Pilot shortage - How are airlines coping?
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Toronto, Ontario
Pilot shortage - How are airlines coping?
With proposed regulatory changes to duty times and prevalent pilot shortages, one would reckon pay scales for low-time FOs would improve. Any idea where they're at? 
Last I heard, Air Georgian FOs make around 30k annually;
Encore's open-house indicated approx. $47/ hour to prospective FOs. Not sure if these are factual, so thought I'd ask!
Last I heard, Air Georgian FOs make around 30k annually;
Encore's open-house indicated approx. $47/ hour to prospective FOs. Not sure if these are factual, so thought I'd ask!
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Great White North
How are airlines coping?
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: planet earth
I am out of the business now but only recently; things were only starting to improve for newcomers when I left, then things went crazy. It's only been a short time since the shortage began when you think of it.
So the mainline carriers are not experiencing a shortage. I think it is stating the obvious, the two main carriers get much of their feed from their feeder airlines, and have at least some relevant experience. There is also a minority who go straight to mainline in at least one of the airlines, the other one I am not sure. The job is attractive enough to attract people with some background who would otherwise choose to stay where they are.
So that promise of a shot at the big times (and eventual big paychecks) still seems to be enough to attract people to crew their airplanes. I know of one person with very little time, and I mean very little time, that was taken on by one of the feeders, spent about 3 years there, and was taken on to the mainline carrier, right seat in a widebody no less. Not everyone gets on of course, but it is still enough incentive to attract people.
Not the ideal situation I know, but it is what it is.
So the mainline carriers are not experiencing a shortage. I think it is stating the obvious, the two main carriers get much of their feed from their feeder airlines, and have at least some relevant experience. There is also a minority who go straight to mainline in at least one of the airlines, the other one I am not sure. The job is attractive enough to attract people with some background who would otherwise choose to stay where they are.
So that promise of a shot at the big times (and eventual big paychecks) still seems to be enough to attract people to crew their airplanes. I know of one person with very little time, and I mean very little time, that was taken on by one of the feeders, spent about 3 years there, and was taken on to the mainline carrier, right seat in a widebody no less. Not everyone gets on of course, but it is still enough incentive to attract people.
Not the ideal situation I know, but it is what it is.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: USA
Air Georgian has written a letter to the Canadian aviation industry about pilot supply solutions:
Air Georgian | Air Georgian Writes Open Letter to Canadian Aviation Industry
Air Georgian | Air Georgian Writes Open Letter to Canadian Aviation Industry
Last edited by bafanguy; 2nd August 2018 at 18:09.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: USA
Encouraging Canadian CFIs:
Jazz Further Supports Seneca With Flight Instructor Bursary Program | Aero-News Network
Jazz Further Supports Seneca With Flight Instructor Bursary Program | Aero-News Network
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Canadian Shield
Make the most of it... If Homo Deus (a brief history of tomorrow) is anything like accurate, Pilots will follow the man walking in front of a car with a red flag within the next decade.
"Ostler! Ready my horses! I'm going into town!"
"Ostler! Ready my horses! I'm going into town!"
Joined: May 2004
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From: Ташкент
Ahhaa I recall the late 90's when you were lucky to get onto a twotter.... and if you did you were stuck there.... for life..... that's why I left.... looks like not much has changed.
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: British Columbia
The pilot shortage means lowering qualifications, and letting low timers skip ramp and northern duty by sticking them straight into a Dash for what they would have made right seat in a Navajo.
For those like me still in the 703/704 world, it’s meant large adjustments in pay and benefits for the purposes of retention, fast upgrades, and difficulty finding people.
For those like me still in the 703/704 world, it’s meant large adjustments in pay and benefits for the purposes of retention, fast upgrades, and difficulty finding people.
Joined: Sep 2018
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From: Edmonton
So, doesn't it make sense if you are 35, have a family, full time job but still desiring to be a pilot by getting some loans for education/training? I'm so confused of starting for a new career, spending that much time for training especially after I heard these kind of issues about airlines.
I am out of the business now but only recently; things were only starting to improve for newcomers when I left, then things went crazy. It's only been a short time since the shortage began when you think of it.
So the mainline carriers are not experiencing a shortage. I think it is stating the obvious, the two main carriers get much of their feed from their feeder airlines, and have at least some relevant experience. There is also a minority who go straight to mainline in at least one of the airlines, the other one I am not sure. The job is attractive enough to attract people with some background who would otherwise choose to stay where they are.
So that promise of a shot at the big times (and eventual big paychecks) still seems to be enough to attract people to crew their airplanes. I know of one person with very little time, and I mean very little time, that was taken on by one of the feeders, spent about 3 years there, and was taken on to the mainline carrier, right seat in a widebody no less. Not everyone gets on of course, but it is still enough incentive to attract people.
Not the ideal situation I know, but it is what it is.
So the mainline carriers are not experiencing a shortage. I think it is stating the obvious, the two main carriers get much of their feed from their feeder airlines, and have at least some relevant experience. There is also a minority who go straight to mainline in at least one of the airlines, the other one I am not sure. The job is attractive enough to attract people with some background who would otherwise choose to stay where they are.
So that promise of a shot at the big times (and eventual big paychecks) still seems to be enough to attract people to crew their airplanes. I know of one person with very little time, and I mean very little time, that was taken on by one of the feeders, spent about 3 years there, and was taken on to the mainline carrier, right seat in a widebody no less. Not everyone gets on of course, but it is still enough incentive to attract people.
Not the ideal situation I know, but it is what it is.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: USA
Might also ask how the RCAF is dealing with a pilot shortage. This has a familiar ring to it:
“The RCAF is also dealing with a pilot shortage, with only 64% of the trained CF-18 pilots it needs to meet its commitments, says the Auditor General. However, National Defence is unlikely to be able to close the gap because pilots are also leaving the fighter force faster than new ones could be trained, the report says.“
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...nnel-s-453792/
“The RCAF is also dealing with a pilot shortage, with only 64% of the trained CF-18 pilots it needs to meet its commitments, says the Auditor General. However, National Defence is unlikely to be able to close the gap because pilots are also leaving the fighter force faster than new ones could be trained, the report says.“
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...nnel-s-453792/
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: USA
Probably so but I'm not sure a government entity has the ability to do much of that.
Heck, I'm also not sure civilian aviation entities see the need to do that.
The wheels just keep on turning regardless.
Heck, I'm also not sure civilian aviation entities see the need to do that.
The wheels just keep on turning regardless.
Last edited by bafanguy; 24th November 2018 at 14:47.
Joined: Feb 2017
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From: Canuckland
The pay..... certainly agree with you.
Terms and conditions..... I believe TC can play a pivotal role in that. Better flight duty regs is a great start. Operators look at any duty regs as targets rather than limits. And they do find inventive ways to even push those limits.
Give the regulations more teeth and zero leeway for abuse and hopefully things will improve and make flying a viable and sustainable career and attract much needed man(person)power.
Terms and conditions..... I believe TC can play a pivotal role in that. Better flight duty regs is a great start. Operators look at any duty regs as targets rather than limits. And they do find inventive ways to even push those limits.
Give the regulations more teeth and zero leeway for abuse and hopefully things will improve and make flying a viable and sustainable career and attract much needed man(person)power.
Drain Bamaged
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Earth
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: USA
The USAF is facing a very similar (if not identical) situation. And they've thrown retention bonus after retention bonus at their pilot group without desired results. Now they're allegedly "improving" the lifestyle situation in hopes of convincing people to stay. Time will tell.
There's only so much the military can do because ultimately the needs of the service supersede the wishes of the individual.
We'll see...
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4
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From: Australia
Apparently, it didn't achieve the desired result according to the article I posted; pilots are still leaving faster than their replacements can be trained.
The USAF is facing a very similar (if not identical) situation. And they've thrown retention bonus after retention bonus at their pilot group without desired results. Now they're allegedly "improving" the lifestyle situation in hopes of convincing people to stay. Time will tell.
There's only so much the military can do because ultimately the needs of the service supersede the wishes of the individual.
We'll see...
The USAF is facing a very similar (if not identical) situation. And they've thrown retention bonus after retention bonus at their pilot group without desired results. Now they're allegedly "improving" the lifestyle situation in hopes of convincing people to stay. Time will tell.
There's only so much the military can do because ultimately the needs of the service supersede the wishes of the individual.
We'll see...
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 141
Likes: 15
From: yyz
Pay is only part of it. The puzzle palace likes moving people around. So expect a move every 2-4 years. I want my kids to have a stable life, ever try being the new kid in school sometimes in the same year?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 213
Likes: 8
From: Great White North
With proposed regulatory changes to duty times and prevalent pilot shortages, one would reckon pay scales for low-time FOs would improve. Any idea where they're at?
Last I heard, Air Georgian FOs make around 30k annually; Encore's open-house indicated approx. $47/ hour to prospective FOs. Not sure if these are factual, so thought I'd ask!
Last I heard, Air Georgian FOs make around 30k annually;
Encore's open-house indicated approx. $47/ hour to prospective FOs. Not sure if these are factual, so thought I'd ask!Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Here's a recent program...not many details:
"CAE creates over 1,500 new pilots yearly over 30 cadet training programs globally, and we are thrilled to add a first Canadian cadet pilot training program to our list of curricula," said Nick Leontidis, CAE’s Group president, Civil Aviation Training Solutions.
CAE, Jazz And Seneca Launch First Cadet Pilot Training Program In Canada | Aero-News Network
"CAE creates over 1,500 new pilots yearly over 30 cadet training programs globally, and we are thrilled to add a first Canadian cadet pilot training program to our list of curricula," said Nick Leontidis, CAE’s Group president, Civil Aviation Training Solutions.
CAE, Jazz And Seneca Launch First Cadet Pilot Training Program In Canada | Aero-News Network
