Brazil
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Well, in fact you'll need to naturalize yourself, no work permits there!
But first of all, you'll have to struggle with thousands of unemployed guys accepting low, really low wages (will fly for food!) and companies taking huge advantage of that. GOL is paying not more than USD 2000 for a 737NG captain! How does that sound to you?? USD 1000 for a 737NG F/O. Good, eh?
It's just a shame that there are lots of type rated guys there that can't even say "good morning" in english, so, how do you expect them to fly abroad? In fact a shameful situation, but a shameful attitude of the aviators as well.
Sorry for not being so optmistic, but realistic instead.
Good Luck!
But first of all, you'll have to struggle with thousands of unemployed guys accepting low, really low wages (will fly for food!) and companies taking huge advantage of that. GOL is paying not more than USD 2000 for a 737NG captain! How does that sound to you?? USD 1000 for a 737NG F/O. Good, eh?
It's just a shame that there are lots of type rated guys there that can't even say "good morning" in english, so, how do you expect them to fly abroad? In fact a shameful situation, but a shameful attitude of the aviators as well.
Sorry for not being so optmistic, but realistic instead.
Good Luck!
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Varig pays between Us$ 3 and 4 thousand per month to Md-11 and B777 captains with more than 20 years seniority. And they still manage to lose money to the point of being almost bankrupt.
GOL (domestic low cost carrier flying B737 NG) pays salaries similar to RG B737and TAM A320 fleets, and more than VASP, is making a huge profit and will pay the equivalent to four monthly salaries as profit sharing this year. Not bad for a 3 year old company.
I guess that is why some people hate GOL...
GOL (domestic low cost carrier flying B737 NG) pays salaries similar to RG B737and TAM A320 fleets, and more than VASP, is making a huge profit and will pay the equivalent to four monthly salaries as profit sharing this year. Not bad for a 3 year old company.
I guess that is why some people hate GOL...
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Ibha320...
Hey, guy, ok… We have a job, good wages and benefits. But I’m curious:
What would you do if you’re desperate for a job, short on money, with a family to look after, etc?
Frequently I read at Pprune many pilots complaining about “shameful attitude of aviators”, but I’m really interested in learning how to survive under those circumstances…
Hey, guy, ok… We have a job, good wages and benefits. But I’m curious:
What would you do if you’re desperate for a job, short on money, with a family to look after, etc?
Frequently I read at Pprune many pilots complaining about “shameful attitude of aviators”, but I’m really interested in learning how to survive under those circumstances…
Join Date: May 2000
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lbha320
Are you Brazilian? (just curious)
Thousands of unemployed guys isn’t exclusivity of Brazil. Just look at the furloughs in the US, look here at PPRuNe for the UK and rest of EU guys struggling along. Those guys up there will at some point do the “fly for food” stunt if necessary, one or another because they can’t stand sitting on the ground but others because they have rents, children and so on. It all depends on which side of the line you are, employed or unemployed looking desperately for a job.
That are a lot of rated guys in companies that can’t even say good morning in English that’s also true. I met some 737 people that could only read the checklist, but they a have a job and I don’t so….
The pay is really what Samuel Adams and lbh320 said, that converted to our currency isn’t that bad, but still below international standards - that I must say are going down rapidly for that matter. I heard that Varig was not paying the full salary again, like they did last year.
Are you Brazilian? (just curious)
Thousands of unemployed guys isn’t exclusivity of Brazil. Just look at the furloughs in the US, look here at PPRuNe for the UK and rest of EU guys struggling along. Those guys up there will at some point do the “fly for food” stunt if necessary, one or another because they can’t stand sitting on the ground but others because they have rents, children and so on. It all depends on which side of the line you are, employed or unemployed looking desperately for a job.
That are a lot of rated guys in companies that can’t even say good morning in English that’s also true. I met some 737 people that could only read the checklist, but they a have a job and I don’t so….
The pay is really what Samuel Adams and lbh320 said, that converted to our currency isn’t that bad, but still below international standards - that I must say are going down rapidly for that matter. I heard that Varig was not paying the full salary again, like they did last year.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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The pay is really what Samuel Adams and lbh320 said, that converted to our currency isn’t that bad, but still below international standards - that I must say are going down rapidly for that matter.
What I see here is a worldwide trend not at all unique to Brazil. Some of the better known personalities on this forum from Venezuela comment frequently about the pay and conditions at airlines like Santa Barbara (I am sure there are more) and I have made comments about the pay and conditions in Nicaragua-- in fact, same goes throughout Central America. In the US and Canada, the trend is downwards also now that Low-Cost Carriers give the Legacy Carriers a run for their money. Same in Europe. Just wait till the Low-Cost Carriers start competing amongst themselves! In Asia, carriers like Cathay Pacific turned the screws a few years ago, bringing in a "B" and at least for a while, a "C" scale and who knows what will come next while they maintain a leaner business model to compete against other world airlines. For example, in the People's Republic of China I heard a few years ago that a jet Captain may earn the equivalent of $1200 per month (generous in comparison for an average Chinese salary).
I recently read an Australian published book called "Flightpaths." It said that on a Sydney-Melbourne Return Airfare of $221 the costs are broken up as follows:
$54.73 Airport/Security Taxes
$2.21 Company Tax
$35.42 Staff
$33.20 Operating Lease Rentals
$17.71 Fuel and Oil
$11.07 Depreciation
$8.85 Marketing
$6.64 Other
$6.64 Cost of Sales
$4.42 Capacity Hire Insurance
$2.21 Property
$0.66 Interest
$4.43 . . . Profit!!!
The airline industry is the world's least profitable business, often averaging a net profit of only 1.1%. For someone like me, it makes me scratch my head why any sensible business person would assume the risk of starting an airline, but on the other hand, I see why they would try to continuously drive down their personnel costs and why today's environment (supply vs. demand) is favorable to them. As an aviation employee, it drives home the point that "it's always easier to
with people."
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Yes indeed, that's Latin America. 
Sorry, but I didn't understand your message.
Could you explain it, PJ?
So i guess no work for me in brazil, even tough i am portuguese, speak the sme language and i am a resident...
Fuc.%#$%...
flyby7, ora pois, my son is a young pilot, speaks Portuguese and also has an EU passport. Any chance to get a job in Portugal?
Give me a break, man!
Sorry, but I didn't understand your message.
Could you explain it, PJ?
So i guess no work for me in brazil, even tough i am portuguese, speak the sme language and i am a resident...
Fuc.%#$%...
flyby7, ora pois, my son is a young pilot, speaks Portuguese and also has an EU passport. Any chance to get a job in Portugal?
Give me a break, man!
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Bokomoko..........Give the guy a breake, he is only asking for information, and that is what this forum is all about, seems like you are having a bad day.........take it easy........cheers
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Bokomoko,
I am sorry you took my remark out of context, and in retrospect I should have elaborated.
In doing so, keep in mind that this is historically one of the firecracker topics on this forum. The fact of the matter is that throughout Latin America, permanent residency allows a person to live in work in the country issuing the document, however, the exception is that the person may not participate in the aviation industry. This is contrary to the practices of other countries, like the USA, Canada, Europe, where there is no restriction on profession once permanent residency has been granted. As we know, there are many Latin American pilots working in aviation in those countries while only having the permanent residency status . . . in my opinion "good for them." While in these days we tend to regard the above mentioned countries as countries of immigration, the truth of the matter is that most of Latin America have historically been countries that have received immigrants too (although much interest has been lost in recent decades due to political and economic problems).
While I understand the economic realities and why many Latin American pilots may feel that this is just in light of the economic difficulties in a country and the limited opportunities, these policies prevent foreigners who are permanent residents of a country, married to a native of the country and have children with citizenship in that country to work in the profession that they are best qualified for. I have known of one pilot, in Guatemala, who challenged Aeronautica Civil's law by citing the Guatemalan Constitution, which says that the parents of Guatemalan children cannot be denied the opportunity to work in a profession that gives them the best chance of providing for their children. I am sure that most reasonable people will accept this arguement-- in any case, I am completely against the concept of giving work visas to people who otherwise have no family ties to a country to do work where there are sufficiently qualified natives available.
In fact, Bokomoko, if your son has an EU passport and is a pilot I would think that he would have no problem in getting a job not only in Portugal but the rest of Europe (assuming he meets the job's time and licence requirements and checks-out in the interview). I have come to admire the EU model. Send him to get his JAA license.
Nobody is shouting here, although some of us to voice our frustrations from time to time (I think that is fair).
I am sorry you took my remark out of context, and in retrospect I should have elaborated.
In doing so, keep in mind that this is historically one of the firecracker topics on this forum. The fact of the matter is that throughout Latin America, permanent residency allows a person to live in work in the country issuing the document, however, the exception is that the person may not participate in the aviation industry. This is contrary to the practices of other countries, like the USA, Canada, Europe, where there is no restriction on profession once permanent residency has been granted. As we know, there are many Latin American pilots working in aviation in those countries while only having the permanent residency status . . . in my opinion "good for them." While in these days we tend to regard the above mentioned countries as countries of immigration, the truth of the matter is that most of Latin America have historically been countries that have received immigrants too (although much interest has been lost in recent decades due to political and economic problems).
While I understand the economic realities and why many Latin American pilots may feel that this is just in light of the economic difficulties in a country and the limited opportunities, these policies prevent foreigners who are permanent residents of a country, married to a native of the country and have children with citizenship in that country to work in the profession that they are best qualified for. I have known of one pilot, in Guatemala, who challenged Aeronautica Civil's law by citing the Guatemalan Constitution, which says that the parents of Guatemalan children cannot be denied the opportunity to work in a profession that gives them the best chance of providing for their children. I am sure that most reasonable people will accept this arguement-- in any case, I am completely against the concept of giving work visas to people who otherwise have no family ties to a country to do work where there are sufficiently qualified natives available.
In fact, Bokomoko, if your son has an EU passport and is a pilot I would think that he would have no problem in getting a job not only in Portugal but the rest of Europe (assuming he meets the job's time and licence requirements and checks-out in the interview). I have come to admire the EU model. Send him to get his JAA license.
Nobody is shouting here, although some of us to voice our frustrations from time to time (I think that is fair).
Join Date: May 2000
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Bokomoko, your sun is entitled to work and live in any EU country. Just make sure you get a SCANIA full of money to get the JAA licence!! 
(and that he learn at least another language aside from English)
PJ, interesting point of view, but I am sure there are more professions that can’t take foregein people in LA? My father works in the Ship industry and he never naturalized as a Brazilian (I have both Dutch and Brazilian) and never found this to be a problem. I was thinking that maybe this is a cultural issue as our CAA is ruled by the military since the first days of aviation there in Brazil, they could say that is a matter of national security - I am not justifying it, just my point of view - although that would be a reason for not letting my father work in the ship industry as this one is also regulated by the Navy, so…
As for the EU system being better? I don’t know, but a lot of our colleagues here think different and its always a sensitive topic around here.
(and that he learn at least another language aside from English)PJ, interesting point of view, but I am sure there are more professions that can’t take foregein people in LA? My father works in the Ship industry and he never naturalized as a Brazilian (I have both Dutch and Brazilian) and never found this to be a problem. I was thinking that maybe this is a cultural issue as our CAA is ruled by the military since the first days of aviation there in Brazil, they could say that is a matter of national security - I am not justifying it, just my point of view - although that would be a reason for not letting my father work in the ship industry as this one is also regulated by the Navy, so…
As for the EU system being better? I don’t know, but a lot of our colleagues here think different and its always a sensitive topic around here.
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Thank you all, you all been very helpfull...
I found this forum very good in giving a lot of anwsers that i could not find in the internet!!
I am sorry for some stupid question but as you can tell i am new at this...
I was really thinking of doing a JAA course but i see that is very had to find a job, in Portugal as you all know is a very small country and is hard to get a job as a pilot.
Any way.. all the best!
I found this forum very good in giving a lot of anwsers that i could not find in the internet!!
I am sorry for some stupid question but as you can tell i am new at this...
I was really thinking of doing a JAA course but i see that is very had to find a job, in Portugal as you all know is a very small country and is hard to get a job as a pilot.
Any way.. all the best!
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Sometimes I wish I was in your shoes though flyby7. Yes, Portugal is small, but as a EU citizen all of Europe a posibility to you. Good luck!
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In Venezuela is the same as in the USA, you just have to be a resident, to have your pilots licence, and I'm not sure on this one but there were couple foreign guys working for Viasa and Avensa, not sure if they were citizens. ......................Anyway Bokomo your "ora pois" response to the guy was pretty bad, your portuguese is not better than his.......probably is the other way around.......................take care............The Cap
