Seneca College Program
 

Hi all:

This question is manily addresed to any Seneca student that is currently on the program or already graduated. However, any person with some info about the program may be able to input.

I will like to know how is the training experience and how many hours are you allowed to fly on the sim? How is the program overall; and what most of you are planning on doing after the 4th year? (for those who already graduated what r u guys currently doing? )

I currently have an 82% overall do you think I will get accepted? What was the average or cut off mark when u guys entered?

Thanks for the feedback

CUB181,

I'm not a Seneca graduate, so I wouldn't know about the course.

I have flown with numerous Seneca graduates in my 30+ years in the industry. I can honestly say they are some of the smartest pilots I have had the pleasure to fly with. They seem to be trained well.

If you decide on Seneca, I hope to fly with you before I retire.

Cheers,

ex-beagle

I have already decide on Seneca now its up to them to accept me:ok: .

I've heard that it is a good school, and you get no summers off which I find very good; contrary to other people. A summer flying means hard work and lots of time to learn what I've always wanted to.

You sound like a very nice person and I thank you for your comments regarding Seneca students. I also hope to fly with you and meet you some time in life before an "odd" number take you away from flying.

you take care and thanks for the feedback

Things may have changed, but in the past high school GPA was not a factor in being accepted. All candidates were given a math test and acceptance was based on your score on the test. Anyhow I went to Seneca and I found it to be a very good program. Frustrating while I was in it, but after the fact I came to appreciate just how comprehensive it was. The things I learned there have definitely been more helpful since entering the "airline" world...not so much for those first couple of jobs in the "bush" world, however. In my opinion it should be considered amongst the top aviation programs in North America.

I don't know about the high school GPA but I kinda agree with you about it, the program's web site doesn't say anything about the marks needed. However, a math and an english test are needed to past, as you said, prior to enter. I've only heard good things about Seneca and right now I'm very enthusiastic about it, I'm only 2 weeks away from finishing high school.

Just as a side note, I had to fill my College Aplication with more than 1 option so I get my money's worth. My first option was Seneca, then Sault, and finally Confederation..all to the flight program. What do you guys think?

For Universities I applied for Waterloo's Science and Aviation, and Western's Management and Aviation. How are this programs? other than being very but very expensive. Although my dad and family are dying for me to go to university..Seneca is my top choice. Man I dream about it everynight this is so important for me, and means a heck of a lot!!

thanks for the feedback

The training doesnt matter, you will learn more in your first flying job than you will in all the training that you did. Training just covers the basics, now to make you a great pilot, you need the experience.

CUB181 -

Those 5 schools are the exact ones ill be applying to next year... but i think my first shoice will be Sault. Any graduates/students on here from the soo? Care to lend some advice? marks needed? thanks.

Just remember that Sault and Seneca have quotas. If you're not in the top X of the class, you get cut from the program as they only have a certain number of spots available for students in later semesters. Confederation, on the other hand, has no such quotas and all though attrition is high, there are spots available for all students so long as they achieve passing marks.

Hi,
I used to be in Toronto and thought about the Seneca aviation program too.
When i went online and did some research on flight school in Canada, I searched Coastal Pacific Aviation.
If you look at their course outline. it's a really good and challenging program.
Also, you can get a degree of B.B.A. in aviation too.
I'm in the program now and i'd say it's been a good experience so far!

WOW.. $75K for the degree program at Coastal Pacific! Am I reading that right?

If so that's incredible. How do people afford that? I thought Seneca was expensive at $40K!

Sault Ste Marie College, diploma and flight training (CPL - MIFR) = ~$13K

Confederation College, diploma and flight training (CPL - Float rating) = ~$8K


If you're deciding on an aviation college, at least try to see if you can get in to one of the subsidized ones first. Confederation's program was under-subscribed this year which means they pretty much accepted everyone who applied.

Wow, I am getting old. I thought it was rough being $25K in the hole after my Private, Commercial, Multi-IFR and then Instructor’s rating. First twin job was less than $800 a month after tax. Oh how times have changed. What will it be like in another 25 years?

The reasons for Seneca and Coastal Pacific's high price is because you are also getting a degree. You are paying for both the training and the degree at the same time.

to user maple leaf:

I wish you were wrong, but you are not. Times have indeed changed, and not for better. I won't be paying a cent out of my pocket for any of this programs because I don't have the money for it. I'm applying for an student loan because that's the only way I can afford my post secondary education. Not sure about whether they'll give all the money but, at least it's worth a try!

Actually at Seneca the flight training is subsidized by the Ontario government so in affect you're only paying for tuition. This is why the program is only $40K not $75K like other aviation degree programs.

What you have to realize is that the degree you obtain from Seneca is an Applied Technology Degree which is not practical for anything outside aviation. It's fine if you're able to pursue a lifelong career in aviation but what if you lose your medical or want a career change (for whatever reason)?

You must also realize that your degree will have no bearing on your first few jobs in aviation and the same could be said about the aviation diplomas received from Sault and Confederation. Instructor, dock, ramp or entry level flying positions, in most cases, don't require post secondary education. Skills and personality are really what most employers are interested in. There are a few operators that do require an aviation diploma/degree like North Wright Aviation but most do not. Another thing to consider is that entry level positions in aviation pay very poorly and it can be difficult to manage a heavy debt load.

Another option would be to graduate from Sault or Confederation, and while working your first few jobs and obtaining aviation experience and flight time, attend university part time through correspondence. Both programs at Sault and Confederation will get you a one year credit at the University of Athabasca towards a Bachelor in Business Admin. You can complete your degree in your spare time in a non-industry specific program which will allow you to have something to fall back on if you are unable to fulfill a career in aviation.

I'm not bashing anyones choice in program or trying to change anyones mind; I'm just offering up suggestions and opinions based on the information I collected when I was deciding what options I had for flight training.

How the industry has changed is amazing, when I first started flying I could barely read and write, my math skills reached its zenith when I was able to count high enough to confirm a dozen condoms were in the package.

Now many decades later the industry has far easier airplanes to fly and you need a degree to apply for the job.

What is wrong with this picture?

C.E.

Well
I guess the difference between Seneca and Coastal Pacific is that.

Coastal Pacific : get a B.B.A. degree (business degree) which you can find an office job easily after getting tired of flying (not that you're going to mentally, but you might fail to get Class 1 medical later in life)

Seneca: I'm not not sure what you get, as far as I know, you'll get like a science degree or something. Which it's kind of useless cause it's too general. But the good side of is government funded.

And at coastal, you get to go to a University while Seneca you go to a College. As far as I know, Airliners are now demanding higher educated pilot.

But i mean, both schools are top in Aviation in Canada. So I guess it depends who you are in order to be successful pilot.

**Correct me if I'm wrong about the Seneca program :bored:

No, you're correct. Seneca is an Applied Technology Degree. The BBA from Coastal Pacific is definitely more flexible for applications outside of aviation.

You're right. My avg it's like 75 and i got in to the program.
Well...i got lots of extra activities. But then my friend who got high 60s avg and got in.
Coastal is flexible for getting in. But if you want to continue studying in the school, you need to maintain a B- in the program. That isn't easy at all.


I'm not sure about Seneca, but I heard lots of people saying it's not easy also.

All I know is I know lots of Coastal graduate went to "Pacific Coastal", "Air Canada", "West Jet", But I have never heard a Seneca graduate hits some big name airline industry...:bored:

Well actually parts of it haven't changed that much. First job in 1997 paid $1000/month (before tax). (Navair, PA31 YVR)

Actually I know for a fact that there are a number of Seneca grads out there working for Air Canada and West Jet. And even some Sault grads too.

Sault does not have the same kind of quota as Seneca. Seneca takes the top numbers in the class, and moves them on. So you are competing against your class mates. At Sault you just have to mantain a 3.1 GPA, Aprox. 71%, and whoever makes the mark, moves on. So in this case you aren't competing against your class mates, and could make it easier to seek help when you need it.

All three Ontario subsidized schools have been around for several decades and have seen their graduates succeed in all aspects of aviation including major airlines like Air Canada, Westjet and Cathay.


Wannabepilot1531: Thanks for correcting me as I was under the assumption that they only allowed a certain number of students through to subsequent semesters. Seems like they have similar criteria as Confederation in terms of academic progression.

So I guess it doesn't really matter which school you go to. Cause you'll still have an opportunity of getting in to major airlines.(If you don't consider the cost)

You got it, pretty much, the moral of the story is... get your education where ever the heck you want. And worry more about the hours and stuff.

Exactly.

In my opinion that's why cost does become a factor.

This is paramount and why I've decided to pursue a degree through correspondence while I'm working.

School does matter. The fact that Seneca only accepts top of the class students makes the program very demanding and somehow puts you over some other schools regarding student academic and experience. The fact that students are always working hard with too little time off, it's part of the training towards airlines mostly. Seneca students will be more used to stress situations than many students at Sault (for example), thanks to the time consuming and stressful program they' have been under. All pilots are tested to see their performance under stressful situations I consider Seneca students to have a better training on this aspect.No saying what school is better than the rest, just pointing out some aspects that people need to consider.

I'm not a student of any of these aviation colleges, however, lots of research and talking have helped me figure out the pluses and cons of each program.

"The fact that Seneca only accepts top of the class students makes the program very demanding and somehow puts you over some other schools regarding student academic and experience."

Sounds like you'll fit in quite nicely at Seneca.

There are a multitude of pilots flying in all aspects of aviation that have little to no education. Attending a specific school will not make you a better pilot or employee.

You do realize that you will not be hired directly into an airline upon graduating from Seneca? Like the vast majority of low-time pilots in Canada, your first job will be a toss up between working the dock or ramp, instructing or if you're lucky, flying a small piston single or twin as a pilot (or co-pilot) somewhere much further north than Toronto. I hope Seneca can prepare you for this as it can be quite the reality check for most that are unaware of how the Canadian aviation industry works.


As a side note, Confederation College is only a two year diploma program and does not delve into the maths and sciences that Sault or Seneca do. What does make their program exciting, challenging and stressful (at times) is that flight training happens right from day one. Each semester has academic standards to be met but also have flying standards to be met. This is just for your information and not for a proverbial "pissing contest".

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:

" There are a multitude of pilots flying in all aspects of aviation that have little to no education. Attending a specific school will not make you a better pilot or employee. "

The reason that there are many pilots with very little education flying in all aspects of aviation is quite simple.

To be a good pilot and able to make sound judgements does not require any formal education beyond the ability to read and write and some basic math skills.

Conversely, I have run across a few graduates from these college programs with a very dangerous know it all attitude that does not belong in any aircraft cockpit.

Just an observation from an uneducated ordinary airplane driver. :ok:

I agree with you and most of the users in here that education isn't exactly the most important aspect of a pilot. However, you can't deny, it can provides you with better chances of been hire than anyother pilot, with the same flying time as you. Why?, well because you have both the same hours, but you have a better education and you have a degree!! that my friend is the cruel reality. I'm feeling a bit annoyed by people who didn't not study, or were not precisely good at school, and consider themselves better pilots than the ones that actually got a degree.

It seems like I'm always talking to the same person. Everybody says the same over and over again. What's up?, like you don't have anything else to say rather than.."Did you know you won't be hired by an airline after college?" even a 2 year old with no knowledge whatsoever about the industry can say that. That happens in every single job, it's not like aviation is the only one. People like you make everything look impossible, and that's the main reason of why they never get to do anything to be proud of themselves. They expend their failure future on forums like this persuading many, but many people from the aviation path, by making it look impossible.

Off course that attending to an specific school will not make you a better pilot at all, the name of the school, as well as the reputation of the school, does impact on you ability of competing with other pilots, who have the same logged hours as you do, and exactly the same results in the interview. It's like a software engineering graduated from Hardvard University, and a Software Engineering graduated from Confederation College. They both have a degree, but, as a matter of fact thet graduated from Hardvard has way more chances of getting hired.

There's too much negativity coming from frustrated pilot. but again, this is just my opinion, please respect it as I respect other's.

Oh the irony.. (unless of course your mother tongue is not English)

Anyway, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm just providing you with some information and an opinion from someone that went through all these decisions recently.

Good luck with the Seneca entrance exams and all the best with your training in the future.

You got it right, my mother tongue is not English, so I'm sorry for the butchering :oh:. I hope u understand what I tried to say, I was just seeing too much negativity and that happens very often on aviation related forums.
Thank you for wishing me good luck, right now, I'm studying very hard to prepare for those exams..hopefully it will all work out. I'll post again when I get accepted (if I am) so I may help others by giving them information regarding the program.

You need to get a grip man. Seneca isn't harvard! Your first 5-10 years in the industry is going to be very hard on you if you think your superior education is going to open doors for you. What the Navajo or C-185 owner wants is someone who will dig outhouse holes while being destroyed by mosquitoes in the rain, someone that will stay outside in the middle of the night and fix a honda pump when it's -40C. Your absolute crap attitute surely won't help you with those jobs. Not even your Seneca jacket will save you there.

Aviation college does not prepare one for digging outhouses, but that doesn't mean eduation is pointless. Aviation college will however look considerably better on an airline application than digging outhouses does. Embark on your education/training with the long term view...what will achieve the most in the long run. Not what will give you the best chance at fixing a honda generator. Everybody struggles through the first 5-10 years of flying, college educated or not. Those that have gained a degree or diploma will be thankful they did however when it comes time to fill in the boxes on the Air Canada or Westjet hiring form.

I have a college diploma from Con College and while it may have have helped me to get my interview, what got me the job was my experience flying up north. (including digging more outhouse holes than I care to admit too.) I don't care who you are, there is NOTHING like hands and feet experience. On a dark and stormy night I would much rather be sitting beside someone who has been there and done that before, than someone who has spent 2000 hr in the circuit.

I'll be finished my degree in Business Admin in April, and have already been accepted into Sault. I applied to Confederation too, and haven't heard back yet but I think I will get in there too.

I'm kind of leaning towards Confederation, for the Float rating, and also their program is a little shorter and they start flying right away. Do you think a Multi-IFR from Sault would be better?

I'm worried I'm starting this a little late, because I did my degree first. Starting this fall '07 at 23, I'll be 25 or 26 years old by the time I finish (depending if I do Sault or Confed). Do you think my degree will be useless after the aviation college if I can't find a job? Or I'll be too old for building Aviation experience?

cheers

sstaurus: Go for Confederation. I'm 29 and in my final semester there as we speak. Your age will not hinder your chances at an aviation career. CPL pilot with a university degree and an aviation diploma at age 25.. you'll be fine. More than young enough for a long aviation career.. and with your educational background you're set if aviation doesn't work out.

Since you have a BAdmin you should be able to get exemptions from several non-aviation classes like accounting, business law, supervision (HR), English (2 semesters worth) and possibly computers. Depends on what classes you took at university. I was able to secure 7 out of 8 possible exemptions with my previous post-secondary education. Makes focusing on the aviation portion of the program much easier.

Good luck with your decision and PM me if you have any questions.

@Sepia

I'm tired of hearing the same crap over and over again.

"You need to get a grip man. Seneca isn't harvard! Your first 5-10 years in the industry is going to be very hard on you if you think your superior education is going to open doors for you."

My neighbor that knows nothing about the industry knows this.


"What the Navajo or C-185 owner wants is someone who will dig outhouse holes while being destroyed by mosquitoes in the rain, someone that will stay outside in the middle of the night and fix a honda pump when it's -40C"

A what?? a C-185?? English muffins? Digging?

"Your absolute crap attitute surely won't help you with those jobs. Not even your Seneca jacket will save you there."

You are telling me I have a crappy attitude because I think that going to Seneca and getting my licenses and a degree at the same time, will prepare me better if my goal is to fly for an airline, either cargo or pax?

I guess your statement works only when stating you frustrations... I'm sorry if you haven't been able to come up with a plan B for getting out of what the heck you're into right now. But I purely wish you the best of luck, and exhort you to keep improving both your flying skills as well as you persona and education so you can maybe put an end to all this negativity and hate towards other wannabes like myself.

you take care and c ya around

Jazz recruiting direct from college?
 

There is a rumour that Jazz and one other airline are actually going direct to the various aviation training colleges and recruiting direct for their airline.
The question begs, is this true????? and how do feel having a right hand seat with only 250 hrs driving you around in the sky???

Although I wish for that to be true..I don't think it's likely to happen. I first heard about this at avcanada, and the topic caused lots of discussions and debate between users.

airlines having some sort of cadet program are mostlikely to occur in Europe or Asia because of the "lack" of pilots over there. It is indeed very expensive to get a license outside this cadet programs, therefore, airlines create it to reclute their pilots from there. that's why there are airline pilots at Europe with 250TT.

In the other hand, Canada is full of pilots applying for a job at the airlines. Many people over here have licenses because it is relatively cheaper to get licenses than at Europe or Asia. AC have tons of applicants and same with Jazz therefore, I don't see a reason why they need to create a cadet program joint with the airline.

just as a side note...the aviation college was Seneca College


and another side note....:)

I got accepted to Sault and Confederation already...however, I'm waiting for Seneca since it is my first choice.

If you have more info on this "rumour" plzz keep us or me..aware of it..thanks :P