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Pilot shortage - How are airlines coping?

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Pilot shortage - How are airlines coping?

Old 14th May 2018, 20:37
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Question Pilot shortage - How are airlines coping?

With proposed regulatory changes to duty times and prevalent pilot shortages, one would reckon pay scales for low-time FOs would improve. Any idea where they're at?
Last I heard, Air Georgian FOs make around 30k annually; Encore's open-house indicated approx. $47/ hour to prospective FOs. Not sure if these are factual, so thought I'd ask!
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Old 16th May 2018, 02:50
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How are airlines coping?
The airlines are coping by trying to cut wages by 40% or more and reducing quality of life by having you work more days. It makes perfect sense if you don't think about it.
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Old 16th May 2018, 23:18
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JV
 
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I am out of the business now but only recently; things were only starting to improve for newcomers when I left, then things went crazy. It's only been a short time since the shortage began when you think of it.

So the mainline carriers are not experiencing a shortage. I think it is stating the obvious, the two main carriers get much of their feed from their feeder airlines, and have at least some relevant experience. There is also a minority who go straight to mainline in at least one of the airlines, the other one I am not sure. The job is attractive enough to attract people with some background who would otherwise choose to stay where they are.

So that promise of a shot at the big times (and eventual big paychecks) still seems to be enough to attract people to crew their airplanes. I know of one person with very little time, and I mean very little time, that was taken on by one of the feeders, spent about 3 years there, and was taken on to the mainline carrier, right seat in a widebody no less. Not everyone gets on of course, but it is still enough incentive to attract people.

Not the ideal situation I know, but it is what it is.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 17:07
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Air Georgian has written a letter to the Canadian aviation industry about pilot supply solutions:

Air Georgian | Air Georgian Writes Open Letter to Canadian Aviation Industry

Last edited by bafanguy; 2nd Aug 2018 at 19:09.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 08:57
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Encouraging Canadian CFIs:

Jazz Further Supports Seneca With Flight Instructor Bursary Program | Aero-News Network
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 13:05
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Make the most of it... If Homo Deus (a brief history of tomorrow) is anything like accurate, Pilots will follow the man walking in front of a car with a red flag within the next decade.

"Ostler! Ready my horses! I'm going into town!"
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Old 30th Oct 2018, 00:30
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Ahhaa I recall the late 90's when you were lucky to get onto a twotter.... and if you did you were stuck there.... for life..... that's why I left.... looks like not much has changed.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 04:45
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The pilot shortage means lowering qualifications, and letting low timers skip ramp and northern duty by sticking them straight into a Dash for what they would have made right seat in a Navajo.

For those like me still in the 703/704 world, itís meant large adjustments in pay and benefits for the purposes of retention, fast upgrades, and difficulty finding people.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 18:05
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So, doesn't it make sense if you are 35, have a family, full time job but still desiring to be a pilot by getting some loans for education/training? I'm so confused of starting for a new career, spending that much time for training especially after I heard these kind of issues about airlines.

Originally Posted by JV View Post
I am out of the business now but only recently; things were only starting to improve for newcomers when I left, then things went crazy. It's only been a short time since the shortage began when you think of it.

So the mainline carriers are not experiencing a shortage. I think it is stating the obvious, the two main carriers get much of their feed from their feeder airlines, and have at least some relevant experience. There is also a minority who go straight to mainline in at least one of the airlines, the other one I am not sure. The job is attractive enough to attract people with some background who would otherwise choose to stay where they are.

So that promise of a shot at the big times (and eventual big paychecks) still seems to be enough to attract people to crew their airplanes. I know of one person with very little time, and I mean very little time, that was taken on by one of the feeders, spent about 3 years there, and was taken on to the mainline carrier, right seat in a widebody no less. Not everyone gets on of course, but it is still enough incentive to attract people.

Not the ideal situation I know, but it is what it is.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 11:17
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Might also ask how the RCAF is dealing with a pilot shortage. This has a familiar ring to it:

“The RCAF is also dealing with a pilot shortage, with only 64% of the trained CF-18 pilots it needs to meet its commitments, says the Auditor General. However, National Defence is unlikely to be able to close the gap because pilots are also leaving the fighter force faster than new ones could be trained, the report says.“

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...nnel-s-453792/
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 04:47
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Improve your pay and T&Cs and the problem will simply go away.
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 14:46
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Originally Posted by FalseGS View Post
Improve your pay and T&Cs...
Probably so but I'm not sure a government entity has the ability to do much of that.

Heck, I'm also not sure civilian aviation entities see the need to do that.

The wheels just keep on turning regardless.

Last edited by bafanguy; 24th Nov 2018 at 15:47.
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 17:08
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The pay..... certainly agree with you.

Terms and conditions..... I believe TC can play a pivotal role in that. Better flight duty regs is a great start. Operators look at any duty regs as targets rather than limits. And they do find inventive ways to even push those limits.
Give the regulations more teeth and zero leeway for abuse and hopefully things will improve and make flying a viable and sustainable career and attract much needed man(person)power.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 14:28
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
Probably so but I'm not sure a government entity has the ability to do much of that.
I don't remember when exactly but the CAF/RCAF did substantially raise their CF-18's pilot salary some years ago as incentive to stay.

So yes, a government can do it.
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 09:21
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Originally Posted by ehwatezedoing View Post
... CAF/RCAF did substantially raise their CF-18's pilot salary some years ago as incentive to stay.

So yes, a government can do it.
Apparently, it didn't achieve the desired result according to the article I posted; pilots are still leaving faster than their replacements can be trained.

The USAF is facing a very similar (if not identical) situation. And they've thrown retention bonus after retention bonus at their pilot group without desired results. Now they're allegedly "improving" the lifestyle situation in hopes of convincing people to stay. Time will tell.

There's only so much the military can do because ultimately the needs of the service supersede the wishes of the individual.

We'll see...
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 03:52
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
Apparently, it didn't achieve the desired result according to the article I posted; pilots are still leaving faster than their replacements can be trained.

The USAF is facing a very similar (if not identical) situation. And they've thrown retention bonus after retention bonus at their pilot group without desired results. Now they're allegedly "improving" the lifestyle situation in hopes of convincing people to stay. Time will tell.

There's only so much the military can do because ultimately the needs of the service supersede the wishes of the individual.

We'll see...
Same game is playing out down in Oz.. Rumours abound that Defence HR has tried some backroom deals with the major airlines whilst claiming there is no pilot retention issue?!
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 08:46
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Pay is only part of it. The puzzle palace likes moving people around. So expect a move every 2-4 years. I want my kids to have a stable life, ever try being the new kid in school sometimes in the same year?
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 22:14
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Originally Posted by desiaviator View Post
With proposed regulatory changes to duty times and prevalent pilot shortages, one would reckon pay scales for low-time FOs would improve. Any idea where they're at?
Last I heard, Air Georgian FOs make around 30k annually; Encore's open-house indicated approx. $47/ hour to prospective FOs. Not sure if these are factual, so thought I'd ask!
There is a pilot shortage and time from licence to first job to airline is amazing. The interview is pretty much a check to see if you have a pulse these days.... but the management are still in denial that there is a shortage. I'm not sure at what point they will admit it? I think that rather than admit there is an issue and work towards resolving it they are working towards automating the job out of existence... but that will take time and it may be time they don't have.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 09:32
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Here's a recent program...not many details:

"CAE creates over 1,500 new pilots yearly over 30 cadet training programs globally, and we are thrilled to add a first Canadian cadet pilot training program to our list of curricula," said Nick Leontidis, CAE’s Group president, Civil Aviation Training Solutions.


CAE, Jazz And Seneca Launch First Cadet Pilot Training Program In Canada | Aero-News Network
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