a hefty bite out of the Cake they bought, US$ 2.7 Billion (thats a lot of 0's if you ask me...!) With 73% LAN has "Operational Control", so Upper- and mid-level managers are already handing in their resignation to be replaced by Personnel in which LAN has confidence. And the easiest bite will come out of the Long Haul Ops sector...
Even if Brazilian Crews would not loose their jobs, I heard they are overpaid and under worked, so some of them might leave by them self as there will be some belt-tightening in every sector...
TAM was not in the best of the liquid sector when LAN bought them, so, lets see what the new "Presidenta do Brazil" will do about it, but rest assure, if the deal were to go sour, it would have HUGE consequences for TAM and the commercial aviation sector in Brazil, not just for the confidence in the trading system, but financially, so there are your lay-offs....
And yes, thank you, I am sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying the flight and the view
Slds
Eagle
7Q, sorry if I touched a sore nerve there, but I spoke to TAM Crews, and yes, they are afraid... Laws change, Union in, Union out, Money talks, Bull**** walks...
The reason why LAN ARG is not expanding is obvious, the national Pilots Union, and they don't care that they have hundreds of Argentinian Pilots on the street without a job, that selfish they are to protect their "market". So LAN pulled the big plug for the time being, so they will stay what they are, a joke, bad investment, you name it what you want...
The merger is approved, if you like it or not, but it's official:
LatAm Giant Is Born As TAM, LAN Merge
LAN-TAM Merger: U.S. Carriers Sweat The Fate of Alliance Partners | BNET
LAN would not hold 51%, but 73% of TAM's stock, even though non-Brazilians are not allowed to hold more than 20% of a company... (hmm, laws are funny things aren't they..?? So how did Enrique do that?!?)
I never wrote that LAN will take over the entire Long Range Ops of TAM. But be sure that LAN will take a hefty bite out of the Cake they bought, US$ 2.7 Billion (thats a lot of 0's if you ask me...!) With 73% LAN has "Operational Control", so Upper- and mid-level managers are already handing in their resignation to be replaced by Personnel in which LAN has confidence. And the easiest bite will come out of the Long Haul Ops sector...
Even if Brazilian Crews would not loose their jobs, I heard they are overpaid and under worked, so some of them might leave by them self as there will be some belt-tightening in every sector...
TAM was not in the best of the liquid sector when LAN bought them, so, lets see what the new "Presidenta do Brazil" will do about it, but rest assure, if the deal were to go sour, it would have HUGE consequences for TAM and the commercial aviation sector in Brazil, not just for the confidence in the trading system, but financially, so there are your lay-offs....
And yes, thank you, I am sitting back, relaxing, and enjoying the flight and the view
Slds
Eagle
Last edited by EagleA25; 3rd Jan 2011 at 21:02. Reason: Typo's... sorry, not my primary language here
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Eagle25, in Argentina there are not hundreds of pilots without jobs. Most airlines and small charter outfits are hiring pilots every month.
LAN Argentina is not expanding because Argentinean market right now is not as attractive as Peru or Colombia. Domestic travel in Argentina is not very attractive in terms of yields. And yes, unions are strong here. LAN is not uses to deal with strong unions. But thanks to strong Unions airlines can not make you fly 6 days on 1 day off.
LAN Argentina is not expanding because Argentinean market right now is not as attractive as Peru or Colombia. Domestic travel in Argentina is not very attractive in terms of yields. And yes, unions are strong here. LAN is not uses to deal with strong unions. But thanks to strong Unions airlines can not make you fly 6 days on 1 day off.
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Argentinean market is not expanding and is not attractive basically because:
-There is no incentive policies from the State towards aviation (i.e. promoting the open skies policy), even worst…the Government dictates the max prices that can be established by the airline companies.
-The government promotes a totally unfair competition trough Aerolineas Argentinas. (pls don’t forget that the state owned company financial status is in red and the government still insists to put money in).
- Unions are too rigid and inflexible that generally this inhibits the private investment.
There is no complete certainty whether the 787s are going to totally substitute the 767 fleet or if they are going to just be added to increase the capacity of the long haul fleet. However, if in the future LAN management becomes conscious that due to the increasing demand it’s not necessary to replace the 767, personally think that not any of them will be swapped hence having LAN more than enough capacity to take over Tam’s operation.
-There is no incentive policies from the State towards aviation (i.e. promoting the open skies policy), even worst…the Government dictates the max prices that can be established by the airline companies.
-The government promotes a totally unfair competition trough Aerolineas Argentinas. (pls don’t forget that the state owned company financial status is in red and the government still insists to put money in).
- Unions are too rigid and inflexible that generally this inhibits the private investment.
There is no complete certainty whether the 787s are going to totally substitute the 767 fleet or if they are going to just be added to increase the capacity of the long haul fleet. However, if in the future LAN management becomes conscious that due to the increasing demand it’s not necessary to replace the 767, personally think that not any of them will be swapped hence having LAN more than enough capacity to take over Tam’s operation.
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chileno777, you are making a mistake here. Domestic Fares are ruled by the gob. But international Fares are Free so each company can rules their own fares.
And LAN Argentina have been approved to fly many international routes science 2006, Madrid, Rome, mexico, JFK, etc, almost 17 international routes which the company can fly when they want. The problem is that some of those routes have very low yields and strong competitors. Madrid Has Aerolineas and Iberia (casually a Oneworld company) with 4 flights a day, and Air Europa with 1 flight a day (Star alliance company and Aerolineas starting to certificate for that alliance). Lets say, LAN Argentina wants to fly to Madrid they can fly next month and with the fares they want. So the open sky is not a really big problem.
The only issue for LAN in Argentina is they can rotate the aircraft like in Peru or Chile. And that should not be a problem as 99% of the world, even countries where they are experts in open sky policies don't allow that rotation.
On the routes from Argentina to Brazil the new TAM-LAN merge makes the need for LAN Argentina to fly to Brazil useless. The other Argentinean markets like Chile and Peru are both already well served by other group companies like LAN Chile and LAN Peru. So no real expansion on those markets. And on the Argentina-Chile market there is a free frequency agreement, so LAN Chile and LAN Argentina can expand their frequencies as they want.
Unions are rigid? Yes, but if you are a big company you need to start to deal with unions. Argentina is the first place were unions are strong. They will learn how to deal with unions. You cant be a big airline and pretend your crews to fly 6 days on, 1 off for peanuts.
As you see most of Argentinean - South America market was already served by LAN group Before LAN Argentina start their ops. So to be honest the need for LAN Argentina to expand on those markets are pointless. Maby many people overestimates the Argentinean market for LAN.
And LAN Argentina have been approved to fly many international routes science 2006, Madrid, Rome, mexico, JFK, etc, almost 17 international routes which the company can fly when they want. The problem is that some of those routes have very low yields and strong competitors. Madrid Has Aerolineas and Iberia (casually a Oneworld company) with 4 flights a day, and Air Europa with 1 flight a day (Star alliance company and Aerolineas starting to certificate for that alliance). Lets say, LAN Argentina wants to fly to Madrid they can fly next month and with the fares they want. So the open sky is not a really big problem.
The only issue for LAN in Argentina is they can rotate the aircraft like in Peru or Chile. And that should not be a problem as 99% of the world, even countries where they are experts in open sky policies don't allow that rotation.
On the routes from Argentina to Brazil the new TAM-LAN merge makes the need for LAN Argentina to fly to Brazil useless. The other Argentinean markets like Chile and Peru are both already well served by other group companies like LAN Chile and LAN Peru. So no real expansion on those markets. And on the Argentina-Chile market there is a free frequency agreement, so LAN Chile and LAN Argentina can expand their frequencies as they want.
Unions are rigid? Yes, but if you are a big company you need to start to deal with unions. Argentina is the first place were unions are strong. They will learn how to deal with unions. You cant be a big airline and pretend your crews to fly 6 days on, 1 off for peanuts.
As you see most of Argentinean - South America market was already served by LAN group Before LAN Argentina start their ops. So to be honest the need for LAN Argentina to expand on those markets are pointless. Maby many people overestimates the Argentinean market for LAN.
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I love heated discussions like this one...
Now, just as 777 said, replacing the 767's depends on future demands and none of my contacts mentioned a replacement program. The 767 is known to be the work horse of the LAN fleet, I have my doubts it will be replace anytime soon.
I kinda disagree with 7Q on a few points: The gob's neither in Brazil nor in Argentina limit nor controls the regional nor national fares. Additionally, on both sides, in ARG and in BRA, the domestic market is huge and there is still a very big and growing demand in S. America in general as all of the countries were not hit as hard as Europe or us in N. America by the financial crisis. One sector particularly is standing out for its expansion, the Cargo Sector.
The "rotation" of airplanes, the use of foreign registered aircraft in domestic or flag operations is what I assume you refer to, should not be an issue. You require another aircraft for your Ops, you certify it within a week or 10 days tops. Does it affect "flexibility", it might, but if the demand is there, self-loading-cargo will fly when the plane leaves, of course you tailor it so it is more comfortable for them. And as it is not s well kept secret to the aviation world, LAN isn't that much after PAX, but Cargo is the cream for the pie here. So I am pretty sure that there are a lot more things going on in the background that we don't even know about when it comes to the business end of the aviation industry and mergers associated with it.
Personally, I see the real problem why LAN Argentina not expanding is that it just became to expensive for LAN. And yes, there are still hundereds of Pilots in Argentina on the street, and yes, companies are picking some up, but most of them are younger, less experienced aviators for FO jobs. You might wanna ask some Aerolineas Caps about, I chatted with one a few days ago and he listed at least 55 Capts between the age of 45 to 60 he personally knew who do things like waiter tables or taxi driver in Bueno Aires (mind you, a few years back on an EZE trip I was sitting in the back of a cab talking to my FO about flying. At a stop light the cabbi turns around and asks me if we're pilots, turns out he was the ex-fleet chief of don't-remember-which in Aerolineas Argentinas, so much for that).
Now, concerning the peanuts and Unions, face reality, we've become button pushers and lazy bums. Flying a Jet 20 Years ago, when I was young and sexy (Now I'm just not young anymore
) we used to get paid double of what we make today, and yes, we had more "rest time". But if you don't like your reality, change it, that means, do something else like supervise construction, manage in the the food industry, open a bar or if you wanna make the big bucks flying, I recommend India and China. Living and Working conditions suck, but hey, it's US$15000.00 in your pocket each month... Otherwise, take what you have and suck it up...
If I am right for who you are, you might know yourself how long it took for you to get into the right seat of a jet airliner, now they are practically giving the seat away in Corn Flakes Boxes to guys who a) don't care about flying and only the paycheck and b) have an attitude about it. And yes, there should be a pay raise for the work that is done down there to attract more qualified personnel. That won't happen anytime soon, so this will go bad some day, believe me. I just hope no one on board is who I know so I can skip out on going to a funeral...
Why would LAN ARG only fly to Brazil? It's a bigger world out there,you know, and there are two directions that still need to be explored, and LAN knows it: The eastern Pacific and (ta-daaaa) Southern Africa. That is were my bet with LAN Argentina comes into play...
Well, so much for now... gotta get my bags ready for my trip to Vancouver, it's cold up there...
Happy Landings...
Now, just as 777 said, replacing the 767's depends on future demands and none of my contacts mentioned a replacement program. The 767 is known to be the work horse of the LAN fleet, I have my doubts it will be replace anytime soon.
I kinda disagree with 7Q on a few points: The gob's neither in Brazil nor in Argentina limit nor controls the regional nor national fares. Additionally, on both sides, in ARG and in BRA, the domestic market is huge and there is still a very big and growing demand in S. America in general as all of the countries were not hit as hard as Europe or us in N. America by the financial crisis. One sector particularly is standing out for its expansion, the Cargo Sector.
The "rotation" of airplanes, the use of foreign registered aircraft in domestic or flag operations is what I assume you refer to, should not be an issue. You require another aircraft for your Ops, you certify it within a week or 10 days tops. Does it affect "flexibility", it might, but if the demand is there, self-loading-cargo will fly when the plane leaves, of course you tailor it so it is more comfortable for them. And as it is not s well kept secret to the aviation world, LAN isn't that much after PAX, but Cargo is the cream for the pie here. So I am pretty sure that there are a lot more things going on in the background that we don't even know about when it comes to the business end of the aviation industry and mergers associated with it.
Personally, I see the real problem why LAN Argentina not expanding is that it just became to expensive for LAN. And yes, there are still hundereds of Pilots in Argentina on the street, and yes, companies are picking some up, but most of them are younger, less experienced aviators for FO jobs. You might wanna ask some Aerolineas Caps about, I chatted with one a few days ago and he listed at least 55 Capts between the age of 45 to 60 he personally knew who do things like waiter tables or taxi driver in Bueno Aires (mind you, a few years back on an EZE trip I was sitting in the back of a cab talking to my FO about flying. At a stop light the cabbi turns around and asks me if we're pilots, turns out he was the ex-fleet chief of don't-remember-which in Aerolineas Argentinas, so much for that).
Now, concerning the peanuts and Unions, face reality, we've become button pushers and lazy bums. Flying a Jet 20 Years ago, when I was young and sexy (Now I'm just not young anymore
) we used to get paid double of what we make today, and yes, we had more "rest time". But if you don't like your reality, change it, that means, do something else like supervise construction, manage in the the food industry, open a bar or if you wanna make the big bucks flying, I recommend India and China. Living and Working conditions suck, but hey, it's US$15000.00 in your pocket each month... Otherwise, take what you have and suck it up...If I am right for who you are, you might know yourself how long it took for you to get into the right seat of a jet airliner, now they are practically giving the seat away in Corn Flakes Boxes to guys who a) don't care about flying and only the paycheck and b) have an attitude about it. And yes, there should be a pay raise for the work that is done down there to attract more qualified personnel. That won't happen anytime soon, so this will go bad some day, believe me. I just hope no one on board is who I know so I can skip out on going to a funeral...
Why would LAN ARG only fly to Brazil? It's a bigger world out there,you know, and there are two directions that still need to be explored, and LAN knows it: The eastern Pacific and (ta-daaaa) Southern Africa. That is were my bet with LAN Argentina comes into play...
Well, so much for now... gotta get my bags ready for my trip to Vancouver, it's cold up there...
Happy Landings...
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Argentina domestic fares are limited by the gob.
here is the link so you believe me.
SISTEMA TARIFARIO PARA PASAJEROS DE VUELOS REGULARES DE CABOTAJE
Subsecretaria de Transporte Aerocomercial
Only domestic fares are regulated, international fares are free.
I don't remember in Brazil but I think they have a NO-dumping policy but they don't regulate the max fares for domestic travel.
And yes I know some captains that are jobless. There are always jobless pilots, in all counties. Its is impossible to hire 100% of the pilots because there is always people not technically qualified. Some of them try to fly for LAN Argentina and they were dumped in the pyrotechnics aptitude test (psicotecnico in spanish). Some of those captains were dumped by aerolineas because they fly on a strike and basically no pilot in the company wants to fly with them so they were retired. They were scams. Some captains next to 60 are retired of aerolineas argentinas, LAPA, SW and some companies. Here after 50 years old you can retire with your pension so to be honest, most don't qualify as jobless pilots. Most of those pilots are at home enjoying their retirement. The guys from 45 to 50 are the only guys complicated.
And the pacific for LAN, yes they could fly. The only market in the pacific for Argentina is Buenos Aires-Auckland-Sydney. Auckland and Sydney is served by LAN form Santiago de Chile on a daily basis and Buenos Aires-Sydney is served by Qantas, casually a Oneworld company. Soy basically LAN group covers the Pacific market very well, very efficiently. Other destinations are already covered by Oneworld and their hubs.
Aerolineas also served the Auckland-Sydney market. 4 to 5 times a week.
I give you the right hand for South-Africa. There is a market that can be exploited by LAN Group from buenos Aires. But Again, from sao paulo can be more attractive. Right know SAA fly's to Sao Paulo and is a member of star I think. TAM is a member of Star also. Once TAM and LAN decide on which alliance they will stay things can change on that route.
I know the argentina market because I live and fly here.
here is the link so you believe me.
SISTEMA TARIFARIO PARA PASAJEROS DE VUELOS REGULARES DE CABOTAJE
Subsecretaria de Transporte Aerocomercial
Only domestic fares are regulated, international fares are free.
I don't remember in Brazil but I think they have a NO-dumping policy but they don't regulate the max fares for domestic travel.
And yes I know some captains that are jobless. There are always jobless pilots, in all counties. Its is impossible to hire 100% of the pilots because there is always people not technically qualified. Some of them try to fly for LAN Argentina and they were dumped in the pyrotechnics aptitude test (psicotecnico in spanish). Some of those captains were dumped by aerolineas because they fly on a strike and basically no pilot in the company wants to fly with them so they were retired. They were scams. Some captains next to 60 are retired of aerolineas argentinas, LAPA, SW and some companies. Here after 50 years old you can retire with your pension so to be honest, most don't qualify as jobless pilots. Most of those pilots are at home enjoying their retirement. The guys from 45 to 50 are the only guys complicated.
And the pacific for LAN, yes they could fly. The only market in the pacific for Argentina is Buenos Aires-Auckland-Sydney. Auckland and Sydney is served by LAN form Santiago de Chile on a daily basis and Buenos Aires-Sydney is served by Qantas, casually a Oneworld company. Soy basically LAN group covers the Pacific market very well, very efficiently. Other destinations are already covered by Oneworld and their hubs.
Aerolineas also served the Auckland-Sydney market. 4 to 5 times a week.
I give you the right hand for South-Africa. There is a market that can be exploited by LAN Group from buenos Aires. But Again, from sao paulo can be more attractive. Right know SAA fly's to Sao Paulo and is a member of star I think. TAM is a member of Star also. Once TAM and LAN decide on which alliance they will stay things can change on that route.
I know the argentina market because I live and fly here.
Last edited by 7Q Off; 5th Jan 2011 at 16:17.
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Salaries and Roaster A-320 LAN
Very interesting topic about markets and business of aviation. In Spain Ryan air has several bases, their employees don´t pay taxes here, only a 6 % to Irish Gov. With this I want to say that everything is possible. I´m pretty sure LAN will do some big in Brazil, let’s see what they do, because Argentina the other option, is a bomb.
I rode what EagleA25 said about working In LAN, appreciate. Could anyone tell me what are the salaries in Lan? And more important, how are the rosters for A-320?
Gracias
I rode what EagleA25 said about working In LAN, appreciate. Could anyone tell me what are the salaries in Lan? And more important, how are the rosters for A-320?
Gracias
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Hi!
Is there any spanish pilot around that works for lan in chile. i'd like to get in touch with him, since i need some information since i'm moving there soon.
Algun piloto español que trabaje para lan en chile por aquí?me gustaria contactar con alguno ya que me voy para allá pronto.
Gracias!
Is there any spanish pilot around that works for lan in chile. i'd like to get in touch with him, since i need some information since i'm moving there soon.
Algun piloto español que trabaje para lan en chile por aquí?me gustaria contactar con alguno ya que me voy para allá pronto.
Gracias!
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Hi Rottax good news for you, I think you are going to something good. I hope you find somebody to help you. Maybe how could help with my two questions, Salary and Roster ( Salario y programacion) in Lan.
Thank you
Thank you
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I'm not on the company, anyway it's called Sueldo y Rol de vuelo around here, get used to it...
Rol can be adjusted in two ways 5 on 2 off and 10 on 4 off
Pay should be around U$5000 full pay for F/O, low time F/O around U$3600, then would go up in a one or two years term to the standard pay.
70 Ex-Mexicana guys came here, just 12 made it trough screening
Dont forget the license conversion.
Rol can be adjusted in two ways 5 on 2 off and 10 on 4 off
Pay should be around U$5000 full pay for F/O, low time F/O around U$3600, then would go up in a one or two years term to the standard pay.
70 Ex-Mexicana guys came here, just 12 made it trough screening
Dont forget the license conversion.