Here's how to get a job in Canada
 

I am tired of reading the same question being asked over and over again! Here is a list of items that must be met in order to work as a pilot in Canada. It is not exhaustive so even if you meet these minimums, YOU MIGHT STILL NOT BE ABLE TO WORK IN CANADA!!!

1) Have the legal right to work in Canada. This is an absolute show stopper. If you don't have this prior to seeking a job, you will not get a job, end of story!

2) Have a CANADIAN COMMERCIAL pilots license. Again, this is a showstopper if you want to be a pilot in Canada. This includes necessary Canadian ratings for the type of flying you wish to do (ie: floats, multi, IFR etc)

3) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! This clearly needs to be stated more than once.

4) Understand the climate, size and remoteness of Canada and whether it's suitable to your needs/desires. Generally time building jobs will be far far away from the amenities and lifestyle you may be accustomed too.

5) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Yup, said it again, just to be crystal clear!

6) Know the hiring cycles in Canada. Ie: float operators will not generally need pilots in December

7) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! If you haven't already got the point, there is no helping you. I am not here to tell you how to get that, figure it out yourself and do the legwork.

8) understand that aviation is a small industry in Canada, everyone knows someone who knows someone. If you screw over one person to get ahead, you will pay for it severly in the future of your career.

9) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Got it yet?

10) There is a very minute chance you will ever get hired by emailing resumes. In Canada, employers value Face to face time and a handshake.

11) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Still don see what I'm getting at?

12) IF YOU OFFER TO PAY FOR YOUR TRAINING YOU WILL BE BLACKLISTED, see point 8

13) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA! Self explanatory? I thought so too, but reading so many previous posts, I am clearly wrong!

14) IF YOU OFFER TO WORK FOR FREE FOR THE EXPERIENCE, this is not only illegal but immoral, see point 8 and 12

15) HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA!!!

16) Employers value experience in Canada. There are literally hundreds of Canadian 200-500hr wonders who all think they deserve the job ahead of you, rightfully so, with significantly fewer openings available than applicants for entry level positions especially. You face an uphill battle in convincing an employer that they should hire a foreign applicant over a Canadian, but if you are thinking you can offer to work for less or save the company some training money, see points 8, 12, and 14

17). HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO WORK IN CANADA!!!

If anyone else has input or additions, please feel free to add

Do you mind if I replace all the "Canada" references and put in "Australia"? We have become a little bit easier to crack lately (Australia) but that's only for ATR and Saab 340 crews. Before anyone sends me a PM about how to get work in Australia on a ATR or a Saab, I'm not telling you.

Just thought of another one...

Research and Understand how OUR system works. It's not perfect but DO NOT try to bring your screwed up system to us. If you ask about a "Frozen ATPL" you will make yourself look foolish and ignorant.

You can pretty much apply this to the US as well except for #4 (unless you want to throw Alaska in there).

:D

Great post idea gigolo but don't forget to mention that if you don't already have the legal right to work in Canada, you can't work here.

Of course anyone is welcome to come spend their money learning to fly here, but you will not be able to work here afterwards if you don't have some legal right to work here.

Justagigolo77

If you talk about a "Frozen ATPL" at an interview, the interviewers may well ask you to go and stand outside for 5 minutes whilst they consider the question. Well in January to March anyway :E

Gigolo, great post, and applicable to most western countries, methinks. The right to reside and work is just so basic in those places where there is no real need for expatriate expertise.
About all I would add is that if the job seeker won't provide some details of experience, such as hours, licence currently held and type ratings or types flown, they do not deserve a reply.

While I don't like putting people down, why don't wannabes ever consider that 300 hours is not going to make them competitive for a bush job, when at least the locals will have some idea of the geography? And as for the dreamers who reckon 3000 hours is going to get them a jet command, as if the locals will allow that to happen.

Have these people no concept of the pecking order, aka the food chain?

LMAO... Great Post!

This should be a sticky

It is now:ok:

Sad to see that sarcasm is rewarded with this kind of recognition. A cursory glance at the Canada forum here and avcanada will reveal pretty much every thread ending up in a downward spiral of personal attacks and pointless drivel; not that prune doesn't have it's fair share of trolls.
The frustration of countless rampies, woefully underpaid, self delusionally over qualified and chronically jaded pilots and wannabees is displayed with gleeful candour.
Keep up the good work guys.:ugh:

Well, thought of one more...

Companies that list their minimum hiring requirements generally do so to get just that, pilots with that minimum experience at the very least. However, most companies will seek and hire pilots with more experience than the listed minimum, with few exceptions. However the exceptions are more often than not, only made for people who know people within the company.

Lastly, don't forget to have the legal right to work in Canada before seeking a position. :=

Nigd3, the frozen atpl made me lol! :)

So, are you telling people they must first have the legal right to work in Canada?
Who would have thought?:p

av8r76,

I agree with your post. Justagigolo77 has responded with sarcasm to the multitude of "how do I get a job in Canada" posts and has received credit for doing so.

However, we would like to believe that every pilot fresh from school has the drive to enter the commercial market. We all paid by the hour to get the ratings. Some did it with the benefit of a college, and some did it without the benefit of a college. Irrespective of how the license is obtained, the industry is presented with two distinct groups of "fresh pilots": those who do their own research, and those who do not.

Many of us, I would believe yourself included, did our own research. Some became flight instructors, and some wanted to bypass that step. Either way, we talked with instructors and pilots, tracked those companies we called, e-mailed, or faxed resumes to; we jumped into a beat up old car and made the drive to far-flung locations. We did this because we had an understanding that the only way to get our foot in the door was to put it there ourselves and hope someone noticed when they tried to close the door.

It is unfortunate, however, that many "fresh pilots" do not share this same drive. They certainly share the love of flying, but not the drive to get the first job.

Both types of pilots have equal flying ability (assuming they have not had their licenses printed in a corner market). Both types have the same desire to begin their career in earnest. However, one type realizes that all they have purchased is a fancy drivers license and now they need to go buy the car, while the other type thinks they have purchased the fancy license and a fancy car, and are waiting for the dealership to deliver.

It is this second group that needs to read and understand justagigolo77's post. I do not believe that this same response would be given were the post asking about a specific company, or help with specific research. It is the high level, "give me all the information and forms" that is angering many of the posters.

In conclusion, I believe this frustration over the number of "give me information" posts demonstrates what we as a group of pilots are looking for in the cockpit: someone who reads the books, and asks when they don't understand. The issue is, we are not seeing that online, and it is starting to slowly creep into the cockpit.

This is true for all the odd numbered bullet points, however, for those actually "reading between the lines" there is some pretty solid information in there and in subsequent posts, in my opinion anyways.

Truth be told, the sarcasm was accidental and just sort of flowed as I was typing it, as someone in another thread pointed out, it's "colonial sarcasm" in play. I'm sure most who have read these forums regularly get so sick of answering the same question over and over to the point where, "Why bother answering if people aren't going to read or believe what I'm saying anyways?" Who does that benefit?

There are a lot of out of work or under utilized aspiring pilots in Canada and it is frustrating to hear over and over again "I have jaa this and this and easa that, I want to build time in Canada, how do I do it?" and then when they get an answer they don't like, cry foul and call us "eternal pessimists" and "aviation snobs". I'm not here to make friends or have someone take jobs from more deserving citizens. Take my info or don't, I couldn't care less, but I'm sure there will be some intelligent people who will not have to waste their, or others time, writing posts and waiting for responses because of what is written above, and those are the people I appreciate and will always lend a hand to help.

Got a client, got to run:ok:

New poster here, been an avcanada viewer/occasional poster for 10+ years. liked the post, then I read Av8er76's post and I kind of agreed with some of the stuff he said, then I read mzsurnuage's post and it all made sense, unbeleivable. Now I totally see where your coming from, great post :)

legal right to work
 

Any Canuks of the female variety want to get hitched so I can legally work over there? No, seriously!

Working and living In Canada
 

Wow, lots of posts on this subject.

If you wish to "work" in Canada there are ways to do it and I did it having driven across the border in a US registered car etc.

First, I found a job that no canadian wanted in Alberta, I had to then drive to Seattle Washington and back, in three days to start work.

In Seattle I picked up a work permit and that got me through my first job in Canada who, by the way, paid for my PPC which effectively gave me a Canadian instrument rating etc.

Two days after I started work, a disgruntled Canadian pilot who was an unsuitable hire filed a load of objections that dam near got me fired.

Later I made a hell of a mistake, I married a Canadian who eventually turned out to have serious mental health issues.

That later destroyed my life and I did not fly again for a long time.

I think any pilot coming to Canada needs to invest in Condoms, and if they meet a Canadian Woman, DO NOT LIVE IN CANADA with children or contemplate giving birth to children in Canada.

Canada's legal system is devoid of Father's or Children's Rights which can entrap you in Canada never to leave, and a virtual slave.

I've lost count of the number of Canadian Pilots whose careers are cut short by
a vindictive mother with at least a personality disorder etc.

One used to fly the Prime Minister of Canada around, others were senior Examiners of Airmen etc.

If you are Australian, do not MARRY in Canada, fly here, have fun, use condoms but NEVER settle in Canada as it is a corrupt country.

Ontario for example has a mad system of child protection run by 48 private corporations who fabricate evidence habitually for funding of a billion dollars a year for the Adoption, foster home, supervised visits scam. They operate like a cult and fabrication of evidence is rampant and there are NO oversights, their lawyers become judges, where they continue to fabricate evidence to make justify accepting fabricated evidence, and or just rubber stamp any wild uncorroborated allegation of a Child Protection Worker, who by the way are not required to be registered and who have absolutely no accountability.



I've lost count of the number of pilots who have had their lives destroyed by these criminal vultures.

Canada is a great world of Aviation, wonderful bush flying, friendly people, but have no doubt what soever that bad operators exist here and its pilot beware.

You cannot name those operators or mention names, Lots of politically correct taboos exist for political correctness.

Canada for male pilots is for adventure only.

Don't ever think of living here permanently if children are going to be around.

The problem is this, most pilots are fairly young and without life experiences that might give you a heads up as to what might be in store later, quite bluntly, when you brain is largely beneath your navel you see what you want to see and not the warning signs.

Be warned, DONT have kids in Canada.
I was aware of that golden rule but was tricked with the old and true subterfuges.

The golden rule is, Never ever not use a condom in Canada. Tie a knot in it and dispose of it in a safe place.

justagigolo77
Sorry, I disagree and I'm an Australian in Canada.

I've never paid for training and I've met lots who have and training contracts, paying for training is rampant the world over.

You are about as unlikely to be "black listed' in Canada as anywhere else.

Canadian Pilots are notoriously for having got their licences in incestuous training programs that are similar to that in Australia or NZ etc.

The difference is, if you have good skills, good attitude and determination, you will land a job here and it is a relatively easy task to do IF you do your home work.

There are a tonne of operators who hire pilots without even looking at their immigration status, however, if you fall for that idea, bear in mind that any "Immigration" officer can not only demand to see your licence but WILL want to see your immigration papers.

So, its wise to understand that process, a simple process that MUST be complied with, especially if you fly into any airport AFTER flying an International flight.

I recall two occasions having such a check and once returning from the USA by car, I ended up spending a week stuck in the USA before they confirmed that my documents were ok..

That's madness for you.

Ramjet555... If you ever lose your license for whatever reason...
 

Well I'm sure you could succeed in Comedy!

Had a good laugh reading your two posts.

Such anger is unbecoming.

Im confused, No pilot has ever had a successful family life in Canada, is that the jist? Well, that was completely non-sensical posting. Well done, RAM, I think we all got a good laugh at your expense tonight.:D

This brings up an interesting point. Seems to me, we do have a large number of expatriate Aussies and Kiwi's. Is it easier for A/NZ pilots to get work permits for Canada? I've run into them all over the country, I know for a fact of at least 10 that work for AC

Yes, not sure if the age is 26 and under, or 30 and under - but as members of the Commonwealth - they can get a 1 year work permit - which gets their foot in the door much easier than most countries.

You only need the legal right to work in Canada if the flying you intend to do is legal.
Bootlegging, low level border hopping, flying illegals across the border and chisel charters do not require a work permit : )

......but how do I get a job in Canada without having the right to work in Canada?










sarcasm..................................................... ..............:E

Quite a number of Brits used to come over each Winter with the aircraft to do flights for Skyservice ( 7-8 years ago).
It was a reciprocal arrangement with the Skyservice guys bringing aircraft over to Europe in the Summer.
Of course the unions on both sides howled and whined . The year I did it Transport Canada decided to limit the number of validations and and Skyservice paid for around 50 of us to do a course to obtain a Canadian ATPL as well as a Work permit .
It was a great experience and we loved it. The vast majority of Canadians were very welcoming and a pleasure to fly with. The aircraft were reregistered and a half-hearted attempt at a respray. They were cleared to fly two tonnes heavier than in UK ( A320) and then back down two tonnes when back home.
Of course a Canadian pilot should have first crack at a Canadian flying job but , in this case, with the aircraft moving backwards and forwards , there would have to be a lot of hiring and firing.
As the world becomes more global, perhaps it is appropriate that pilots can lead the way.

Your message was most interesting for in fact, this is what the Canadian regulations require. Flying commercially in Canada with a Foreign licence and an FLVC is not allowed for revenue flight under Part VII (any commercial flying).

Whomever required that you acquire a Canadian licence that year to fly in Canada was most correct. For reasons, and under circumstances that are still a mystery to me, that Regulation and it's associated Standard are not being enforced by Transport Canada Civil Aviation.

All will be fine, until the day a major incident occurs during a revenue airline flight with a pilot fielding an FLVC instead of a Canadian ATPL, and then questions will be asked; insurance companies will question the legitimacy of the pilot and the lawyers will have a field day......

Ref: CAR 705.106 and the Standard 725.106(6)

Canada has a long history of having people fly around for a living who did not even have commercial licence etc. I know of one foreign well heeled guy who operated an unofficial charter business for years.

I recall one dubious character operated chisel charters, mixed with smugglers, and was repeatedly investigated without ever a charge that I'm aware of. He was also an accident going to happen. He also employed pilots and I don't think he would have worried about any licence but that's speculation.

Then there are the semi professional operators where its a very gray line between what requires an operator certificate and what does not. You could be an experienced private pilot and have an official job with them.

When I first arrived, one of my first job offers (that I turned down) was a "government Job" and it was not in Canada. At the time, they were actively recruiting and their same sub-contractors are still at it in various locations.

Most of that sort of contract work has been taken over by more legitimate operators with a lot more official cover.

Going up the ladder, if you convert or obtain a Canadian Commercial Licence, that gives you the qualifications required but a work permit, is something else and in some operations, its not exactly the first thing that needs checking.

Operators if they can't locate a Canadian to do the job, well its very easy to hire a foreigner and all it takes is one motivated person with a good relationship with the local politicians and the local manpower office.

That bit of paper can be signed in a flash and have give you a legal work permit for that employer which means he has a slavery licence. Getting out of bad operator is difficult. That means finding another right set of factors and getting another bit of paper. Not impossible but you would be wise to make your first choice a good one.

On the whole, your flying career in Canada either short term or long term can be very easy to kick start.

Ignore all the negative crap you see here written for their own reasons that don't add up.

Then there is marriage to a Canadian. Not that difficult and easy to establish, also easy to get a work permit while the application is being processed. It can be screwed up, you could be asked to leave but bonafide marriages will probably not have a problem.

Then there is that under 30 one year work permit that Commonwealth countries share. Very easy to get and its a start. For Australians, it may well be easier to get a job in Alaska then Canada as the Aus-USA agreement is better than the Canadian US agreement.

Getting qualified is a breeze if you have experience. The Theory exam is simple, the INRAT is probably the most difficult one of the lot anyone will face and all it takes is study. It is very different to the US instrument written and very also different to anything in most other countries.

In time, you change from a visitor on a work permit to a landed immigrant and or citizen. It's just time.

Then there are employer requirements. I can think of a number of employers who operate in multiple countries and transferring an employee to Canada is again fairly easy.

So, don't believe all the negative posts. There is however a group who don't like foreigners and if you check into them, you find that the most aggressive are actually immigrants themselves.

My view is that Canada is a great place to fly, a great place to visit but it's one country where many immigrants are bitterly disappointed and return to their former countries.

Canada has serious problems of corruption in various forms that Canadians take for granted and accept but which foreigners know does not exist in their own countries to the same extent.

The trouble is, once you move to Canada, you can end up being trapped here and unable to ever leave as a result of that corruption and lawlessness that makes Canada in some respects a less than third world country.

To be blunt, I wish I had never set foot in Canada and would leave in a flash and tear up my Canadian passport with glee.

There are lots of places in the world where you can fly for a living and have adventure.

Canada has its own unique aviation that you won't see anywhere else. For those reasons, if you come here, seek out that adventure which means getting a float rating, float experience etc that you are unlikely to get anywhere else.

That will give you a life time of memories and experience that you won't get anywhere else. Moving to another country can be intimidating and stressful but don't even think about sending a resume first. If you want to do it, buy a ticket and get on a plane and the rest will work out for you.



.

Ram, lot of bitterness there. If you are so unhappy then go.

Marriages fail in all walks of life.

This is a very international profession as we all know. As long as people are following the rules, all good.

Well having read Ram's post several times I do not see much in his opinion of working in Canada that is all that far off the mark.

I also was a landed immigrant and have worked in many countries, Ram failed to mention that corruption is to be found most anywhere on earth.

I do however agree that the level of corruption found in Canada with regard to TCCA is equal to or worse than that to be found in third world countries, in fact I feel safer dealing with third world country regulators than the Canadian regulator.

Oh, by the way I am giving my opinion using my real name and not under the cover of anonymity.

Which corruptions?
 

As Canada ranked 9th out 0f 177 in the corruption index for 2013, there might be some, but I'm curious to know where and what? (The PMO? :eek:)

Maybe the word corruption is not the correct word to use, so lets examine it from another angle.

As this group are mainly aviation people a lot of whom either earn their living in aviation or are planning on doing so, which means they will have to work under the approval of TCCA.

How efficient is TCCA in the performance of their duties which is regulating the industry to the betterment of the end users...Us?

What services do they perform efficiently and far more important in a fair and equal manner across the board to all citizens whom they are sworn to serve fairly?

I won't address the minefield of legal gobblygook that the CARS are, first we should look at finding out how efficient they are to deal with....say for instance the process of applying for and getting approval of an Operating Certificate to start a new business.

Once we get into the process of applying for approval to hold an Operating Certificate we then can link CARS into the process and see how that works in their decisions.

8, 12, and 14 need a lot of working on in the US, we have too many 190-250 hour wonders who are willing to pay upwards of 10 grand to pretend they're pilots, very often the industry rewards it in the US.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Dear Chuck
 

Yup…been there done that…it's for sure a "regional differences" process…and who ya know helps! Cheers.
LC

(Sorry for the thread creep)

pilot and apprentice

You don't seem to have a clue so here is a brief reality check for all male pilots thinking of coming to Canada.

1. Canada has "Male Sharia Law", 97% of all custody decisions are given to mothers regardless of if she happens to be a cocaine addict and the most violent psychopath since Homolka was treated as a victim.

In Ottawa a woman stabbed her sleeping husband in the chest and got off claiming without a shred of evidence that she was a victim of abuse.

In Ottawa the Supreme Court of Canada let a woman off who hired a hitman to kill her husband. The Supreme court without a shred of evidence claimed the police failed in their duty to treat her as a victim.

I know a lot of pilots whose careers were destroyed by our Canada's corrupt family court system that has NO legal rights for children or fathers.

The vast majority of children now grow up without a father. Around 25% of birth certificates do not have a father named or the wrong dummy placed there.

Courts routinely order fathers to pay more support than their income. Once orders are made they become next to impossible to vary or cancel.

Across Canada most police forces arrest and charge male victims of domestic violence which means, if you make such a claim it must be false.

That means most intelligent men will not report domestic violence to police and, their women know that which encourages women to kill and or assault their male partners with impunity.

If you are a male thinking of coming to Canada, do not have children in Canada, if you do, you may be trapped here permanently like a very large number of immigrant males who thought Canada's snowy white landscape reflected a society based on the Rule of Law.

It's not, its based on what ever women want women get and men are regarded as sperm donors, support payors and indentured slaves.

Once in that system, you are unlikely to ever leave Canada.

That's a reality check that I think most male pilots who are divorced fathers will concur with.

Fathers / Pilots in the UK have it even worse, as do many in some states of the USA. Canada however copies the legal trends in the USA. Australians think theirs is bad but don't know how lucky they really are compared to say the UK and Canada.

I've lost count of the number of pilots who have had their careers destroyed by the Canadian Family Court System and Ontario, has one of the worst reputations. There is almost no point in going to court in Ontario, the decisions are generally, with some rare exceptions predictable on gender.

That's enough for this post on this forum....

@Ramjet555...
 

It's funny how you just happen to mention Ontario and how it is bent backwards to fvck the men...

However my sister lives in Ontario and is divorced from a scum bag that has not paid any child support in more than two years and my sister as had no help from the judicial system. Meanwhile the scum bag lives the life of a millionaire and she as to struggle to make it.

@Ramjet,

Life is what you make of it. I would love to hear the other side of the story, because you sound like a real treat. So typical, nothing is ever my fault, the world screwed me, I have nothing because of other people screwing me, blah blah blah. Did someone hold a shotgun to your head and say go to canada? Did someone hold a shotgun to your head and say marry her? Did someone hold a shotgun to your head and say procreate with her? Unlikely, as these are YOUR life choices, you made your bed, now sleep in it and stop your whining. It's hilarious how you try to defend your position, were you present during ANY of the situations that you mentioned. Unless they were your cases then I severely doubt it.

My sister is also a lifetime resident of Ontario and a spectacular mother who can barely make ends meet while her ex that left 8yrs ago with 4 and 6 yr olds, is continually on vacations and buying properties and toys, and the kids (now 14 and 12) get very very little from their father besides a Christmas and birthday gift. Why? Because he wasn't earning much at the time of their official separation, can it be revisited? Nope, courts have ruled, father gets a clean bill. For every pathetic story you tell of a father "getting screwed", there are probably 10 mothers being left with little or nothing to take care of the kids, being abused physically, emotionally and financially and no means of recourse because the father is a total deadbeat or just simply a degenerate. Maybe you fit into one of the latter categories, take a look in the mirror!

RAM, how cute, you put a link to my profile :ok:

I am born Canadian, was married, have kids, and given my aviation history have far too many friends who have also had failed marriages. :ugh: Your 'warnings' have nothing to do with aviation, let alone a rational, unbiased view of Canadian Family Law.

As far as TC being corrupt, I think inefficient is a better term. I've yet to see brown envelopes passing hands on a daily basis to get things done. I agree that the politicos in charge who allow the regional variations in interpretation to continue should be summarily fired. Appalling. But again, incompetence isn't really corruption.

I've yet to see another country I prefer: to live, to work, or to fly

-------------------------------

aviatorhi: agreed. Important points.

I for one am happy that TC has not relented to the pressure to reduce the minimums for a Canadian Instructor Rating as well. What we sorely lack though, is a reasonable way to get the new guys some experience.

I am almost at a loss for words on how to respond to the quality of flight instructors that are being produced under TC's oversite........reducing the minimums would really be something to see.


I am finding retirement to be rather boring at times so to make life more interesting I am starting a new project that is focused on exactly what you just mentioned.

It is a pilot training program aimed at young people who are in the process of becoming commercial pilots.

There is a big time period of building time and flying experience between the PPL and the CPL, it is that time frame I will be aiming at with a program that corrects any poor training that the student has been subject to and also will re-teach the basics if needed.

Once the student reaches a high level of flying skills they will then be able to rent an airplane at a rate two thirds the rate available at most FTU's.

Basically they will be able to build time at a lower cost with advanced flight training and mentoring provided during the process, so that when they start the dual training required for the CPL they will in a lot of cases be able to teach the instructor that was approved by TC.

The airplanes that I will start with are a home-built PA11 replica and a Thatcher CX4.

P.S. ...

I also can give marriage counseling to pilots who lose their way in their love life. :E