BURN!!!! :D :ok:

He hehehehe. Now that's funny.


I guess a guy coming from flying club with a multi-IFR in one year , B, C, D student in high school is Sh!t out of luck. I guess it is just the College boys that fly the heavy metal.:rolleyes:

BCflyer you're mistaken when you call me arrogant. You don't even know me, you don't know how hard it has been for me to get to where I am right now.

"As for what makes a better pilot, how many flying hours do you have? When you have done some real life work and have some experience under your belt I'll take your comments about what makes a good pilot seriously."

Seneca students, like most cadet programs in Europe are as experienced as they need to be to be hired by the airlines, else they won't be hired. The experience you claim to have should have taught, and show you that there are pilot in Europe and the rest of the world flying safely with 200hrs. I don't see how can 200hr mean bad pilot. As well as a 4000hr a good pilot.

Jazz is not and will not be the only airline who hires pilot with 200hrs.There are also some new middle-east airlines hiring Seneca grads. 16 are at Oman Airlines right now, and yes with 200hrs.

"Green eyed monster? Are you trying to insinuate that I'm jealous of a program that will place 200hr guys in a Dash-8? :rolleyes:"

Wow you had to use google for that one eh?

It looks like they started you on the koolaid early. (do they send out little packets with your acceptance letter?) You come out with a statement like "the only reason on Jazz deciding on start a cadet program with Seneca is because they find Seneca students to be the best trained." and then you have the audacity to wonder why people dislike Seneca grads? Once you have been in this industry for a while you'll figure out the REAL reason Jazz is looking at 200hr pilots. (little hint, it's not because you have the best training)

First of all, what is koolaid? I'm not even from Canada. Again you're stereotyping, you are assuming I'm arrogant, and believe me my friend I'm not.
The statement cannot be anything else, but the closes reason of Jazz hiring grads. And if you're insinuating that it is because no one wants to fly for them, again, I'll tell you are mistaken, and talk more to pilots with 1000hr-2500hr, applying like crazy to Jazz.


"Just so you have an idea of the reception these new hires may get at Jazz, not one captain that I have talked to is in favour of this plan. In fact some have written letters to management in protest. Many have flown with 200hr wonders overseas and have said it basically reduced them to the role of babysitter most of the time."

I never said 2500hr pilots will be happy with Jazz's hiring decision. I would be if I was one of them. Now, about writing letters to management in protest?

Why is it? If we're all 200hr pilot, how can a, as you said,"more experienced pilot" be afraid to lose their jobs over a Seneca grad, which I'm sure will not be happening, since grads will only be for positions available.

"Many have flown with 200hr wonders overseas and have said it basically reduced them to the role of babysitter most of the time."

Again you're stereotyping, you're assuming every Seneca grad has the same attitude or potential. Remember we all have different abilities, the fact that I'll go to Seneca doesn't mean I'll become the kinda of person you think seneca students are, which I'm my opinion are very hard working guys.

"By the way, I have flown with your so called best trained graduates. Three of them to be exact. All of them thought they were gods gift to aviation and none of them could drive S**t through a funnel with a sledgehammer. They were arrogant little pricks that wouldn't listen to anything anyone had to say. Oh but they sure looked cool in their jackets!!

I have no doubt that there are some really good guys that have graduated from Seneca, unfortunately there are a number of complete idiots that have created the reputation all Seneca grads are now painted with."

glad you realized we are not all the same, there are a number of people with their foots on the ground, not building castles in the sand.


"You are just getting started in this industry so let me give you a little free advice. Nobody likes an arrogant pilot. Especially one that is just starting out."

Advice taken, and thanks for it. Believe me, going to Seneca will not make an arrogant person, or a better pilot, or a worst pilot, but my hard work and passion.

You take care and c ya around

I hope my English was good enough for your understanding

Cub you are just getting started in aviation and english isn't your first language so I'll cut you a bit of slack and try to explain things more clearly for you.
The idea you are arrogant comes from one of your earlier statements that Seneca pilots are the best trained. There are many quality flight schools in this country including Selkirk and Mt Royal in the west, Confederation and Sault college in Ontario and Moncton Flight College in the east. Not to mention the many great private flight training facilities (I apologise if I missed anyone, those are just the ones that came to mind) To say that Seneca grads are the best of all those schools is extremely arrogant.
You cannot compare the cadet programs in Europe and the ME with what you have at Seneca. Most cadet programs are run by the airlines (or by an outside agency for an airline) and the students are groomed from day one to fly their specific type for that specific airline. Having a couple of Jazz instructors and an RJ FTD doesn't quite qualify. Not to mention the difference in flying in Canada vs Europe or the ME. There are some places here that require a different skill set (circling at night at mins in some very tight mountainous areas for example)
I've never made any mention of a 200 hr pilot being a bad pilot. We all had 200hrs at one point. My comment was that until you actually start flying for a living you are not really qualified to make a comment on what makes a good pilot.
Since you obviously have no idea of why Jazz would hire cadets let me lay it out for you. There is no shortage of experienced guys applying to Jazz. However due to the low pay and lack of advancement, there is a growing shortage of experienced guys that are willing to STAY at Jazz. A growing percentage of new hires are leaving with in their first couple of years. Hiring cadets will stop that flow. Nobody is going to hire a guy with 700hrs of right seat Dash-8 or RJ time so if the cadet is unhappy he/she is stuck unless they are willing to take a step back to the bottom of the food chain again. Does that make more sense to you now?
The letters of protest are from guys that would rather see Jazz pay the newhires more and keep the experienced guys than hire cadets. This program could start us down a very slippery slope. ( I won't get into details as it is an internal issue but sufficed to say it wouldn't be good for the pilot group as a whole)

Green eyed monster? Are you trying to insinuate that I'm jealous of a program that will place 200hr guys in a Dash-8? "
Wow you had to use google for that one eh?
First of all, what is koolaid? I'm not even from Canada.


Resorting to insults? Maybe if you had used the aforementioned google, you would understand what I meant by my drinking the koolaid statement.(by the way it didn't originate in this county so not being from Canada is no excuse for your ignorance)
I hope what I'm saying is opening your eyes a bit to aviation in this county. Don't believe everything that the college staff tells you. You are NOT an aviation god because you graduated from a college program and have a cool jacket. A degree does NOT make you a better pilot. More educated yes, better pilot no. Flying is about 90% common sense. Something that cannot be taught, even by the best schools.

"To say that Seneca grads are the best of all those schools is extremely arrogant."

I never said that my friend, I just said, they were the best trained for Jazz's requirements. They get trained by pilots from Jazz and have an, although stationary, CRJ 200 Sim. No one of the colleges you mentioned before have this sort of training which is what Jazz is looking for. My "best trained" was referring to jet training, which is what Jazz is looking for and as said before no other college in canada has it. It is probably my fault for not being so good in English. Next time I'll be more careful.

"You cannot compare the cadet programs in Europe and the ME with what you have at Seneca. Most cadet programs are run by the airlines (or by an outside agency for an airline) and the students are groomed from day one to fly their specific type for that specific airline. Having a couple of Jazz instructors and an RJ FTD doesn't quite qualify. Not to mention the difference in flying in Canada vs Europe or the ME. There are some places here that require a different skill set (circling at night at mins in some very tight mountainous areas for example)"

You are somewhat right. However, at least this is a first try to see how it goes.You can't compare a program that is just starting now, with one that has successfully been going on for years

"Resorting to insults? Maybe if you had used the aforementioned google, you would understand what I meant by my drinking the koolaid statement.(by the way it didn't originate in this county so not being from Canada is no excuse for your ignorance)
I hope what I'm saying is opening your eyes a bit to aviation in this county. Don't believe everything that the college staff tells you. You are NOT an aviation god because you graduated from a college program and have a cool jacket. A degree does NOT make you a better pilot. More educated yes, better pilot no. Flying is about 90% common sense. Something that cannot be taught, even by the best schools."

I don't see how I have insult you, drinking koolaid still makes no sense to me. This time i used google. The fact that I don't know what koolaid is, makes me an ignorant?

Kinda funny, I haven't talked to any staff from Seneca nor have I believed everything I see or read on forums. I know I won't be an aviation god for going to Seneca(not hoping to be one), but I do believe that Seneca will prepare me better for the specific path I will like to follow.

CUB181.... Just to let you know that the degree at Seneca college is not a FULL University degree. It is an associate degree issued by a new hybrid type college that the government of Ontario has created. It will probably not be recognised in a lot of places around the world. If you are thinking of going back to Europe or wherever you are from then do re-think your position if you think it is a full degree.

Secondly, "BCFlyer" makes excellent points in his post and he knows exactly what he is talking about. Do listen to his points and his comments as they are invaluable.

Thirdly, just for your information, Confederation College is part of the Jazz cadet program. I know this first hand as I am currently at Confederation college. BCflyer is also correct when he says that we have some of the best flying in Canada. (Not to say anywhere else is less better). Confederation College has floats, skis, wheels and a Cessna 180 for training and the highest level simulator for a non-airline training facility in Canada. (Not sure about the new RJ sim).

You cannot compare the cadet schemes in Europe and the Middle East with the part-time after school activity that you will be having with an RJ sim. The European cadet schemes are a properly structured program and the pilots almost always have already been selected by the airline before training.

Seneca graduates do go through a tough and rigorous program and a lot of them come out of with a humble attitude not expecting the privilege of an Air Canada job with 200 hours. Unfortunately there are people such as yourself who will come out with that pompous attitude and make it very difficult for your friends to ever get a job in the industry later on in life. Having lived in Thunder Bay for two years and speaking with a number of the operators, a lot of them have mentioned that they will never again hire any Seneca students because of their arrogant attitude and their chip on their shoulder.

You also mentioned that it was much easier to get into Confederation College than in any of the other colleges in Ontario. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Just to let you know that I was accepted into Seneca College without even writing their entrance exam AND I was offered a scholarship and I was still on the waiting list at Confederation College.

I don't think any of our posts will change your mind, but experience in the industry will. Take advice from people who already are in the industry as their advice is indispensable.

ok guys thanks for all

Slight correction- I believe Viper specifically states to the contrary, in the classroom scene, and I quote

Viper: "That's pretty arrogant considering the company you're in."
Maverick: "Yes, sir"
Viper: "I like that in a pilot."
QED
(carry on)

Jazz Cadet Program
 

Just so you are aware, Jazz didn't pick a specific school for the cadet program. They went through CAAC which includes 8 schools in total. Selkirk and Mt Royal being a couple along with Seneca and Confederation.
www.caac.ca.
And it is true, all they are looking for is a total of 18 grads a year and will be picked from the 8 schools. The top applicants still have to meet the hiring requirements and pass a full sim ride. So no guarentee a job will come for the cadets. You will also sit right seat for minimum 6 years up to 10 years. Some guys who are right seat have 15 years and are just seeing upgrades to left seat!

" believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."

If seneca wasn't all that good - it would not be around. Some of the comments are typical intra-college rivallry. I don't sweat it. It will exist all the way to when I die - my airline is better than yours, my airplane is better than yours. Oh, you must be rich cause you drive a Hyundaihttp://www.aviation.ca/components/co...ons/tongue.png

It's not where I'm going or have been that counts, but who I am. So I'm just gonna be myself, and I'm sure Ill have a prosperous, and enjoyable time.

WOW this is getting a bit personal....nwyz CUB i need some help from you. Just today I receive a letter from Seneca and they want me to go and see them. I also got a paper with a few samples of Math and English questions. My question to you is how hard is the test? Please let me know as soon as you can, I'm suppost to go for this test on Tuesday.

Thank.

"WOW this is getting a bit personal....nwyz CUB i need some help from you. Just today I receive a letter from Seneca and they want me to go and see them. I also got a paper with a few samples of Math and English questions. My question to you is how hard is the test? Please let me know as soon as you can, I'm suppost to go for this test on Tuesday."

The test is not hard, the only thing I found hard was the timing. We're giving 60 English questions,and they were divided into two sections. As far as I remember one was language and the other one reading.

In math we had around 33 questions, and the majority of them were based on probabilities and geometry. The rest was common sense, I still remember they showed you a square with a coloured circle inside, and they asked you what % of the square was not coloured. There's no way that anyone can answer that question and be 100% accurate. That's why no matter what I can say to you, you'll need to use common sense to answer some questions.

My best advice will be to hurry up and don't waste time. See if you can jump ahead and do the math section once you finished the English one. Don't allow then to see that you're moving ahead of people or time by doing so. I remember lots of people exclaimed when we were told to put our pens down during the math part. There was just not enough time.

For what you're telling me, I guess lots of people failed the test and did not got accepted. Considering that when I did the test there were around 300 people on the room and they're still accepting students and making them pass tests.


the best of luck to you, and I'm looking forward meeting you at Seneca!!

Hey thanks a lot CUB. I will try my best to jump ahead if I finish the English section early. Hopefully I get in. I am really excited but at the same time really nervous because I don't know if I will do good or not.
So how would they let you know if you got in or no?

If you applied through ontariocolleges.ca you will receive your acceptance through them. Otherwise, they'll send you a package with your acceptance, a letter explaining the dress code, how much money it will cost the first semester and a whole bunch of other things.

Note that no matter how many people have applied but how many of those passed the test and had the marks to be included into the top 80s.Many people applied, yeah, but many of them do not have the requisites or did not pass the test. Do your best job man, and good luck once again.

:ok:

hey CUB have you done ur medical exam yet? if yes can you please tell me what to expect and how its all done. is it a bad to party 3 days before the medical exam?

-Moe

yes I did. It was done almost 3 weeks ago and it wasn't very rigorous. I had to pass an urine test, therefore, I think that through this they might check your alcohol level or something. As far as I know anything you drink will come out of your body being urine. They are going to check that, so be aware of it. They also make you an ECG to check your heart, check your breathing, hearing, eyes,measure the blood pressure, etc.

so if you ask me I wouldn't say it is good to party 3 days before the exam. Get it done first and then you can party all you want!!

do they tell u the results on that day or do they have to call couple of days after?

I only ask them how was everything with me, and they said it was great. I'm only waiting for Transport Canada to send me the certification, which shouldn't take more than a month.**I think so**

This should clear some doubts regarding the Degree offered at Seneca.

How does a college Bachelor's Degree in Applied Technology differ from a regular university bachelor's degree?

The college applied degree has the same level of academic rigour as a university degree, but applied degree programs of study are not available at any Ontario university and are designed to produce graduates who are immediately employable in a given occupation. The description of an applied degree provided by the Ontario government is as follows:


A bachelor's program in an applied area of study is normally designed to require a level of conceptual sophistication, specialized knowledge, and intellectual autonomy similar to that in an academically-oriented honours program but with the disciplinary content oriented to an occupational field of practice. Students in applied programs learn by doing, with a focus on preparing for entry into an occupational field of practice. Such programs incorporate a blend of theory and practice, and normally include a terminal project or other practice-based exercises intended to develop and demonstrate the student's readiness for employment in the occupational field of practice. In addition to personal and intellectual growth, the programs are primarily designed to prepare students for employment in the field of practice, second-entry professional degree programs, or, depending on the content of the program and the field, entry into either graduate study or bridging studies for an appropriate graduate program.



as a side note:

an honours degree is equivalent to 5 years of University and it is one step ahead of a regular 4 year bachelor degree.

CUB181,
just a little note. you are going to be in an industry where there is learning to be done and if you do not want to listen to the advise that others very freely give you, then things are going to be difficult for you. maybe viper likes his pilots to have arrogance, but it will make your life difficult in the long run as people tend to get along better with those who listen. no a 200hr pilot is not necessarily a bad pilot, but they are a pilot who has a great deal to learn and the best way to learn is to listen and learn from those who have done it.

hairdo