Underground
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From: Vancouver Island
Underground
I have just recently returned to Canada from overseas and am posting my experiences with Transport Canada on the new forum in Canada. www.underground.tc.ca
I suggest that everyone involved in Aviation read and think about what has transpired over the past several years between me, my company and Transport Canada Civil Aviation.
It just may give some of you things to worry about should you run afoul of a Government regulatory body, especially if you have done nothing wrong except refuse to be brutalized by a Government Aviation Inspector.
My last post can be found under General...the thread is ...Who are these people?
Chuck Ellsworth
I suggest that everyone involved in Aviation read and think about what has transpired over the past several years between me, my company and Transport Canada Civil Aviation.
It just may give some of you things to worry about should you run afoul of a Government regulatory body, especially if you have done nothing wrong except refuse to be brutalized by a Government Aviation Inspector.
My last post can be found under General...the thread is ...Who are these people?
Chuck Ellsworth
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 133
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From: Canada
Yes. I agree. It is well worth reading if you want to laugh your ass off!
That site is full of slanderous BS and totally ignorant rantings of people who don't understand what they are talking about or others who are trying to make an issue of perceived abuse.
As far as posting, I would recommend steering clear of that forum. I wouldn't want to be associated with these guys in any way, shape or form.
Of course Chuck is the band leader with his melodramatic accounting of noting in particular. One day maybe he'll come right out and tell us all what exactly his beef with TC is. In the mean time we'll have to settle for the unsubstantiated slander!
This is better than "As the World Turns" but without the sex!
That site is full of slanderous BS and totally ignorant rantings of people who don't understand what they are talking about or others who are trying to make an issue of perceived abuse.
As far as posting, I would recommend steering clear of that forum. I wouldn't want to be associated with these guys in any way, shape or form.
Of course Chuck is the band leader with his melodramatic accounting of noting in particular. One day maybe he'll come right out and tell us all what exactly his beef with TC is. In the mean time we'll have to settle for the unsubstantiated slander!
This is better than "As the World Turns" but without the sex!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Vancouver Island
Thank you STC:
I was hoping someone would bring this thread back in use.
So now that you are back commenting on my posts in www.underground.tc.ca , how about answering a simple question.
Merlin Preuss and Robert Sincennes state very clearly that they agree with a letter written by the former Director General of Civil Aviation for Canada, Art LaFlamme. His statement was.
" Concerning your continued dissatisfaction towards Messrs. Nowzek and Murray, I find their handling of this matter has been quite satisfactory and they have my full support. "
Now here is the question STC, based on the findings of Transport Canada's inquiry into my allegations, that my allegations were in fact true, how come neither Merlin Preuss nor Robert Sincennes have reversed their positions? Remember these are two of the top people in Transport Canada , stating clearly that they approve of their subordinates missusing the power of their office.
This investigation was paid for by the taxpayer, it took almost five months to complete and the findings supported my allegations.
You are stating that I am slandering these people, hmmmm, lets see now, if what I am stating is in fact untrue then they should bring me in front of the courts to determine just where the truth lies.
Unless of course the truth has no place in the administration of how Transport Canada Civil Aviation regulates their client, the industry. What do you think STC? Is the truth of any real importance if as it would seem they have the power to do what ever they wish? Do you feel that denial of due process and vindictive missuse of a position of power within a body such as Transport Canada Civil Aviation is " Quite satisfactory " ????
Once again STC thank you for regenerating this thread and keeping everyones intrest up.......
Please do me a favour STC, give Merlin Preuss and Robert Sincennes a call and encourage them to respond to my allegations.
Chuck
I was hoping someone would bring this thread back in use.
So now that you are back commenting on my posts in www.underground.tc.ca , how about answering a simple question.
Merlin Preuss and Robert Sincennes state very clearly that they agree with a letter written by the former Director General of Civil Aviation for Canada, Art LaFlamme. His statement was.
" Concerning your continued dissatisfaction towards Messrs. Nowzek and Murray, I find their handling of this matter has been quite satisfactory and they have my full support. "
Now here is the question STC, based on the findings of Transport Canada's inquiry into my allegations, that my allegations were in fact true, how come neither Merlin Preuss nor Robert Sincennes have reversed their positions? Remember these are two of the top people in Transport Canada , stating clearly that they approve of their subordinates missusing the power of their office.
This investigation was paid for by the taxpayer, it took almost five months to complete and the findings supported my allegations.
You are stating that I am slandering these people, hmmmm, lets see now, if what I am stating is in fact untrue then they should bring me in front of the courts to determine just where the truth lies.
Unless of course the truth has no place in the administration of how Transport Canada Civil Aviation regulates their client, the industry. What do you think STC? Is the truth of any real importance if as it would seem they have the power to do what ever they wish? Do you feel that denial of due process and vindictive missuse of a position of power within a body such as Transport Canada Civil Aviation is " Quite satisfactory " ????
Once again STC thank you for regenerating this thread and keeping everyones intrest up.......
Please do me a favour STC, give Merlin Preuss and Robert Sincennes a call and encourage them to respond to my allegations.
Chuck
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 5th August 2003 at 23:05.
Thread Starter
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From: Vancouver Island
Geese:
You seem to be unable to read, I think it is all outlined in my posts in the Underground.
But I feel that it is only fair for me to give you all the facts surrounding my problems with the Pacific Region Maintenance and Manufacturing, so e-mail me and I shall e-mail you the complete investigation and findings of Transport Canada's report. I have it in MS word as sent to me by the Acting Regional Director General, Transport Canada. The very person who ordered and paid for the report. Then again maybe the intervention of someone at his level in my problem with TC Civil Aviation is just another example of how unimportant this whole thing really is?
If you are not willing or interested in really finding out exactly what all this is about then of course your comments here have no validity.
Have a nice day STC.
Chuck
You seem to be unable to read, I think it is all outlined in my posts in the Underground.
But I feel that it is only fair for me to give you all the facts surrounding my problems with the Pacific Region Maintenance and Manufacturing, so e-mail me and I shall e-mail you the complete investigation and findings of Transport Canada's report. I have it in MS word as sent to me by the Acting Regional Director General, Transport Canada. The very person who ordered and paid for the report. Then again maybe the intervention of someone at his level in my problem with TC Civil Aviation is just another example of how unimportant this whole thing really is?
If you are not willing or interested in really finding out exactly what all this is about then of course your comments here have no validity.
Have a nice day STC.
Chuck
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Vancouver Island
STC:
If you really wish to assure that the Regulator in this case Civil Aviation are being managed by people that are morally acceptable, for instance people who will ensure that those under them adhere to the claims made in the Transport Canada Quality Assurance web site.
http://www.tc.ca/CivilAviation/Quali...ementation.htm
What are your thoughts regarding the position taken by Merlin Preuss, Director General Civil Aviation and Robert Sincennes, the head of Quality Assurance, wherein they both state that the actions of the Pacific Region Managers named in my complaint is " Quite satisfactory " and they both " fully support" their actions.
Are we to assume that the investigation paid for by tax payer dollars that found the named people in the Pacific Region did "not" in fact conduct their handling of my company in a fair manner and that it was proven they denied me due process, is just not worth bothering about?
Come on STC convince me that these people even come close to assuring that the claims made in the Quality Assurance web site are nothing more than B.S. to make it look like they really do assure we are treated fairly.
Hmmmm: I can't get the TC link to work. Anyhow Transport Canada has a Quality Assurance web site and if you wish to look at it go to the underground site and the link is on page one in "General" the thread is "who are these people? "
Chuck
If you really wish to assure that the Regulator in this case Civil Aviation are being managed by people that are morally acceptable, for instance people who will ensure that those under them adhere to the claims made in the Transport Canada Quality Assurance web site.
http://www.tc.ca/CivilAviation/Quali...ementation.htm
What are your thoughts regarding the position taken by Merlin Preuss, Director General Civil Aviation and Robert Sincennes, the head of Quality Assurance, wherein they both state that the actions of the Pacific Region Managers named in my complaint is " Quite satisfactory " and they both " fully support" their actions.
Are we to assume that the investigation paid for by tax payer dollars that found the named people in the Pacific Region did "not" in fact conduct their handling of my company in a fair manner and that it was proven they denied me due process, is just not worth bothering about?
Come on STC convince me that these people even come close to assuring that the claims made in the Quality Assurance web site are nothing more than B.S. to make it look like they really do assure we are treated fairly.
Hmmmm: I can't get the TC link to work. Anyhow Transport Canada has a Quality Assurance web site and if you wish to look at it go to the underground site and the link is on page one in "General" the thread is "who are these people? "
Chuck
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 8th August 2003 at 08:45.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 133
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From: Canada
I have absolutely no desire to follow up on your claims Chuck. I did a bit of checking and pretty much anyone that I asked that knows you warned me to steer clear.
You seem to have built yourself quite a reputation. Whether or not TC was guilty of whatever you claim them to be guilty of, I'm convinced that the entire matter has been blown out of proportion by actions on both sides.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with TC that can't be addressed using the appropriate existing channels. However, the actions of a few shady characters in this industry bring out the worst in the regulators.
If TC pursued the wrong-doings of operators in this country as vigorously as you are pursuing this obsession you have with this one incident (whatever it is exactly), the industry would grind to a halt.
You seem to have built yourself quite a reputation. Whether or not TC was guilty of whatever you claim them to be guilty of, I'm convinced that the entire matter has been blown out of proportion by actions on both sides.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with TC that can't be addressed using the appropriate existing channels. However, the actions of a few shady characters in this industry bring out the worst in the regulators.
If TC pursued the wrong-doings of operators in this country as vigorously as you are pursuing this obsession you have with this one incident (whatever it is exactly), the industry would grind to a halt.
Last edited by STC; 8th August 2003 at 11:13.
Thread Starter
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From: Vancouver Island
Hey STC:
You are weasling round the issue.
But I'll give you a chance to show everyone just what a shady character I am.
Post one, just one instance of anything shady that I have done during my flying career, however STC remember it has to be something that you can show proof that it is a true acusation, not just the kind of crap you just posted.
Now you let all these nice people here on Pprune examine your description of me and we shall see who they believe.
Back to my origional question, do you think that the position taken by Merlin Preuss and Robert sincennes is acceptable for people in charge of Civil Aviation in Canada? Remember I have in writing that they approve of and support what the guys in Vancouver did. In spite of what the Transport Canada investigation found, which was quite straight foward, my allegations of wrongdoing by their top management in Vancouver was found to be true. They missused the power of their office.
Or is your position based on the assumption that I am such a shady character that the managers in the Pacific Region were forced to deny me the same rights as any other Canadian citizen applying for an Aviation Certificate?
By the way, any idea of what all this will eventually cost TC to rectify their actions? Beause even you must be bright enough to figure out this is going to be expensive for TC.
This was not just some little missunderstanding by their top guys in Vancouver, it was a deliberate well thought out action that took months for them to financially ruin my business rather than admit they had made a mistake in the very beginning. What makes this incredible is the fact that the top guys in Ottawa will not reverse their decision to back these guys in Vancouver.
Rather they just let guys like you post on a world wide site like Pprune and post garbage like you do that just keeps this front and center. ...yup you are really making Transport Canada look good. And you are really making the Ottawa guys look even better.
Oh, by the way STC, I followed the proper proceedures when I requested that Transport Canada investigate my allegations of wrongdoing by theVancouver Managers that were named in the complaint, the record is very clear on that issue.
I would like to make another little comment STC, I am quite open about who I am, I feel secure enough in going public with my allegations against some of TC's people that I have no problem with anyone on earth knowing who I am. In fact I bet there are quite a few readng this even in England who know me personally.
What does that say about me? Shady??? naw I don't think so.
Who are you?
Chuck Ellsworth
You are weasling round the issue.
But I'll give you a chance to show everyone just what a shady character I am.
Post one, just one instance of anything shady that I have done during my flying career, however STC remember it has to be something that you can show proof that it is a true acusation, not just the kind of crap you just posted.
Now you let all these nice people here on Pprune examine your description of me and we shall see who they believe.
Back to my origional question, do you think that the position taken by Merlin Preuss and Robert sincennes is acceptable for people in charge of Civil Aviation in Canada? Remember I have in writing that they approve of and support what the guys in Vancouver did. In spite of what the Transport Canada investigation found, which was quite straight foward, my allegations of wrongdoing by their top management in Vancouver was found to be true. They missused the power of their office.
Or is your position based on the assumption that I am such a shady character that the managers in the Pacific Region were forced to deny me the same rights as any other Canadian citizen applying for an Aviation Certificate?
By the way, any idea of what all this will eventually cost TC to rectify their actions? Beause even you must be bright enough to figure out this is going to be expensive for TC.
This was not just some little missunderstanding by their top guys in Vancouver, it was a deliberate well thought out action that took months for them to financially ruin my business rather than admit they had made a mistake in the very beginning. What makes this incredible is the fact that the top guys in Ottawa will not reverse their decision to back these guys in Vancouver.
Rather they just let guys like you post on a world wide site like Pprune and post garbage like you do that just keeps this front and center. ...yup you are really making Transport Canada look good. And you are really making the Ottawa guys look even better.
Oh, by the way STC, I followed the proper proceedures when I requested that Transport Canada investigate my allegations of wrongdoing by theVancouver Managers that were named in the complaint, the record is very clear on that issue.
I would like to make another little comment STC, I am quite open about who I am, I feel secure enough in going public with my allegations against some of TC's people that I have no problem with anyone on earth knowing who I am. In fact I bet there are quite a few readng this even in England who know me personally.
What does that say about me? Shady??? naw I don't think so.
Who are you?
Chuck Ellsworth
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 8th August 2003 at 12:03.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 170
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From: canada
And again STC you do nothing but try to stir up sh!t. P!ss off and let Chuck have his day.
I hope Chuck ends up getting to the bottom of his plight, and others will not have to go through the problems he has. That is what this is all about.
There is no need for you to go on about this issue. There are always going to be people in a position of authority trying to exploit it, and there are always going to be people who are on the recieving end.
So STC give this badgering up, quit stirring up things that you have no first hand knowledge of. If you ever had a problem in your career that you couldn't resolve, due to issues beyond your control, you would then understand what Chuck is saying, and why he is saying it.
As I have posted before, I have had a run in with a TC Nazi, and it has upset me. But I do not think that all the regulators are bad. Just the one I had a problem with. Talk to almost anyone in the industry, and you will find out that at one time or another they had a disagreement with a regulator over some issue. This industry is safe because of the people in the industry. Everyone must work together to ensure the safety of our industry. But when it comes to a regulator using his/her power to manipulate your career, that is not in the best interest of the industry.
What do you contibute to this discussion STC? You have said that you don't want to get to the bottom of the issue that Chuck has with TC, so why must you continue to hurl insults to a man that you don't know, about an issue you have no knowledge?
Grow up STC.
I hope Chuck ends up getting to the bottom of his plight, and others will not have to go through the problems he has. That is what this is all about.
There is no need for you to go on about this issue. There are always going to be people in a position of authority trying to exploit it, and there are always going to be people who are on the recieving end.
So STC give this badgering up, quit stirring up things that you have no first hand knowledge of. If you ever had a problem in your career that you couldn't resolve, due to issues beyond your control, you would then understand what Chuck is saying, and why he is saying it.
As I have posted before, I have had a run in with a TC Nazi, and it has upset me. But I do not think that all the regulators are bad. Just the one I had a problem with. Talk to almost anyone in the industry, and you will find out that at one time or another they had a disagreement with a regulator over some issue. This industry is safe because of the people in the industry. Everyone must work together to ensure the safety of our industry. But when it comes to a regulator using his/her power to manipulate your career, that is not in the best interest of the industry.
What do you contibute to this discussion STC? You have said that you don't want to get to the bottom of the issue that Chuck has with TC, so why must you continue to hurl insults to a man that you don't know, about an issue you have no knowledge?
Grow up STC.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 133
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From: Canada
This industry is safe because of the people in the industry.
That's a joke. If it wasn't for TC, we would have many many more instances of accidents attributed to shady operators and their will to make money at the expense of safety.
Just look at the airworthiness authority in most African and South American countries and the corresponding safety records.
Many who have run-ins with TC just don't make an effort to understand the regulations. Just look at the majority of posts on the "Underground". There's one about the outrage one guy feels that TCCA can revoke a license. That person needs to look up "license" in the dictionary, then review the CARS.
Then there's Phil Lister, launching personal attacks on a particular MDM because of some bad experience he had. Based on Phil's posts I am confident that it was Phil's ignorance that led to his difficulty. More evidence of this is his attack on CAMC. An organisation that really has very little to do with TC. And even OSH gets slagged!
One of the best, most entertaining posts is one from AVT007 who tells the world that TCCA inspections are a joke.....because the airline he works for has too much warning and hides all the dangerous stuff before the inspectors show up! Hilarious!
The "underground" is full of clowns that don't understand the regulations and are frustrated by the processes that they fear because they don't understand them.
It's always fun to rise up against a foe...even if it's all in your head. So keep it up. The "Underground" continues to be a source of enjoyment for me. I wish there was more activity though. I could use a good laugh!
That's a joke. If it wasn't for TC, we would have many many more instances of accidents attributed to shady operators and their will to make money at the expense of safety.
Just look at the airworthiness authority in most African and South American countries and the corresponding safety records.
Many who have run-ins with TC just don't make an effort to understand the regulations. Just look at the majority of posts on the "Underground". There's one about the outrage one guy feels that TCCA can revoke a license. That person needs to look up "license" in the dictionary, then review the CARS.
Then there's Phil Lister, launching personal attacks on a particular MDM because of some bad experience he had. Based on Phil's posts I am confident that it was Phil's ignorance that led to his difficulty. More evidence of this is his attack on CAMC. An organisation that really has very little to do with TC. And even OSH gets slagged!
One of the best, most entertaining posts is one from AVT007 who tells the world that TCCA inspections are a joke.....because the airline he works for has too much warning and hides all the dangerous stuff before the inspectors show up! Hilarious!
The "underground" is full of clowns that don't understand the regulations and are frustrated by the processes that they fear because they don't understand them.
It's always fun to rise up against a foe...even if it's all in your head. So keep it up. The "Underground" continues to be a source of enjoyment for me. I wish there was more activity though. I could use a good laugh!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5
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From: Canada
Hmmmm....I would venture a bet and say STC is employeed by Transport Canada. Note the letters "TC" in his user name and his vigorous defense of Transport Canada. Maybe a wannabe pilot who never made it a one and now works for TC ?? How bout it STC.....tell us who you are.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 133
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From: Canada
Nope. Not a TC employee. Vigorous defense? I'm not defending TC. Just laughing at the clowns who post in the "underground"!
Note the letters "VD" in your name VooDoo222. Does it suggest any underlying conditions we (or potential mates) should know about?
Note the letters "VD" in your name VooDoo222. Does it suggest any underlying conditions we (or potential mates) should know about?
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5
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From: Canada
Good come-back dopey. I still think you're a TC employee. If you ever have the balls to one day tell us who you are then maybe you can prove me wrong. I doubt that will ever happen cuz it appears you have no balls
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 133
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From: Canada
VD,
No balls? What kind of talk is that? I wonder what the women in this forum think of remarks like that. Did you ever stop to think I might be a woman and I in fact have never had balls?
Even though I am not a TC employee, I don't see what difference that would make. Do you assume that all TC employees are bad? Or inept? Do you therefore assume that everyone in the industry outside TC are honest and and intelligent?
You're just about as funny as the guys on the "underground". Maybe you should post a few comments on there!
No balls? What kind of talk is that? I wonder what the women in this forum think of remarks like that. Did you ever stop to think I might be a woman and I in fact have never had balls?
Even though I am not a TC employee, I don't see what difference that would make. Do you assume that all TC employees are bad? Or inept? Do you therefore assume that everyone in the industry outside TC are honest and and intelligent?
You're just about as funny as the guys on the "underground". Maybe you should post a few comments on there!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Vancouver Island
There was someone posting under the name of Airplay on several other forums.
STC seems to be either the same person or an exact clone thereof.
Just a cursory reading of his posts will show that he is a windup artist who just likes to push peoples buttons.
However he does entertain and also keeps subjects going.
As to the quality of his claims and comments....well just read his past posts and I'm sure the pattern will be obvious, he is not credible, period.
Would I personally wish to associate with him???? or work with him????
Chuck Ellsworth
STC seems to be either the same person or an exact clone thereof.
Just a cursory reading of his posts will show that he is a windup artist who just likes to push peoples buttons.
However he does entertain and also keeps subjects going.
As to the quality of his claims and comments....well just read his past posts and I'm sure the pattern will be obvious, he is not credible, period.
Would I personally wish to associate with him???? or work with him????
Chuck Ellsworth
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Would I personally wish to associate with him???? or work with him????
Thanks for raising the questions Chuckie. I sincerely hope your answer is no.
Just for the record, based on what I have learned, I have absolutely no desire to be associated with Charles (Chuck) Ellsworth. (Beyond entertainment purposes)
Thanks for raising the questions Chuckie. I sincerely hope your answer is no.
Just for the record, based on what I have learned, I have absolutely no desire to be associated with Charles (Chuck) Ellsworth. (Beyond entertainment purposes)
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 170
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From: canada
Well STC have you ever looked at some of the people that do maintenance or fly a/c in third world countries? Most are illiterate and dumber than even you. I have, because I have worked in a few third world countries.
As I posted before it is because of the people in our industry that makes it safe. I include regulators and the guy who sweeps the floor in the people of this industry. But I must make mention that when I talk about safety in our industry, I refer to western world operations.
Back to the topic, I think the underground site is a good thing for people to voice concerns over their industry without fear of repercusions from the regulators or their employers.
It is monkeys like you STC that there are problems in the industry. Your lack of understanding or interest of getting to the bottom of a problem is the problem. As to your lack of balls, I must agree that you don't have any balls. As to if you have testicles, I really don't care, as ignorance and stupidity are gender neutral.
Again I say grow up you peanut brained nitt witt.
As I posted before it is because of the people in our industry that makes it safe. I include regulators and the guy who sweeps the floor in the people of this industry. But I must make mention that when I talk about safety in our industry, I refer to western world operations.
Back to the topic, I think the underground site is a good thing for people to voice concerns over their industry without fear of repercusions from the regulators or their employers.
It is monkeys like you STC that there are problems in the industry. Your lack of understanding or interest of getting to the bottom of a problem is the problem. As to your lack of balls, I must agree that you don't have any balls. As to if you have testicles, I really don't care, as ignorance and stupidity are gender neutral.
Again I say grow up you peanut brained nitt witt.